I'm wondering because while the Sx/So subtype of 1w2 fits my ESTJ mom, she seems pretty 8ish too.
Basic Fear: Of being corrupt/evil, defective
Basic Desire: To be good, to have integrity, to be balanced
Enneagram One with a Nine-Wing: "The Idealist"
Enneagram One with a Two-Wing: "The Advocate"
Basic Fear: Of being harmed or controlled by others
Basic Desire: To protect themselves (to be in control of their own life
and destiny)
Enneagram Eight with a Seven-Wing: "The Maverick"
Enneagram Eight with a Nine-Wing: "The Bear"
Type One — The Enneagram Institute Type Eight — The Enneagram Institute Fears and desires are very different so you have to decide which is a better fit for her.
Starry and bechimo, I am changing my type back over to ENFP 7w6 Sp/So since only that type and 6w7 of the same seem to fit me. Also, based on what you two said I can see both in my mom, though. What's interesting is I can see both in my punchy abusive stepfather (he's back, but hopefully I'm moving out in less than a year and I'll be free to sort out my own issues thanks to money), as well...though he has more hang ups. Both have sharp and rigid ideas about efficiency, and are very judgey about how things should be organized and how people should act (which they base on conventionality, religion, an efficiency, in that order)...though my step-father has the tendency to debate challenges to the status quo more with his fists than his words whereas you can talk to my mom a little (though it won't get you very far). She stays so frustrated all the time I bet she'll have a heart attack one day.Being an 8w7 yourself you may be more informed in this regard than I am wtf? I think a good number of ExTJs will somewhat naturally have a bit of an "8 feel/vibe" to them...but 1s and 8s can both present with a somewhat detectable degree of anger that sits just below the surface with 1s registering with me as being far more frustrated and aggressive...sx 1s most of all which I attribute to the fact 1 is 7s stress point... but I've actually read this before. I can't remember where and subsequently won't get into it without a source...but I have most definitely read it more than once that sx 1s are some of the most frustrated the enneagram has to offer. The way to tell the two apart... Well, again keep in mind that my answers are most likely way biased...but 8s are generally clever, down-to-earth, generous individuals with amazing senses of humor in spite of the underlying anger while 1s can be a bit stingy and righteous. It's hard to readily laugh I imagine when you are so disgusted by the fact everyone is doing something wrong and need correcting...? 8s focus more on liberty and who is out to exploit and do others harm. While 1s focus their anger more on order/efficiency and who is out to break the rules/do wrong. With a 2 wing your mom is also connected to 8 however insignificant that influence may be.
That's about as unhealthy raging E1 as it gets."I have to know everything about you so I can keep you on the right path," she says.
Isn’t your Mom big into organized religion? Obviously there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to these things (unless you’re an e1 I suppose?)... but when putting all of the pieces together this would be another tick mark under e1 in my understanding/experience. The theme here is order, tradition, right and wrong, good and evil... a structure that is likely to feel to constricting/controlling/suffocating for the 8.
Starry and bechimo, I am changing my type back over to ENFP 7w6 Sp/So since only that type and 6w7 of the same seem to fit me.
@Starry @Beorn @bechimo [MENTION=33903]Crystal Winter Dream[/MENTION]
This raises the question, though:
Is she really an unhealthy Sx/So 1w2, or am I just seeing tgs unhealthy Sx/So subculture around her? I was even more of an unhealthy Sx/So 1w2 than she appears to be until I was 14 or 15, and even then, it took me till I was 20 to stop fearing I was broken or corrupted in some way, as you can remember from my post about wanting to be good.
Call me crazy but I suspect you still fear you are broken or corrupt in some way. Why? I'm not sure. If it were up to me I'd attribute my understanding to my profound insight that borders on psychic ability... But I recognize it may have more to do with everything you say in every post you create.
I don't know what the hell type your Mom is...but your's has always been obvious. Another thing you may not have taken into account is your own negative connection to e1 and how that has corrupted or altered your understanding of your Mom, yourself...and the world around you. From the little I have allowed myself to read on the topic of your Mom...I don't see why she isn't an e1. But I never lose sight of the fact you are a stressed-out, unhealthy 7...and whereas as an sx dom I am more likely to get all "holier than thou" when connecting poorly to 1...you get all "I suck, I'm bad, are you afraid of me?" <-And that makes it all the more tricky to get a true feel for your Mom's type.
IOW...I'm sure your Mom and your religious upbringing has a lot to do with you worrying about being bad. But it's a destination you would likely arrive at all on your own.
Let me guess: you had an e1 influence in childhood.
I have a hypothesis that children are usually the integration of their parents.
Did you understand what I was saying in my post? The only reason I mentioned myself was so you could recognize how a stressful connection to e1 manifests in me...because we are both 7s.
The entirety of my message is this: I think it is reasonable that you wish to understand your Mom in an effort to try and understand yourself but I don’t think it is necessarily necessary in that I feel that in doing so you are merely continuing to try and sidestep the pain that is just you...and you alone. Your own doing. For regardless of who your Mom is...or if you had a different Mom altogether or were raised by monkeys or kings... I think you would have quite likely still have ended up at “im bad...I’m doing everything wrong.â€
And my childhood appears to support the perfection of what I say and fails your bad hypothesisas I had many enneagram influences during my upbringing...but 1 was fairly weak.
When you say pain, you mean deprivation, right?
No...I mean pain.
I’d rather not wallow in pain if I can just enjoy food and drink and travel the rest of my days and not worry about it. I can’t fix it, anyway.
Edit: I should probably put this stuff on my blog.
And while you are at it could you put the above in a signature quote for the next time you and/or everyone else on the planet decides you aren’t a 7.
The thing is...is you are wallowing...you just don’t see it because you decide you are someone totally different every freakin day and proceed to design an entirely different life plan. The extent of the pain you try and fail to outrun on a daily basis is the cause of your profound distraction and gigantic mood swings. You continue to wallow and will continue on from here doing the same until you claim it.
Of course I have not seen your mother enough to really say 100%, but this may help you tell. straight from enneagram's page.
Type One—Levels of Development
Healthy Levels
Level 1 (At Their Best): Become extraordinarily wise and discerning. By accepting what is, they become transcendentally realistic, knowing the best action to take in each moment. Humane, inspiring, and hopeful: the truth will be heard.
Level 2: Conscientious with strong personal convictions: they have an intense sense of right and wrong, personal religious and moral values. Wish to be rational, reasonable, self-disciplined, mature, moderate in all things.
Level 3: Extremely principled, always want to be fair, objective, and ethical: truth and justice primary values. Sense of responsibility, personal integrity, and of having a higher purpose often make them teachers and witnesses to the truth.
Average Levels
Level 4: Dissatisfied with reality, they become high-minded idealists, feeling that it is up to them to improve everything: crusaders, advocates, critics. Into "causes" and explaining to others how things "ought" to be.
Level 5: Afraid of making a mistake: everything must be consistent with their ideals. Become orderly and well-organized, but impersonal, puritanical, emotionally constricted, rigidly keeping their feelings and impulses in check. Often workaholics—"anal-compulsive," punctual, pedantic, and fastidious.
Level 6: Highly critical both of self and others: picky, judgmental, perfectionistic. Very opinionated about everything: correcting people and badgering them to "do the right thing"—as they see it. Impatient, never satisfied with anything unless it is done according to their prescriptions. Moralizing, scolding, abrasive, and indignantly angry.
Unhealthy Levels
Level 7: Can be highly dogmatic, self-righteous, intolerant, and inflexible. Begin dealing in absolutes: they alone know "The Truth." Everyone else is wrong: very severe in judgments, while rationalizing own actions.
Level 8: Become obsessive about imperfection and the wrongdoing of others, although they may fall into contradictory actions, hypocritically doing the opposite of what they preach.
Level 9: Become condemnatory toward others, punitive and cruel to rid themselves of wrongdoers. Severe depressions, nervous breakdowns, and suicide attempts are likely. Generally corresponds to the Obsessive-Compulsive and Depressive personality disorders.
Type Eight—Levels of Development
Healthy Levels
Level 1 (At Their Best): Become self-restrained and magnanimous, merciful and forbearing, mastering self through their self-surrender to a higher authority. Courageous, willing to put self in serious jeopardy to achieve their vision and have a lasting influence. May achieve true heroism and historical greatness.
Level 2: Self-assertive, self-confident, and strong: have learned to stand up for what they need and want. A resourceful, "can do" attitude and passionate inner drive.
Level 3: Decisive, authoritative, and commanding: the natural leader others look up to. Take initiative, make things happen: champion people, provider, protective, and honorable, carrying others with their strength.
Average Levels
Level 4: Self-sufficiency, financial independence, and having enough resources are important concerns: become enterprising, pragmatic, "rugged individualists," wheeler-dealers. Risk-taking, hardworking, denying own emotional needs.
Level 5: Begin to dominate their environment, including others: want to feel that others are behind them, supporting their efforts. Swaggering, boastful, forceful, and expansive: the "boss" whose word is law. Proud, egocentric, want to impose their will and vision on everything, not seeing others as equals or treating them with respect.
Level 6: Become highly combative and intimidating to get their way: confrontational, belligerent, creating adversarial relationships. Everything a test of wills, and they will not back down. Use threats and reprisals to get obedience from others, to keep others off balance and insecure. However, unjust treatment makes others fear and resent them, possibly also band together against them.
Unhealthy Levels
Level 7: Defying any attempt to control them, become completely ruthless, dictatorial, "might makes right." The criminal and outlaw, renegade, and con-artist. Hard-hearted, immoral and potentially violent.
Level 8: Develop delusional ideas about their power, invincibility, and ability to prevail: megalomania, feeling omnipotent, invulnerable. Recklessly over-extending self.
Level 9: If they get in danger, they may brutally destroy everything that has not conformed to their will rather than surrender to anyone else. Vengeful, barbaric, murderous. Sociopathic tendencies. Generally corresponds to the Antisocial Personality Disorder.