Breaking Bad

[Kalach]

I hope they are smart enough to let episode 12 continue at the end of episode 11 and eventually turn Walt into the Ãœbermensch. If it all breaks apart now, if morality prevails and the boy learns of his father's actions, I should be very dissatisfied.

It should be that intuition has free reign now. That should be what Walt's reaction indicates. It should be that he sees Skylar in a different, more impersonal light now. But she's already moving to take charge. Walt's screwed.

He has to start killing people. It's been his solution in the past.



That's not the Ubermensch though. That wouldn't make the jaw drop in the watching.

Or would it?



I'm jinxing the show by speculating. I shall leave Walt to his own devices.

 

[Nicodemus]

It should be that intuition has free reign now. That should be what Walt's reaction indicates. It should be that he sees Skylar in a different, more impersonal light now. But she's already moving to take charge. Walt's screwed.

He has to start killing people. It's been his solution in the past.



That's not the Ubermensch though. That wouldn't make the jaw drop in the watching.

Or would it?



I'm jinxing the show by speculating. I shall leave Walt to his own devices.

If he steps out of his circumstances, re-evaluates his situation, what Skyler is likely to do (take charge of 'the family', with or without him, and leave), and then makes a reasonable decision taking into account on all the things he has done so far, he might just become the Ãœbermensch insofar as he makes his own rules and sets his own goals (which will be necessary once Skyler is gone). I fear the producers will not go there. But one thing is clear: Gus needs to go.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Have you seen some in advance or something? I'm fully up-to-date with what has aired (and there are only two left this season for me). I'm not sure what "(this season ooh open-ended statement yet again - what season has 6 shows?)" means exactly. Are referring to season one? That had six or seven episodes. All the others are 12. And next season is 16 episodes, and will be the show's final season.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll expand a little on my opinion.

The first season had 7 (not 6) shows. As a pilot season, that's not too uncommon, testing things out. Season 2 was 13 episodes. Season 3 was 13 episodes, and this season, season 4 again 13 episodes. Aug 14 the season was renewed to season 5, as you say 16 episodes - prior to this renewal, it was understood that this season WAS likely the end however. The promotions changed from the end of "Breaking Bad" to the end of this season of "Breaking Bad". That's what I meant with open-ended up there.

Season 1: set up of all the characters. Extremely well done. You are introduced to each, each with texture and motivation.

Season 2: evolution of the characters - enmeshment with the plot. Walter White still has a human side, but it is faltering, and that's OK, and not OK.

Season 3:

Contemplate season 3 for a minute. WW is the driving force, and his character development has started to falter. WW is seemingly getting stupider rather than smarter. He's learning nothing from his past misadventures. He alternates between desperate and angry, mostly angry, and going slightly crazy. He alienates Jesse further and further; the credibility that they would be "loyal" to each other is starting to be strained. Walt's allowing Jane to die should at some point draw karmic retribution on a personal level too, but aside from the crash and a few episodes, the huge tragedy is wiped off the map. No more fall-out? There should be. And all they do is go to the lab, go to the lab, go to the lab. One day of taping what they do should eliminate the need to keep WW and Jesse alive at all. Yet they hold some kind of "power"? Illogical. And an episode about a fly ... the mid to end of this season for me, is where it started to slip. For all the illogic of people, there are MOL trackable reasons why people do what they do. They're starting to do things that bely the original premise from season 1. And increasingly, though I like the character of Saul Goodman, a lot, he has become the wonderful plot equivalent of a magic wand. Write something plot-wise that needs a quick fix? Just call Saul! He can magically fill ALL your plot holes!

Season 4:

Confrontations, outbursts, confrontations, outbursts - there's hardly a single intelligent thing Walt has done all season so far. Think when was the last time you saw WW smile? When did he show any of his previous abilities to passively "go along to get along" whilst trying to mastermind something behind the scenes? He's now all reaction and temper tantrum. He bullies Jesse to an extent the belies any loyalty to him, and thus Jesse extending affection to him at this point is strained. When Jesse asks him for help, and WW yells at him, why hasn't he poisoned Gus, and gets in a fight with him? IDK, it just smacks of writing on the fly. You have to have a thread, a continuity somewhere in your characters. They can do all sorts of crazy things, but if you set up the story that someone has intelligence or compassion, you have to fully explain why they would just lose it, why it would vanish. To me, the narrative is insufficient to explain why WW's character is becoming what it's becoming, and to me, it's becoming too one-dimensional. He's not evolving, he's devolving. Sure, he's like a cork waiting to pop. Let's just kill Gus - what a mastermind plan that is *yawn*. Gus has been intelligent all along - his character doesn't deserve to be taken out by WW. And again, plot problems? Just call Saul! Unless they pull something fabulous out of their butts for the last two episodes ...

But these are just my opinions. They're not fully fleshed out to explain all the reasons I feel this way, and to do so would take more effort than a show on TV deserves from me atm.

But I am glad you are enjoying the show, if I didn't get hooked obviously I wouldn't be tuned in either.

Fan and critical support of the show is as strong if not stronger than ever. It's worth sticking with and deciding on your own.

I agree. It's worth the watch.

 

[Zarathustra]

how does everyone feel about the progression of skyler's character? she has been really pissing me off in the last two seasons and i want so badly to like her again!

I liked her for about twenty seconds.

 

[PeaceBaby]

My guess:

Skyler is going to be the new Gustavo ... wait and see, wait and see!

Oh, and I forgot to put Saul in my list: ENTP!

 

[Zarathustra]

My guess: Skyler is going to be the new Gustavo ... wait and see, wait and see!

Should that have been in some spoiler tags?

I have no idea who Gustavo is...

Or if he's even a reference to 'Breaking Bad' or something else entirely...

 

[PeaceBaby]

I think Jesse is an ESFP. Very impulsive, rash, physical, often throwing himself into action and chaos without thinking of long-term consequences. He's also shown a side that's ethical, sensitive, and prone to deep guilt over his own actions and moral outrage over others'. He's been pretty troubled for much of the series, which may be why he doesn't show that spark and warmth that ESFPs usually do, and sometimes seems more introverted or flat.

He's got an introspective side that comes from leading with Fi though I think. ISFP's often come across as being pretty extroverted, they are probably the most extroverted introvert IMO.

I'm not at all convinced Skyler is a Feeler of any sort. One of the comments from an online recap pointed out that a major weakness in Skyler's plans and schemes is in predicting people's reactions. This is typically a strength of NFJs, but Skyler doesn't have it. She plans things out in detail, she sees a lot of possibilities and covers all her bases and crunches numbers....but she slips up when people's unanticipated feelings, behaviour or reactions throw things off. I'll put some specific examples below in spoiler tags (they are from the end of season 3 right up to where we are now):

Yes these are good points ... I think they set her character up as an ENFJ though, but it's not remaining consistent, somehow?

Another example: she seemed to expect Walt Jr. would be more excited about the modest used car she'd bought him for his birthday...after he'd had the Challenger returned at her insistence.

But that could still be Fe - what will people think when they see this car? It doesn't fit the "story" ...

Finally, the made-up gambling story. It was quite impressive how she'd pulled it out of thin air, and it was so detailed and fleshed out, and how she used it to explain all the oddities and secrecy surrounding Walt's behavior and why they had enough money to pay for Hank's physical therapy. And it's served them well enough so far...but she wasn't expecting the reaction she got. She made it out to be this shameful secret and tried to explain that Walt felt bad and didn't want to talk about it. But the family thought it was impressive and sort of cool (even though they grudgingly left it alone after Walt stressed how very, very ashamed he was). It didn't ruin the story, but it seemed to create some awkwardness and puzzlement, and in time it might play a role in arousing Hank's suspicions or causing Walt Jr. to question him.

No, that could be Fe too - Fe is very resourceful in matters of people-stuff, it was a good story in that it could be believed within the context of the situation, from the people and practical POV's.

From your list - yes, I could see Mike as an ISTJ as well.

For Walt to succeed at any of the things he does, he has to alter the circumstance of pretty much everyone else. Season two has a lot of these moments and maybe is even an examination of them. Especially near the end of the season. No spoilers.

Yes, if something doesn't happen soon, he needs to hand in the INTJ card ...

 

[shoshana]

Should that have been in some spoiler tags?

I have no idea who Gustavo is...

Or if he's even a reference to 'Breaking Bad' or something else entirely...

are you following the new season...

 

[Zarathustra]

are you following the new season...

I'm only on season 2.

Watching on netflix.

 

[shoshana]

I'm only on season 2.

Watching on netflix.

dont ask questions then. she is referring to a character in the recent season.

you should prolly stay clear of this thread until you are caught up ;P

i'm addicted. enjoy!

 

[Xenon]

I have no idea who Gustavo is...

Or if he's even a reference to 'Breaking Bad' or something else entirely...

Gustavo is Gus. Same guy.

 

[Zarathustra]

dont ask questions then. she is referring to a character in the recent season.

you should prolly stay clear of this thread until you are caught up ;P

i'm addicted. enjoy!

yeah, i figured.

i think i'm doing alright, so long as people keep using spoiler tags properly (she and i already worked that one out).

yeah, it's pretty f'ing good.

i think i liked season 1 more than season 2, though, at least thus far (thru 5 episodes).

 

[Zarathustra]

Gustavo is Gus. Same guy.

Oh, cool.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

OK. I just found this thread. I'm totally addicted to this show. It's a piece of art.

I can't type everyone, but I always thought both Walt and Gus were INTJs. I like seeing them battle it out with their über strategist skills... so INTJ. Though I think Walt let's his pride get the better of him in a way that Gus does not.

 

[Zarathustra]

Can you put some frickin spoiler tags up there, ENFP? @Esoteric Wench

I got til it said "battle it out" and then averted my gaze.



***

Anyway, was gunna say, just got through Season 2, Episode 6, and I guess I'm starting to see the INTJ in Walt.

That convo with Gretchen at the restaurant was a pretty key moment. There were a number of them in this episode, though. Oh, and I guess in the last one, too, when he tells Jesse to "take care of" the situation. The way he did both of those things, it feels like you're starting to see a grand vision forming inside of him, albeit almost subconsciously. Is he an INTJ who let his grand vision go (i.e., whatever happened that caused him to lose Gray Matter), and this show is about him being forced to now get back in touch with that essential part of himself? Did he go ISTJ, and now he must reclaim his INTJhood?

 

[Kalach]

If he steps out of his circumstances, re-evaluates his situation, what Skyler is likely to do (take charge of 'the family', with or without him, and leave), and then makes a reasonable decision taking into account on all the things he has done so far, he might just become the Ãœbermensch insofar as he makes his own rules and sets his own goals (which will be necessary once Skyler is gone). I fear the producers will not go there. But one thing is clear: Gus needs to go.

My guess:

Skyler is going to be the new Gustavo ... wait and see, wait and see!

There's a time bomb been planted though. Right now Walt is on a ledge about to have no one left to turn to. There're wildcards like Saul and Hank, but neither of those are workable unless Walt positively decides to let either one or the other of them control what he can do. But here's the thing: in episode ten, Mike was going to shoot Jesse. The three of them, Gus, Mike and Jesse, get out of the cartel house, they're in a hurry, Jesse finds them a car, Mike dumps Gus in the back, and then someone (Hector's kid?) is running out of the house and interrupts Mike in what looked a whole lot like pointing his gun at the back of Jesse's head. Mike's out of commission for "a week", but when he comes back and tells Jesse about what was really going to happen, and tell him he will, probably, there's Jesse driven back into Walt's arms and Walt has a new lease of life. Eventually Walt replaces Gus and Jesse replaces Mike.

If instead it's Skyler who replaces Gus and then probably Walt replacing Mike, that moves the Walt & Skyler show into a bigger house and the show goes on, but...

oh god, it's true.

 

[PeaceBaby]

[MENTION=5731]Kalach[/MENTION]:

The ÃœberMOMsch

 

[Zarathustra]

I hate you guys.

 

[Kalach]

I actually don't like speculating about this show that much. I used to be a big tv show mythology booster (*sigh*, Xena), but there's something about Walt were I prefer to see him surprise me. The kind of reactions he has are frequently, in strict terms, dumb, but I sort of recognise that dumbness as being a J trait, an unwillingness to face the moment, and that's fine. Boring on the whole, but fine. Because from time to time he shows off the other side. Or I hope he does. The side where all things, even the worst things, can be thought, and sometimes influence action.

Season 2, Episode 12, for example.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Aww Xena ...