Avatar: The Last Airbender

[skylights]

No, you're the one who quoted me out of context and then made a serious leap of logic. To say that ESFPs like to have fun (even if that was ALL that I said, which it wasn't) does not imply that other types hate it.

Bad joke was bad.

And no, all the benders do not necessarily seem Se. Katara and Zuko, for instance, don't seem Se to me. Aang seems Se because he constantly does things like impulisively slide down random chutes for the physical fun of it, or impulsively join a school in the middle of the Fire Nation. It's all impulse, making a splash, acting on physical impulses in the moment, which is Se (and which Aang has in spades.) Where is his Ne?

wow, sorry, i wasn't trying to personally attack you. when you said "he likes to have fun" in the first place it sounded like you were making a distinction from ENFPs because the rest of your point for aang was about why he's ESFP instead of ENFP. i'm sorry for misinterpreting.

you're still attributing stuff to Se that's just E/Pe though. all Ps are impulsive and do stuff just for fun, especially ExxP.

anyway, i said Ne because sometimes aang gets all N-y.

he's very philosophical and likes to disconnect, which is why I'm sort of thinking this over ESFP

yeah, that was kind of my thought too. though maybe that's just the fact that he's the avatar and has a heavy load on his hands that no one else can really fully understand or deal with. on the other hand, i thought aang joined the fire nation school because someone thought he was a kid and supposed to be in school, not just to make a splash.

i agree that aang seems more Se at times. i haven't watched every episode, and maybe i am missing some key behaviors. and maybe bending to me always just seems a little Se because my Se sucks ass and i don't really understand it well.


anyway does aang remind anyone else of tommy from rugrats?

 

[entropie]

I havent seen the movie yet but I know the cartoon and since I would be totally out of my mind to tyape fictional characters, I only wanted to say: Toph rocks !

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

I havent seen the movie yet but I know the cartoon and since I would be totally out of my mind to tyape fictional characters, I only wanted to say: Toph rocks !

In the movie everyone is ISTJ.

 

[Craft]

So, anyone wanna take a shot at typing the characters? I absolutely LOVE this show. The characters are brilliant, and their friendships are timeless. Everytime an episode ends and I see the credits I feel tingles all over my body. Such a simple yet beautiful show.

I'm not completely confident in my guesses. I didn't go through and match up their dominant and secondary functions to see if it works.

Aang - ENFP (Ne/Fi)
It seems that the ENFPs love to get that extra squeeze out of life, and Aang does just that. He always finds some weird or strange way to play a game or have fun. Also, being from the Air nation, he does have ENFP-like worries about being controlled as seen in the teams stay in the structured Ba Sing Se.

Kitara - ESFJ (Fe/Si)
Kitara absolutely believes in helping others, even if it means self-sacrificing her needs. "I will never, ever turn my back on people that need me!" I wanted to type her as an introvert at first, but I realized that she was more Fe than she was Fi. In the episode where Zuko joins the party, she threatened to kill him if he did anything fishy, which is very unlike her. This reminds me of my ESFJ mother who has said similar things to people who have threatened/hurt her children.

Sokka - ENTP (Ne/Ti)
I wasn't quite sure what Sokka was until I realized how much he relied on ingenuity and how he was definitely the "inventor" type. He sees a world of possibilities, and when under pressure he can quickly use his Ti to come up with a working plan.

Toph - ESTP (Se/Ti)
She desires to do what she pleases and is not too happy with compulsory activity. This is simply another guess.

Zuko - ISTJ (Si/Te)
He is very serious about his duties and responsibilities, and is a very serious person in general.

Uncle Iroh - ESFJ (Fe/Si)
Just a guess.

Azula - ENTJ (Te/Ni)
Oh man... She simply radiates being an unhealthy ENTJ. She has a strong desire for dominance, and seems to always be planning what could be. She relies on empirical thought first, and then lets her intuition fill in the blanks when she is planning. She is a very unique villain.

Ty Lee - ESFP (Se/Fi)
Honestly, what else could she be? She lives for the moment and enjoys her good share of fun. She has in inner emotional flame, shown to use in The Beach, when she expresses how she was afraid she would never stand out from her 6 sisters and would always be part of a "set". She often flirts with boys and usually has a group of them surrounding her, hinting at her fear of being alone.

Mai - INTP (Ti/Ne)
Haha, I finally found my own example of an INTP. She prefers her solitude and is willing not to put too much effort into anything, as seen when she refuses to chase after Kitara and Sokka through the slime waste in the episode The Drill. I was torn between if she was an ISTP or an INTP, but she never expresses any kind of Se habits so I decided on INTP.

Feel free to correct me. I'm more concerned about getting them typed correctly than being right. I like relating the MBTI to anime/cartoon characters since they seem to be a little on the melodramatic side, letting their true colors shine through. It's easier for me to recall what a stereotypical ENTP is like when I think of Sokka versus thinking of Alexander the Great, whom I know nothing about.

This looks good. but even if it does, here's mine:

Kitara - ENFJ. not sure but I'm remembering some moments of insights from her that credits ingenuity rather than 'working on past methods'.

Toph - INTJ. not sure how to explain..

Uncle Iroh - seems as easygoing as ENFP or maybe INFP, or INFJ. N because of all his abstract 'teachings'.

Mai - ISTP. she doesn't express Ne "habits". I'd say it would be easier to 'notice' Ne habits rather than Se ones due to the 'novelty' of Ne activity.

The rest, I can't disagree.

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

Kitara - ENFJ. not sure but I'm remembering some moments of insights from her that credits ingenuity rather than 'working on past methods'.

Toph - INTJ. not sure how to explain..

Uncle Iroh - seems as easygoing as ENFP or maybe INFP, or INFJ. N because of all his abstract 'teachings'.

Katara I can see as an E, though I think she's more I, but I think overall she's more S than N. She can be very idealistic, but I think she has more of that nurturing mothering role that you get with SFJs. They even had an entire episode on how strict and motherly she was!

Toph - How is she INTJ lol? Some characters can occasionally seem either INTJ or ISTP for some reason, but Toph is a total STP. She's never inventive or anything. She has a tough hard work attitude I suppose, but that's mainly because it's her field of interest, common among STPs, and other times she's quite lazy. She also seems I. A lot of the time she just sits disconnectedly in the background and she's not really a leader or anything. Rather independent and keeps to herself most of the time, popping in and making sarcastic comments.

Iroh - I think he's easily an P now, but I think in his earlier life, when he was general of the fire nation, he was more of an INFJ. He lost his J drive when he retired I guess!

 

[Craft]

Katara I can see as an E, though I think she's more I, but I think overall she's more S than N. She can be very idealistic, but I think she has more of that nurturing mothering role that you get with SFJs. They even had an entire episode on how strict and motherly she was!

And ENFJ's aren't as commonly strict and motherly? Also, consider episode 47 in book three. She gets into detail about Toph's motivations and feelings. Ni.

Toph - How is she INTJ lol? Some characters can occasionally seem either INTJ or ISTP for some reason, but Toph is a total STP. She's never inventive or anything. She has a tough hard work attitude I suppose, but that's mainly because it's her field of interest, common among STPs, and other times she's quite lazy. She also seems I. A lot of the time she just sits disconnectedly in the background and she's not really a leader or anything. Rather independent and keeps to herself most of the time, popping in and making sarcastic comments.

She seems rather goal-oriented but I'm mainly thinking about the way she behaves: she shows Fi rather than Fe. She definitely seems way too rambunctious but I'm thinking manifestation of inferior Se.

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

And ENFJ's aren't as commonly strict and motherly? Also, consider episode 47 in book three. She gets into detail about Toph's motivations and feelings. Ni.


She seems rather goal-oriented but I'm mainly thinking about the way she behaves: she shows Fi rather than Fe. She definitely seems way too rambunctious but I'm thinking manifestation of inferior Se.

Maybe you're right. Katara just seems to have a lot of Si, but I can see how she would be an N.

Toph on the other hand I can't see as INTJ at all. She doesn't really think too far into the future and I can't think of any time she's shown Ni, the INTJ dominant function. ISTPs often like to have a plan of action, but not really in the long term. Toph shows little in the way of Te either. She doesn't guide or command people. Most of the time she wants to keep to herself and take care of herself, and let the others do the same. She comp[romises this for the group but it's still basically there. I think she has strong extraverted sensing. A lover of action and excitement and often likes to live in the moment. Her love of earthbending, particularly in contest, shows this, and she makes lightning fast decisions in them, and finds it exhillirating.

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

I was thinking and I think Zuko is probably more INFJ. If you think about it, he has a lot of Fe. He spends most of the series trying to be accepted by the dominant influence in his life, his father, then Team Avatar, then his Uncle. His idea of his honour and destiny shifts frequently and he always sides with whoever his feels dutiful towards, even if he doesn't agree. Except that one time where he spoke up and got his face burnt, but after that, he kept trying to get his acceptance back.

 

[Craft]

I was thinking and I think Zuko is probably more INFJ. If you think about it, he has a lot of Fe. He spends most of the series trying to be accepted by the dominant influence in his life, his father, then Team Avatar, then his Uncle. His idea of his honour and destiny shifts frequently and he always sides with whoever his feels dutiful towards, even if he doesn't agree. Except that one time where he spoke up and got his face burnt, but after that, he kept trying to get his acceptance back.

Hm...Let's think in terms of Fe vs. Fi. Does he really orient his values based on a collective understanding? Or does he follow more of an internal value, which could also be affected by the external?

I actually believe that his 'shifting internal conflict' is Fi. It gets very difficult for him to maintain clarity, but, when he makes up his mind, his principles become as hard as steel---as oppose to the rather 'situational' Fe. In addition, I don't see him showing any positive attention towards ethics and society's delicate mannerisms but what I can definitely see is an understanding/consideration towards the overall "technical" system found within society's hierarchal government system. This then is a matter of collective organization or in other words, Te.

Now, if said proposition is true, on what nature of value does he feel obligated to? The traditional Si perhaps?

 

[Orangey]

Hm...Let's think in terms of Fe vs. Fi. Does he really orient his values based on a collective understanding? Or does he follow more of an internal value, which could also be affected by the external?

I actually believe that his 'shifting internal conflict' is Fi. It gets very difficult for him to maintain clarity, but, when he makes up his mind, his principles become as hard as steel---as oppose to the rather 'situational' Fe. In addition, I don't see him showing any positive attention towards ethics and society's delicate mannerisms but what I can definitely see is an understanding/consideration towards the overall "technical" system found within society's hierarchal government system. This then is a matter of collective organization or in other words, Te.

Now, if said proposition is true, on what nature of value does he feel obligated to? The traditional Si perhaps?

I agree, which is why I maintain that he is ISTJ.

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

I see what you mean with the Si, and that his feeling is more difficult to change, particularly in a situation by situation basis, but I think he is more INFP than ISTJ. His feeling seems paramount, so perhaps it is his tertiary Si causing it.

I think you have a good point, but I think this is one of those difficult situations where 2 types have the same function set and it is difficult to decide which is stronger, like Barney in HIMYM.

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

BTW What type do you think Jet is? I was thinking ENTJ.

 

[Orangey]

No, no, no. Jet is most definitely an ESTP. Where did you get ENTJ from?

 

[Craft]

I see what you mean with the Si, and that his feeling is more difficult to change, particularly in a situation by situation basis, but I think he is more INFP than ISTJ. His feeling seems paramount, so perhaps it is his tertiary Si causing it.

I think you have a good point, but I think this is one of those difficult situations where 2 types have the same function set and it is difficult to decide which is stronger, like Barney in HIMYM.

Ahh...so we're dealing with hierarchy now.

Let's look at the two arrangements, mainly the relationship between Pi and Pe.

1. Si Te Fi Ne
2. Fi Ne Si Te

------

What does a dominant Si mean? Or rather, what does a dominant Pi mean?

A type of thinking heavily focused on perception reliant on introversion, on our independence of the external.

Does Zuko have this?

I think Zuko does have this very focused and introverted view. I think he is always looking at things he must achieve, instead of always being distracted by the external stimulation surrounding him. Try to relate him to Ang who is a Pe dominant---one who is always finding himself taken elsewhere and finding it hard to "introvert" his perception.

-----

I think the center point of your argument is his heightened regard for his values, but I think you confuse this with his 'worldview', his Si. Pi dominants wish to fulfill what they stored in their primary function, it is, after all, their most preferred function. And the emphasis on Pi further strengthens what values lie stored within "Pi".

Or try this question: Where is his auxiliary Pe?

 

[Craft]

BTW What type do you think Jet is? I was thinking ENTJ.

I don't remember this character well. But my search in google leads me to this:

The bamboo leaf(?) somewhat signifies a preference for the present environment.

If he is extroverted, then ExxP.

From the scrutinizing eyes, Te or Ti. If Pe dom is true, then Ti. ExTP.

From the leaf, an Se material, then ESTP.

Hah. my logic is supreme.

I remember him leading and seeking revenge, but I think he can't get rid of his playfulness(?)

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

Ahh...so we're dealing with hierarchy now.

Let's look at the two arrangements, mainly the relationship between Pi and Pe.

1. Si Te Fi Ne
2. Fi Ne Si Te

------

What does a dominant Si mean? Or rather, what does a dominant Pi mean?

A type of thinking heavily focused on perception reliant on introversion, on our independence of the external.

Does Zuko have this?

I think Zuko does have this very focused and introverted view. I think he is always looking at things he must achieve, instead of always being distracted by the external stimulation surrounding him. Try to relate him to Ang who is a Pe dominant---one who is always finding himself taken elsewhere and finding it hard to "introvert" his perception.

-----

I think the center point of your argument is his heightened regard for his values, but I think you confuse this with his 'worldview', his Si. Pi dominants wish to fulfill what they stored in their primary function, it is, after all, their most preferred function. And the emphasis on Pi further strengthens what values lie stored within "Pi".

Or try this question: Where is his auxiliary Pe?

Hm... maybe you're right. He doesn't seem to have an awful lot of Ne. I just sense so much Fi. He always acts on how he feels, like when he challenges Azula to an Agni Kai even though it would be more strategic (Te) to run away, and when he goes to find the Southern Raiders because he understands how she is feeling and sympathises with that view. And his Te seems to be more in the background. Iroh tells him "You never think these things through!" showing how he acts on his emotional impulses. His goals are idealistic and personal as well, but maybe his Si is causing him to tend to revert to what he's been taught. Maybe he's an INFP with a strong tertiary Si. I'm undecided but still leaning towards INFP.

As for Jet, he seems Fi driven, always wanting to get back at the Fire Nation and refusing to listen to others opinions. He has Te organisational skills as well. He has no sense of tradition and is always strategising on how to defeat the fire nation, even if it means hurting others.

 

[Craft]

Hm... maybe you're right. He doesn't seem to have an awful lot of Ne. I just sense so much Fi. He always acts on how he feels, like when he challenges Azula to an Agni Kai even though it would be more strategic (Te) to run away, and when he goes to find the Southern Raiders because he understands how she is feeling and sympathises with that view. And his Te seems to be more in the background. Iroh tells him "You never think these things through!" showing how he acts on his emotional impulses. His goals are idealistic and personal as well, but maybe his Si is causing him to tend to revert to what he's been taught. Maybe he's an INFP with a strong tertiary Si. I'm undecided but still leaning towards INFP.

So the argument now is that because he's not very strategic, he doesn't prioritize Te? Couldn't he just be a rather incompetent but quick decision maker?

And I sincerely don't think it's about "F" here, I see his 'action based on feeling' as a hint on how much he prioritizes his Pi. It's not because he acts on how he feels, but rather he acts on what he sees he must act upon. In other words, emotional consideration is below his goal. Redemption and Honor are things that can be 'seen' without emotion; on the other hand, they can be solely seen as things of value.

As for Jet, he seems Fi driven, always wanting to get back at the Fire Nation and refusing to listen to others opinions. He has Te organisational skills as well. He has no sense of tradition and is always strategising on how to defeat the fire nation, even if it means hurting others.

From memory, I find him too distracted and relaxed to be ENTJ. Fe Fi Te or Ti, all types are capable of wanting 'revenge' or valuing something.

 

[Orangey]

So the argument now is that because he's not very strategic, he doesn't prioritize Te? Couldn't he just be a rather incompetent but quick decision maker?

And I sincerely don't think it's about "F" here, I see his 'action based on feeling' as a hint on how much he prioritizes his Pi. It's not because he acts on how he feels, but rather he acts on what he sees he must act upon. In other words, emotional consideration is below his goal. Redemption and Honor are things that can be 'seen' without emotion; on the other hand, they can be solely seen as things of value.


From memory, I find him too distracted and relaxed to be ENTJ. Fe Fi Te or Ti, all types are capable of wanting 'revenge' or valuing something.

Agreed.

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

Yeah, I agree on Zuko as ISTJ now, I think.

From memory, I find him too distracted and relaxed to be ENTJ. Fe Fi Te or Ti, all types are capable of wanting 'revenge' or valuing something.

But I still don't think Jet is an ESTP. He's too much of a long term planner and doesn't seem to indulge much in Se. It's not like he goes out having fun during the series or anything. His entire focus is on managing his team and leading them in his long-term plan to defeat the fire nation, or at least do as much as they can. And his Fi definitely seems stronger than his Fe. He puts it on sometimes to seem diplomatic, but he is dead set in his ways. It takes being defeated and frozen to a tree and the collapse of his entire group to realise he's done anything wrong. NTJs can often get caught up in their Ni/Fi vision and not be able to see that they might be wrong. He LOOKS laid back at times, but he is always just waiting for another mission. He wasn't really 'distracted' at all. And I realise you were joking, but really, it takes more than "He has a leaf in his mouth" to say he is an ESTP. I'm sure you can be an N and still put leaves in your mouth.

I think he is one of those people who appear ESTP on the surface, but functionwise are rather different.

 

[Orangey]

But I still don't think Jet is an ESTP. He's too much of a long term planner and doesn't seem to indulge much in Se. It's not like he goes out having fun during the series or anything. His entire focus is on managing his team and leading them in his long-term plan to defeat the fire nation, or at least do as much as they can. And his Fi definitely seems stronger than his Fe. He puts it on sometimes to seem diplomatic, but he is dead set in his ways. It takes being defeated and frozen to a tree and the collapse of his entire group to realise he's done anything wrong. NTJs can often get caught up in their Ni/Fi vision and not be able to see that they might be wrong. He LOOKS laid back at times, but he is always just waiting for another mission. He wasn't really 'distracted' at all. And I realise you were joking, but really, it takes more than "He has a leaf in his mouth" to say he is an ESTP. I'm sure you can be an N and still put leaves in your mouth.

I think he is one of those people who appear ESTP on the surface, but functionwise are rather different.

What long term plans did he have? Seeking revenge on the Fire Nation was not a plan...it was his goal, which was fairly petty in and of itself. And he went about accomplishing his goal by using small-scale tactics such as robbing and brutalizing old men and burning down small Fire Nation-occupied towns full of innocent citizens. There was no strategy nor any long-range planning involved AT ALL. If there had been, then perhaps he would have thought of better ways to ultimately defeat the Fire Nation rather than spending his time trolling the locals.

I don't really see how you missed his Se, either. I mean, all he ever did was look for opportunities to take action, and that is nothing other than pure Se. You misunderstand what Se is if you think it's only about "having fun." When he first saved Aang and company, he scanned around and took advantage of the available resources in the camp. When he beat that old Fire Nation man up, he took the opportunity to rob him of his money and supplies. When Aang and company showed up, he took advantage of their apparent naivete and used them to help mass murder a town. When he met Zuko on the boat to Ba Sing Sei, he took advantage of Zuko's apparent dissatisfaction with the food to recruit him into his theft scheme. When he realized that Zuko and Iroh were Fire Nation, he was so impatient to move into action that he stormed in and accused them without any evidence or regard for the potential consequences. All of these things were done in the moment, on impulse, and often did not even directly serve to further his own goal (e.g., he would have been killing more Earth Nation people than Fire Nation by destroying the town, and he would have alienated the Airbender, who is apparently key to taking down the Fire Nation.)

As for your claims about him being "dead set in his ways" as a result of Ni/Fi, it seems as though you're ignoring the fact that many (if not all) types are stubborn, especially when it comes to things that they believe in or feel to be right. I don't see why an ESTP would be any less stubborn than an ENTJ in that regard.

Finally, he comes off more as a hot-headed opportunist (ESTP) than a cool-headed strategist (ENTJ.) Add to that his snake-oil salesman-like charm (tertiary Fe), his deep-seated paranoia (inferior Ni), and his overall badass vigilante vibe, and he seems even more clearly ESTP.