Are we culturally just the product of our physical environment ?

[Virtual ghost]

I have always liked the astronomy and everything universe related. However there are days when I wonder about something.


Would current human history and all of its current religions and spiritual movemets exist in the case that our astronomical situation was different ?

In the world as it is the only objects that you can see in the night sky are Sun, Moon and Milky way (in the case you are not in developed urban area). Plus the few planets are visable as well, but they are just star like dots that slowly move across the sky over the years ... and that is pretty much it.


But what would have happened if the sky shows something much more dramatic every day/night ?
For example here is the video that shows how the night sky would look like if the moon was replaced with planets.

Also I must add that the video doesn't take into account the light reflected from those planets that could basically change the concept of night as we know it. Plus the tides would be so strong that all ancient civilizations that lived on the coasts would have much different relation with the sea. Also in the case of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune it is the Earth that would be the moon since those planets are tens or hundreds of times more massive than Earth. Not to mention that Jupiter for example has 67 known moons that would also show up in the sky. Etc.



Or what would happen if there is a nebula close to the Earth, so that it is cleary visible to human eye ? Would all people across the world worship the nebula as something divine ?
Would something like this on the sky help scientific ideas inside society ?

Are we culturally just the product of our physical environment ?

 

[GIjade]

Or what would happen if there is a nebula close to the Earth, so that it is cleary visible to human eye ? Would all people across the world worship the nebula as something divine ?

Yeah, I think if there was something like that, earlier societies would have used that as their explanation of God, rather than making up some invisible, omniscient, powerful being who controls everything. There wouldn't be a Bible such as the one religious people read today, it would be different, based on the Supreme Nebula.

Would something like this on the sky help scientific ideas inside society ?

Not sure what you mean here.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Not sure what you mean here.

It is quite simple: would one spectacular object in the sky provoke more exploring curiosity than any authority could succesfully deny ? (since it so clearly visible) Or this would help to maintain teological explanations dominant ?

Would Earth be considered center of the universe for so long in the case that there is something so spectacular in the sky ?

Also Astronomy got developed mostly because it was a very useful tool for ship navigation. However if it happens that one very bright object blocks the stars and night sky as we know it humany could potentially live for thousands of years without realizing certain facts we know today.


Of course, we can only speculate about this.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

It is quite simple: would one spectacular object in the sky provoke more exploring curiosity that any authority could deny ? (since it so clearly visible) Or this would help to maintain teological explanations dominant ?

Would Earth be considered center of the universe for so long in the case that there is something so spectacular in the sky ?

Also Astronomy got developed mostly because it was a very useful tool for ship navigation. However if it happens that one very bright object blocks the stars and night sky as we know it humany could potentially live for thousands of years without realizing certain facts we know today.

This is interesting to consider. I mean, the days of the week are essentially named in association with celestial objects/gods, so the night sky has already had an impact on our society as it is. It is inconceivable that world with a more dramatic night sky wouldn't have that sky influence culture.

I think it would be interesting to have a gas giant grace the sky, sort of like Yavin 4 in Star Wars.

Why do you think that would provoke more curiosity, though? I think people have always been curious about the night sky. In antiquity, you have stories about Icarus who tried to reach the sun, and got his wings burnt.

An interesting thing to consider is that a sky with a nebula or gas giant in it would probably develop timekeeping systems based upon the appearance of that, not any natural satellites, which would probably be less visible. (I'm also wondering what the word is for the inverse of a satellite.... what is the word for what the Earth is, for instance, in relation to the moon?)

 

[GIjade]

Would Earth be considered center of the universe for so long in the case that there is something so spectacular in the sky ?

Well, I don't think that many scientists consider Earth to be the center of the universe. Only really stupid humans believe that.

 

[Lark]

There's a powerful influence, I'm just reading some of Satre's ideas about choice vs determinism, he pretty much believes that because human beings can ask the question whether or not everything is determined means that they are not, if they were that question couldnt even be asked. Like a tree, dog or brick are essentially, in essence, a tree, dog or brick but human beings can choose what they can be so their existence preceeds their essence, its what makes humans different and they therefore free.

I'm not sure Satre is 100%, I'm a little more inclined toward Marx or Freud's determinism than Satre's free will hypothesis, although I think that Henri Bergson, as I understand it, makes a similar argument in that determinists are mistaken because they are not considering time, he thought that we could make decisions freely and no matter how deterministic things appeared choice had intervened before hand no matter how minimised or dismissive people were of it.

Mind you I think that environment has a MASSIVE influence, as to be as good as deterministic, I've experienced it myself and upon introspection and reflection realise how much is directly attributable to fortune and misfortune rather than design or plan in my own life, environment, particularly other people, relationships and attitudes which spread like contagions are very, very powerful things. I cant ever dismiss individual sovereignty out of hand, wouldnt ever, consequentialism is very, very important as an idea even should it be an imperfect reality. Its got serious utility. If its something which is becoming rather than being in existence all the better for it.

 

[Masokissed]

Personally, Jupiter or Saturn being that close would be beautiful, but it would also scare the crap out of me. I think it could've lead to religion being even more prominent than it already has in our history, because we would've worshiped either of them as gods and seen them as proof of god.

 

[indra]

Almost explicitly, society (viewed apart from the individual - each's environment) is what separates more elevated modes of understanding from the most basic inferences into nature.

A modern person reared by nature herself and only is hardly capable of even marveling the night sky, not in any meaningful way we would attribute. Perhaps, should a flash of variance occur - the nova you speak of (and even then should it not fry the planet) may we see this human's attention spark, and then, maybe only in another generation past may we attribute the phenomenon back to ourselves. The scaffold (or phenomena) must have preceded experience for meaningful observation. It is the accumulated scaffold built from thousands of lives which makes anything resembling our selves.

Still, I feel most modern religions are construed around noumenal facets irrespective of environment but located at precise temporal stages in history.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Personally, Jupiter or Saturn being that close would be beautiful, but it would also scare the crap out of me.

To be honest this is one of the reasons why I have started this thread. The posted video and similar like it have a number of comments where people say that the sight makes them quite uncomfortable. However if someone is born into such world all of this would probably be much more "normal". However that may not be exact case and planets would be used to scare people: Be good or after death your soul is permanently going to Jupiter.