Eric B
ⒺⓉⒷ
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,621
- MBTI Type
- INTP
- Enneagram
- 548
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
On an old INTPc thread, they actually reversed engineered the Nardi "Keys 2 Cognition" test, and found out which questions tallied the score for which functions, (And we see some of them were for single functions, and others were for the 16 possible preferred function combinations).
On this PerC thread http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...quiz-function-s-does-each-question-refer.html, since someone went and printed all the questions, asking about them, I figured I would offer my critique of some of the problems I see with it.
I think a lot of those [definitions the questions are based on] are a bit misleading.
Like my wife is Fe dom. but quite often "Feel strongly that something is good or bad" (#8). I can attribute this to the "Oppositional/backup" complex for Fi, and it certainly fits (like in arguments). But it seems to just be a product of Feeling in general, and the "extraverted" attitude simply means that it is normally oriented externally.
Both internal and external orientations can be "strong", and deal in "good" and "bad". So I think those questions need to be able to take into consideration the context the function is used in.
#48 "Easily get in sync physically with people and things around you" at first glance sounds like Fe, so she graded that highly, but is really Fi+Se. The key is the "physically" part of it, and she identifies with that (e.g. dancing along with others in social events, etc.), and I think that is just S in general. (Si is just as focused on the "tangible" or physical as Se, but just draws on internalized rather than emergent data. So SJ's can be into physical activity as well, just not as "daring" in it).
Then, the Ni questions are graded highly in light of "spiritual gifts" (which I believe are not necessarily true Ni, as if they are genuine, are not based on conceptualization but direct revelation; and would be more fitting as a special form of Si tangible internal data!)
So she (and another SFJ friend) came out as ISFPs, but with very strong (perhaps second place, IIRC) Fe.
Then you have #13 and 19 which almost anyone can answer positively. The key for #13 is "remain in touch", and especially "what motivates you, and what is good". I might know of things I consciously "want for [my]self", but this question is likely trying to go for the underlying values (like Ti is defined by them as "underlying principles") that motivate the person and shape what the "want for themselves". Like in counseling now, I'm seeing that what underlies a lot of stuff I have gone through, is a feeling of not being valued as a person in the relationships and situations I've been in. (From being not understood, largely due to AS). I never really thought in those terms, but I do recall that it would come up quickly in certain instances of anger. This is basically an example of how something will come into consciousness which usually lies in the unconscious (i.e. shadow). But a true Fi "user" (primary or ego-syntonic) will likely "remain in touch" with the need to feel valued, and then perhaps more likely withdraw when this need is not met. (where I, with inferior Fe, will keep trying with the environment I'm in).
The stuff I usually "know I want for myself" is usually purely technical things (gadgets, etc) that have little to do with people. I often have to wonder "why do I want this so much; it's of little practical value to myself or others?" (like this RGB LED sign sitting next to me, that I have no real use for; just so much into RGB technology).
So that should not count as true Fi, yet when TP's and FJ's answer those questions, they will think of those things, taking "what you want" purely literally. This is why people often have too high Fi results.
#19 (FiSe) should be changed altogether. It really has little to do with either Fi or Se. Perhaps the keys there are "freely" [Se] "enjoy" and "personal happiness" [Fi], but even those are way too vague. Everyone is "personal", everyone "enjoys" things, and everyone can "freely" do things.
Perhaps it should be something more like "impulsively do those wholesome things you find are good for you, e.g. [as in improve your state of mind]". Terms like "wholesome" and "state of mind" would clarify what this "good" associated with Fi really is, and I would grade it lower if phrased like that.
On this PerC thread http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...quiz-function-s-does-each-question-refer.html, since someone went and printed all the questions, asking about them, I figured I would offer my critique of some of the problems I see with it.
I think a lot of those [definitions the questions are based on] are a bit misleading.
Like my wife is Fe dom. but quite often "Feel
Both internal and external orientations can be "strong", and deal in "good" and "bad". So I think those questions need to be able to take into consideration the context the function is used in.
#48 "Easily get in sync physically with people and things around you" at first glance sounds like Fe, so she graded that highly, but is really Fi+Se. The key is the "physically" part of it, and she identifies with that (e.g. dancing along with others in social events, etc.), and I think that is just S in general. (Si is just as focused on the "tangible" or physical as Se, but just draws on internalized rather than emergent data. So SJ's can be into physical activity as well, just not as "daring" in it).
Then, the Ni questions are graded highly in light of "spiritual gifts" (which I believe are not necessarily true Ni, as if they are genuine, are not based on conceptualization but direct revelation; and would be more fitting as a special form of Si tangible internal data!)
So she (and another SFJ friend) came out as ISFPs, but with very strong (perhaps second place, IIRC) Fe.
Then you have #13 and 19 which almost anyone can answer positively. The key for #13 is "remain in touch", and especially "what motivates you, and what is good". I might know of things I consciously "want for [my]self", but this question is likely trying to go for the underlying values (like Ti is defined by them as "underlying principles") that motivate the person and shape what the "want for themselves". Like in counseling now, I'm seeing that what underlies a lot of stuff I have gone through, is a feeling of not being valued as a person in the relationships and situations I've been in. (From being not understood, largely due to AS). I never really thought in those terms, but I do recall that it would come up quickly in certain instances of anger. This is basically an example of how something will come into consciousness which usually lies in the unconscious (i.e. shadow). But a true Fi "user" (primary or ego-syntonic) will likely "remain in touch" with the need to feel valued, and then perhaps more likely withdraw when this need is not met. (where I, with inferior Fe, will keep trying with the environment I'm in).
The stuff I usually "know I want for myself" is usually purely technical things (gadgets, etc) that have little to do with people. I often have to wonder "why do I want this so much; it's of little practical value to myself or others?" (like this RGB LED sign sitting next to me, that I have no real use for; just so much into RGB technology).
So that should not count as true Fi, yet when TP's and FJ's answer those questions, they will think of those things, taking "what you want" purely literally. This is why people often have too high Fi results.
#19 (FiSe) should be changed altogether. It really has little to do with either Fi or Se. Perhaps the keys there are "freely" [Se] "enjoy" and "personal happiness" [Fi], but even those are way too vague. Everyone is "personal", everyone "enjoys" things, and everyone can "freely" do things.
Perhaps it should be something more like "impulsively do those wholesome things you find are good for you, e.g. [as in improve your state of mind]". Terms like "wholesome" and "state of mind" would clarify what this "good" associated with Fi really is, and I would grade it lower if phrased like that.
