[ENTP] An angry ENTP

[Riva]

Y
Yes, he has always little bit like that. But never to this extent. And before he couldn't stay angry more than a minute, after which he would say something hilarious and we would laugh at it all.

that souns so much like an ENTP.

And I think he treats all the people little bit similarly, but of course, not to this extent. But other friends he has are not so analytical nor fact-respecting as I am, and thus aren't so often in arguments with him.

this is the same reason i crack jokes on ISTJs (but i never insult them) cus ISTJs think they are analytical. but believe me brother the ISTJ i know(and i know a lot of them) are not analytical. but they think they are. they most of the time see only one side of the story. but if you are talented enough you can convince them. but you can't convince ISTJs with theory. you have to comeup with facts. CONCRETE EXAMPLES AND PROOF.

I had some trouble with an ISxJ friend a while back. We eventually grew apart even though we've been friends for a long time. From my perspective the biggest problem was he kept misinterpreting what I said or did. Eventually he just got really pissed at me, and I wasn't sure what to do about it.

i have the same experience with a ESFJ friend. but then again i am careful and changes the subject when things get heaty.

Sj's are my worst nightmare, overly anal and control freaks... I suspect he is feeling overly hemmed in by you. Perhaps accept him as he is and do what you can to be less annoying to him???

Lis

Wacky thoughts does not an ENTP make... Seriously, anyone can have "wacky" thoughts. ENTPs are pretty laid back. Yeah, we'll debate pretty much anything, but the rest of the description doesn't really fit.

i agree. ENTPs are too laid back to START SHOUTING right? am i not right on this? i cant ever remember a single ENTP i know shouting at someone.

 

[Habba]

Now that I have been thinking more of it, he really could be an ESTP too. If he is, my apologies for questioning the great NT type.

Sj's are my worst nightmare, overly anal and control freaks... I suspect he is feeling overly hemmed in by you. Perhaps accept him as he is and do what you can to be less annoying to him???

Yes, it is true that I'm somewhat of a control freak, but usually only on myself. But I have been his moral compass for a while. And I've thought him not to break rules so often. Essentially, to be more SJ. And it has been working: He won't be late so often any more, he puts garbage into a trash can (instead of throwing them to the streets) and he started studying harder.

It might be true, that I may not be as easy-going or cheerful as his other friends, but before this incident he has always said it to be a good thing. Well, I shall introspect my own behavior even more.

 

[Qre:us]

Sj's are my worst nightmare, overly anal and control freaks... I suspect he is feeling overly hemmed in by you. Perhaps accept him as he is and do what you can to be less annoying to him???

Lis

Let's not put the ENTP in the victim role, too fast. They can be right bastards, just like any other unbalanced type.

I suggest you NOT accept him for who he is, given the brief examples I got from your description, it would be like accepting and thanking a dude for being a jackass. As, if you want to be a true friend, and one of the duties of friendship is to call the other on their bullshit, even as you do it outta love. Esp. if what you are saying is not to harm, temper, but, for his long-term good. Accept only that what you think of your long-term well-being for him and what he thinks of his own long-term well-being, could be very opposite. Accept if you can live with that.

All you can do is own your own part to play in it. After that, let the other learn their own lessons. Esp. ENTP. If something about a person frustrated me in the past, like I believed them to be too 'nice' (faking it to keep-the-peace), too anal, to rule-bound, I would on purpose be a prick, just to test ya, just to see how far.
I've learned that there's other ways to do that, to real friends. He should as well. If not. Peace!

 

[sade]

I would have retreated awhile ago, if that had happened to me. Put some space between us to see if it would calm him down. Or just answered back in a humorously biting manner. Or calmly explained my opinion.

He sounds immature, as if he simply wants to prove his point. Is he aware of doing that? Maybe gently pointing it out a bit would be good, since you're having a conversation.

He could be an ESTP too, from what I've read.

 

[pecan111]

i agree. ENTPs are too laid back to START SHOUTING right? am i not right on this? i cant ever remember a single ENTP i know shouting at someone.

[/QUOTE]

I would have to disagree on this...while we dont' normally do this . it still is in the realm of our psyche...i have done this, esp when i was younger and more immature, but i haven't for a long time, except rasing my voice at mykids, which i really hate.

don't ever ASSUME you see or don't see certain traits or behaviors out of ANY type...that goes agianst what MTBI and type theory is all about...i have seen MBTI misused so much...we are all unique and individual and while we gain understanding of each other thu this incredibly powerful tool, it was NEVER meant to pigeon-hole anyone...please consider that it is never absolute..
thanks

 

[Mitzy]

i get over being angry before i even notice i am angry

 

[redacted]

Sj's are my worst nightmare, overly anal and control freaks... I suspect he is feeling overly hemmed in by you. Perhaps accept him as he is and do what you can to be less annoying to him???

Lis

Are you fucking kidding me?

This exemplifies all that I hate about MBTI.

 

[Loke]

But I have been his moral compass for a while. And I've thought him not to break rules so often.

And it has been working: He won't be late so often any more, he puts garbage into a trash can (instead of throwing them to the streets) and he started studying harder.

Woah, hold on right there! You've been his moral compass? You've TAUGHT him not to break rules? If he's an entp, I give him all my support.

If you want to be his moral compass, you'll just have to get used to him owning you in arguments and then showing the ownage down your throat. After all, you're force feeding him your morals.

And you can't teach an ENTP anything like that. You're confusing "teaching" with "forcing". If he wanted to follow rules, it'd be teaching, but then he probably wouldn't be ENTP.

And no, it has not been working, he just CHOSE to do those stuff to make you shut up, not because you've convinced him or taught him anything.

Now that he's been playing along with you, have you adapted to him? Have you stopped assuming you know best? Haha, an ISTJ changing his behaviour, that makes me smile a little...

So my advice to you is, ask him what he thinks of you, if there's some reason he's behaving like he is. No ISTJ has ever gotten my hints no matter how clear I send them, so I think you're better off assuming there's something he's trying to tell you but you're not seeing.

 

[EcK]

Loke, you didn't meet either of them right?
Because either you just got overly personal in here or you're a psychic.

Just saying. Take it easy. We're trying to be constructive here, if you want more information you got to ask for precisions and only then can you build a working theory.

 

[simulatedworld]

Are you fucking kidding me?

This exemplifies all that I hate about MBTI.

Wow, a poorly reasoned argument from Tinkerbell? Alert the media.

 

[pecan111]

Yes, it is true that I'm somewhat of a control freak, but usually only on myself. But I have been his moral compass for a while. And I've thought him not to break rules so often. Essentially, to be more SJ. And it has been working: He won't be late so often any more, he puts garbage into a trash can (instead of throwing them to the streets) and he started studying harder.

OMG!!! And he hasn't flipped you off for this as yet.. This, indeed may be one of the reasons he is acting out. He will NOT be controlled.

Understanding that this type of all the types will not go along for rule's sake. WE just don't see the need for all these rules bec. we must decide for ourselves. Its not that we don't have any need to crusade to change them, we just tend to ignore them. Believe me, this causes problems for us, esp. at work when we are young, but it settles down as you mature. You realize you must work within the framework of the organization, BUT i caution you...we will NEVER be blindly obedient to anyone. We balk HARD inside and out, if necessary. It goes against we stand for and our hackles AND the hair stands up on the back of our neck.

Just as you MUST follow order and rules, he MUST NOT. This is one of those essential things that drives SJ's nuts about us and we about them. SJ's need that order to feel at peace and settled. We , unequivocally, are in a chokehold with this kind of tight structure. That is why so many in the military and police are SJ's...social structure is not our forte, nor will it ever be, but we are great thinkers, model makers to the utmost. We are forever playing with ideas and systems...just think, if we had to go by rules all the time, we would likely NEVER come up with new and inventive things and ideas.

Certainly, you would not wish to have someone telling you how to live your life...Just imagine being told that NO rules are forthcoming for you and that you must constantly figure out the rules and instructions to follow them. It would be very hard on you and you would be in a constant state of angst, anxiety and frustration. It is exactly the oppposite for us. And we don't seek to change your rule-oriented mind, but its like so many HAVE to tell us what is WRONG with us. There is nothing wrong with either of us..its simply a different orientation towards life.

I will say that I have known a lot of SJ's that won't stop doing this...They must constantly barrage us with "how it should and will be"....I got to the point where I would either cringe or get angry inside when I saw one....I now see otherwise...Not all need to judge us on this and a number of them start mellowing out as they age, but they will still have the desire for structure over unstructure...

There is a whole body of theory about development of your functions as it pertains to aging and maturity...you might wish to look it up...you will find some very very helpful info there...

It might be true, that I may not be as easy-going or cheerful as his other friends, but before this incident he has always said it to be a good thing. Well, I shall introspect my own behavior even more.

Well, too much of a "good thing" can end up tasting very sour and sickening...please realize that you are who you are, BUT he is who he is...he is fighting you bec. he is struggling with control over this or he is hurting...

It used to hurt me greatly when people didn't appreciate this unique facet of my personality...but now, I so love that I have it, and I am not affected in the same way. I trust that God made me just as I was supposed to be and so are you...

 

[tinkerbell]

Now that I have been thinking more of it, he really could be an ESTP too. If he is, my apologies for questioning the great NT type.




Yes, it is true that I'm somewhat of a control freak, but usually only on myself. But I have been his moral compass for a while. And I've thought him not to break rules so often. Essentially, to be more SJ. And it has been working: He won't be late so often any more, he puts garbage into a trash can (instead of throwing them to the streets) and he started studying harder.

It might be true, that I may not be as easy-going or cheerful as his other friends, but before this incident he has always said it to be a good thing. Well, I shall introspect my own behavior even more.

Which part of being a moral compass isn't 1. conrolling or 2 annoying as hell.

It's not your place to pass judgements on people. Sorry I know I'm sounding cranky but if you have a problem with him the main thing you cna fix is yourself. Not everything is someone elses fault.

Lis

 

[matmos]

Which part of being a moral compass isn't 1. conrolling or 2 annoying as hell.

It's not your place to pass judgements on people. Sorry I know I'm sounding cranky but if you have a problem with him the main thing you cna fix is yourself. Not everything is someone elses fault.

Lis

Agreed.

Habba has lost all credibility with the "moral compass" goof...

So much so, I thought this might be a slow-burning wind-up.

Declaring oneself someone else's moral compass is about the most embarassing things I have ever heard.

You lose, Habba. That's a FAIL.

In Finnish.

 

[Habba]

Woah, hold on right there! You've been his moral compass? You've TAUGHT him not to break rules? If he's an entp, I give him all my support.

Yes, I have. Beating up an innocent guy just for fun isn't cool. Shop-lifting isn't cool. Cheating money from people isn't cool. Being late 30min from a meeting isn't cool. Not paying back money lent isn't cool.

These are the things I have taught him, and he has understood them. Have I mistaken?

If you want to be his moral compass, you'll just have to get used to him owning you in arguments and then showing the ownage down your throat. After all, you're force feeding him your morals.

Actually, he's force-feeding his arguments on me. Like this for an example: We were both watching football, and there was a penalty kick. I just randomly made a remark, that I would shoot the upper-righthand corner. He said he would jump for the left side (he's a goalkeeper). Well, the player made a goal to the right-side of the goal, but not in the upper corner, and to which I said:

Me: 'Darn, not really an upper corner, but right-side nevertheless...'
He: 'What? I said I would go for the LEFT side?
Me: 'Excuse me?'
He: 'Yeah, and he shot for the left side of the goal!'
Me: 'Well yeah, if you look from the goalkeeper's angle.'
He: 'Of course you look from his angel, you moron! Why would you look from an reversed angle?'
Me: 'Well, I merely stated that I, as a player, would go for the right upper corner. And he almost did.'
He: 'Bullshit, just admit you were wrong!'
Me: 'Well I didn't know we were arguing...'
He: 'You are such an ass not being able to admit you've made a mistake!'

And about me force-feeding morals... well, I have merely asked him to consider his actions, and to ponder how he would react himself if someone would do the same to him. I have never made any threats to him about moral behaviors. And I'm well aware that I'm far too judging on my own actions.

And you can't teach an ENTP anything like that. You're confusing "teaching" with "forcing". If he wanted to follow rules, it'd be teaching, but then he probably wouldn't be ENTP.

Being able to follow the rules is something everyone should learn, regardless off type.

And no, it has not been working, he just CHOSE to do those stuff to make you shut up, not because you've convinced him or taught him anything.

Now that he's been playing along with you, have you adapted to him? Have you stopped assuming you know best?

Yes, I have learned a great bit of being more social, less judging and more immediate with my actions. I love his enthusiasm, and I have said that to him too.

Haha, an ISTJ changing his behaviour, that makes me smile a little...

Being judgmental is fun, isn't it now?

we, we, we, we, we

I always thought ENTPs were individualists. Sorry for not commenting your post much, but it was so much trouble just reading it (but of course, I read it). Please, could you use paragraphs the next time. (Hey, I'm SJ! I'm allowed to do this stuff. )

I'll just generally say that you are being overly too aggressive for nothing. I'm not trying to control him, I'm trying to make him stop, even if just for a second, and ponder his actions.

There is a whole body of theory about development of your functions as it pertains to aging and maturity...you might wish to look it up...you will find some very very helpful info there...

And I have. I am well aware that due to my inferior Ne I'm sometimes limited with my "visions". But I try to keep telling myself "Zoom out!" when I notice I'm concentrating too much on the details. And I have given myself more room for my emotions (tertiary Fi). Ten years ago I had just one emotional display, the "".

But he hasn't, and he should. Regardless of him being and ESTP or ENTP, he has tertiary Fe, whichi according to some theory (Lenore Thompson) is used in defense mode after primary function fails. In his case, he's blasting negative emotions on everybody. And my tertiary Fi makes me cut out connections when I get angry. And that I have done.

Thank you for your input, it has given me lots of thinking. Keep it coming, if you something more to add.

 

[pecan111]

I always thought ENTPs were individualists. Sorry for not commenting your post much, but it was so much trouble just reading it (but of course, I read it). Please, could you use paragraphs the next time. (Hey, I'm SJ! I'm allowed to do this stuff. )

i edited it...did it helP

 

[pecan111]

And no, it has not been working, he just CHOSE to do those stuff to make you shut up, not because you've convinced him or taught him anything.

Either that OR its possible that he thought that since he bent to you by modifying his behavior for you about some things, then it was time you stop continuing to try and bend him and bend yourself instead OR none of the above...He will have to be the one to tell you this.

Yes, I have learned a great bit of being more social, less judging and more immediate with my actions. I love his enthusiasm, and I have said that to him too.

I hope so...its a learning experience for both of you...

I'll just generally say that you are being overly too aggressive for nothing. I'm not trying to control him, I'm trying to make him stop, even if just for a second, and ponder his actions.

sorry, didn't mean to come off sounding agressive...it is so tough to help others understand how antithetical this is to us.

You don't have to say it in a mean way...but I feel I should point out something..

are these your words?

I'm trying to make him stop, even if just for a second, and ponder his actions.

is that not control??? even though you mean well , are you his parent? Is this not for him to decide how to do this? If he is socially aloof or inept, then he will bear the consequences for his actions. I am afraid there is no other way to learn except through real life....can you love him enough to allow him to proceed on his journey? If so, you are being a true friend to him...if not, and he violates your personal boundaries, then you must protect yourself.


Perhaps the question is....why do you not walk away and what do you NOT want to lose out of this friendship, alliance with him...Everyone must decide for themselves and sometimes it is so hard, so very hard to give up something that they perceive to have some value to them....Please consider this on a personal level.

 

[Tiny Army]

Wow, I've never met an ENTP who acted like this.

It does sound a lot like my ENTJ roomate, though.

 

[Habba]

is that not control??? even though you mean well , are you his parent?

I'm his friend, and probably the best one he ever had (even though he wouldn't know it). And it's friend's duty to make one stop if he's acting stupidly. If he wouldn't be my friend, I would just walk the other way.

And I might, if things won't change soon.

 

[Siegfried]

I'm his friend, and probably the best one he ever had (even though he wouldn't know it). And it's friend's duty to make one stop if he's acting stupidly. If he wouldn't be my friend, I would just walk the other way.

And I might, if things won't change soon.

Yea friends do help there. Which part of him, do you want to see change the most?

 

[Habba]

Yea friends do help there. Which part of him, do you want to see change the most?

The aggressive part. The macho part. The part that doesn't understand differing opinions.