[Tritype] 359 (Or Any Variations): The Thinker

[enoki]

Hey 359 team,

Just bumping in with a question in case anyone sees it. Anyone know where our growth points are?
I don't expect to see replies here for awhile, but will put add in a few anecdotes in case other fellow 359s are curious.

I'd suppose that actually participating is the first step, lol. Find the most participatory way by at least establishing anchors somewhere. This may be actually sticking around discussion forums and replying to people.

So the question is, how to not be so "hidden"? This is, I consider - an Achilles' heel of our tritype. And to be fair, this hidden-ness has a tendency of being extreme to the point that even saying "I" or "me" too much becomes a chore and a source of discomfort to acknowledge it. It is a skill that I picked up in very early years, and thus almost effectively erased from dialogue with others. Rarely have people caught onto this tendency, but when they do, I purposely use it more to thwart anyone's suspicion. 359s are incredibly self aware, that's for sure. Onlookers may mistake this for emotional intensity (as Fi is very inner directed), but... 359s have a mental intensity which can be confused for intense emotion (and may externalize as such). They are hidden and also very skilled mirrors. Their dry cool wit (lol, if ENTP) and initial friendliness is masked with its contrary extremes underneath.

To give a picture of how a 359 in action is like:
I will draw from my example. I have been incredibly drawn to debates and discourses, but while I may be equipped with the knowledge of both points (and how to destroy the debate), this 359 stops at once from getting involved. In some cases, I have silenced myself to the point that by the time there is an opportunity to speak, my mind is ineffectively blank. And nothing is there anymore. There is a very constant sense of self and group alienation. 3 wants to maintain the image, 5 wants to dish the truth out there for everyone to hear, 9 is good at compromising and understanding other points of view but has its own explosive moments of anger. This in nature, reminds me of 8w9's behavior in terms of their anger coping mechanism.

I suspect that 359s are also "universal appealers", as in... in the midst of a discourse, they may not attack the person, but stay extremely focused on the universal issue. This may awe the opposing party, as it seems that we are taking in consideration of their point, but the 359 simply ignores the fact that it is a person, and decides to focus on the person as the "thought", not the ego. This is what makes them so adept at discourse. A few that pointed out to me they admired my method of breaking down arguments to the very essence, and not breaking down someone else for the thought they are "responsible" for. But let's be real. In a way, we really couldn't care any less. Because if you focus so much on pleasing them (dom- or tert- Fe), you'll be paralyzed from ever participating. The only way I can find myself bypass this issue is by erasing everyone's ego and analyzing the issue as if it were an object.

I would go so far to say that learning about MBTI / Enneagram / Socionics can turn a 359 less authentic as they are pressured more to live up to the descriptions of their type. Others who are knowledgeable about mbti have a tendency to scrutinize each other and "confirm" each other's typing. In this case, ENTP. As I lack the stereotypical 7w8 traits that seem to define their behavior, I may even purposely mimic 7w8 tendencies as to not rouse doubt of others. I myself have no doubt in how I metabolize information and process it (ENTP), but can be strangely concerned about how others may see it.

Finding other 1s or 8s can be quite beneficial. Observing 8s trip me up all the time, they're very straightforward in a way that I am in private, just not publicly.

There are many other facets to 359, not just thinking or discourse, but the key question remains in how you guys experience. Tell me how you do it and see it.

Will update this post if there are other important mentions to be made, but am curious how you guys go about with breaking from being "triple hidden", as we are known... and finally just jump into being real as hell and living to the totality of your potential.

 

[Elusivity]

Hey 359 team, Just bumping in with a question in case anyone sees it. Anyone know where our growth points are?

A fellow ENTP Thinker~! How rare.

Although I am 935, so all my core issues have to do with being E9. I too, cannot in the least relate to our E7 stereotype. Socially speaking, being E9 renders me ambiverted--I am very comfortable either among crowds or alone, but only for a definite amount of time before I have to switch.

Growth point is the exact same as dealing with whichever type is your core. The tritype merely gives more nuance to the description, but I am a 9 first and foremost, and triple-hidden second.

However, reading this has been amazingly helpful. I never realized how much I've hidden of myself, until I've resolved a bulk of E9 issues. Having done so, I felt more comfortable being myself, have less need to research and then perform accordingly, and suddenly my friends are expressing all kinds of amazement that they just learned xyz about me, even though we've known each other for years. Whereas I've never really felt hidden from myself (except for certain SX-3 issues). It's been really quite fascinating.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

This is probably 1 or 2 off from my tritype

 

[Tilt]

Will update this post if there are other important mentions to be made, but am curious how you guys go about with breaking from being "triple hidden", as we are known... and finally just jump into being real as hell and living to the totality of your potential.

Hi there,
thanks for sharing your experiences. I would say that my best-fit typing is ENFJ 3w4, 5w6, 9w8; Sp/Sx. An odd combination but it seems to fit me. I am unsure how I would go about answering such a question.

In a sense, I am a "open" person but it's usually on my own terms. Time and time again, I will think I am baring my soul to another person but then he/she will flat out tell me I hold back too much or people assume they know me more than they really do... it's the weirdest shit.

 

[Ayuhime]

I think I am a 953 sp/so with 9w1 first.

So the question is, how to not be so "hidden"? This is, I consider - an Achilles' heel of our tritype. And to be fair, this hidden-ness has a tendency of being extreme to the point that even saying "I" or "me" too much becomes a chore and a source of discomfort to acknowledge it. It is a skill that I picked up in very early years, and thus almost effectively erased from dialogue with others. Rarely have people caught onto this tendency, but when they do, I purposely use it more to thwart anyone's suspicion. 359s are incredibly self aware, that's for sure. Onlookers may mistake this for emotional intensity (as Fi is very inner directed), but... 359s have a mental intensity which can be confused for intense emotion (and may externalize as such). They are hidden and also very skilled mirrors. Their dry cool wit (lol, if ENTP) and initial friendliness is masked with its contrary extremes underneath.

This part especially striked me since I have a tendency to do that as well. In fact, since in my mother tongue it is still grammatically correct if you don't use "I" while talking about yourself, it had been a struggle for me to get used to use so many "I"s in English. I could never pinpoint why I always desired not to write it, and if that were to be the reason, it would make sense? Though, now it seems to be at the other extreme end- I tend to spill a lot about myself (but not really at the same time) as I attempt to figure myself out better/trying to unmask every possible mask I might have put on.

Only reason I even have a doubt about having a 3 in my tritype actually is just how much I don't fit the image of a usual three (which is actually pretty normal as 9 is my core type and I tend to be not at healthiest end of health level spectrum) and I think it also has to do with being an INTP? See, I don't exactly feel broken or sad over how "different" I were, but I also always had a competitive streak (especially towards my own self- constantly trying to improve myself) as well ability to grasp school subjects quite fast/easily, also the infamous inf Fe "why do people think I am weird? I don't understand what I am doing wrong..." mixed with. But instead of having woes about it, I simply doubled down on self improvement in an attempt to prove them wrong and turn my "weird personality/hobies" to something to be "admired". It sounds a lot more like 3w4 in this case, I believe.

I am also newly becoming aware of my 3 sp tendency to dislike people I usually coined as "deceivers" (often 3 sx and 3 so people) and "how vain they acted". 3 sp tries to not be vain and that's how they trick people and themselves, after all: They believe that they are trying to not deceive anyone and act pretty frank while there is a lot of deceiving underneath which they don't even personally don't realize most of the time? (Correct me if I am wrong on this one, I am still trying to figure that one out.)


9 and 5 fits with being an INTP pretty well, I believe. Growing up with an ISTP (not sure about her E-type but a rough guess would be 5w6 sp/so or sp/sx) mother and an ESFJ 3w2 or 2w3 so/sx father, playing the mediator and "good child" was kind of a given. Which happens to be labeled as 9w1ness. 5w6 is pretty stereotypical, really.


If I talk about the tritype and how I fit with it in general, I think it overall fits me well: I love seeing different sides to any issue and see the extreme ends people tend to pick, then try to play mediator between the two(9) but also using all the knowledge I gain from my researches/information gathering(5) as well a knack to make myself sound reasonable/competent if I feel the need to (3) [which is actually pretty rare? My competence doesn't really get questioned much, nor do I have to assert any authority on people unless they come asking for it- too much trouble, too much energy and more than necessary time lost.] so I often use my 3 and 5 in order to meet my 9's need to mediate the situation. I always find myself feeling insincere no matter how hard I try to be honest, as well as people saying that they fear they don't know me at all despite talking about myself a lot of the time (mostly things I do/accomplish in my area of interest/things I don't exactly view as personal but most other people tend to view as) and I simply double down even more into digging in an attempt to figure that and myself out. This also would count as sx-blindspot development, perhaps.

I am not exactly sure what else to add here since this sounded more like a personal typology biography rather than simply talking about tritype, so I should stop. Usual INTP wall-of-text reply to mostly shorter ones, haha-

(Fun fact: I had been stalking this thread for about 6 months or so. I wanted to write a reply for the longest time but every single time I wanted to do it, it often ended up with feeling either pretty exposed or fearing I make any mistake/sound silly/get some sort of criticism. I am still not in the slightest happy with what I'm currently about to post but stalking something for the longest time and not ever replying is starting to irritate me so yeah, let's face our fear of not being anonymous/blowing covers, haha.

No it seriously feels uncomfortable what the Arceus?)

 

[joel amos]

Hey all, great discussion. To the best of my knowledge, I'm an INTJ-T 5w4-3-9 so/sp.

this hidden-ness has a tendency of being extreme to the point that even saying "I" or "me" too much becomes a chore and a source of discomfort to acknowledge it

I do this too. My strategy is to ask questions, even if I won't give a damn about what the answers are.

I may be equipped with the knowledge of both points (and how to destroy the debate), this 359 stops at once from getting involved. In some cases, I have silenced myself to the point that by the time there is an opportunity to speak, my mind is ineffectively blank.

I can very much relate to this when observing a debate. Same thing will happen sometimes when I'm called on in class. Being put on the spot can cause anxiety (attacks) even though I am never without the knowledge required for an articulate response. Days later I'll be repeating the conversation in my head and will have crafted what would have been the perfect response.

Observing 8s trip me up all the time, they're very straightforward in a way that I am in private, just not publicly.

Do you know any personally? What is that dynamic like? I'm getting to know one (through a mutual friend), and I feel kind of suppressed so far.

am curious how you guys go about with breaking from being "triple hidden"

Interesting term, but I have no clue because, heck, I'm quadruple or quintuple hidden as an INTJ-T w4 sx-3.

I've never really felt hidden from myself except for certain SX-3 issues

Would you mind divulging? I definitely have deficiencies there.

I am also newly becoming aware of my 3 sp tendency to dislike people I usually coined as "deceivers" (often 3 sx and 3 so people) and "how vain they acted"

I can relate. Vanity and deception don't bother me until it's well-received by an audience. (If everyone knows they're acting shitty, it's fine.) When people are buying it, it's the most infuriating, cringey thing. There's someone I know well who's always talking himself up (e.g. inane stuff like alcohol tolerance, pretending to not be extremely introverted, etc.), and I can barely stand to watch.

I wanted to write a reply for the longest time but every single time I wanted to do it, it often ended up with feeling either pretty exposed or fearing I make any mistake/sound silly/get some sort of criticism.

Curious: what about this is exposing? I mean, isn't this just an anonymous setting? I certainly would be much more hesitant to post if I thought anyone I knew would ever see this, but I highly doubt that will happen. (By the way, this is a sincere question and not at all a criticism. As should be very clear to all of us by now, the human being is an extremely nuanced thing, and to criticize or judge when someone has the guts to open up is a tragedy.)

 

[Hermit of the Forest]

953 INTP here! I relate to so much of what's said here. I don't have anything else to add right now, but I'd be glad to try to answer any questions anyone would like to ask me.

 

[bluejay]

However, reading this has been amazingly helpful. I never realized how much I've hidden of myself, until I've resolved a bulk of E9 issues. Having done so, I felt more comfortable being myself, have less need to research and then perform accordingly, and suddenly my friends are expressing all kinds of amazement that they just learned xyz about me, even though we've known each other for years. Whereas I've never really felt hidden from myself (except for certain SX-3 issues). It's been really quite fascinating.

In a sense, I am a "open" person but it's usually on my own terms. Time and time again, I will think I am baring my soul to another person but then he/she will flat out tell me I hold back too much or people assume they know me more than they really do... it's the weirdest shit.

Omg, so fucking true. I have 3w4 and 5w4 in my tritype, so I am usually quite amused when people presume to know more about me, than they really do, when I do open up. I tend to think that they "don't understand" and they don't see beyond the surface.

Also, the thing I think is distinct to my tritype, is I don't really seek to bother to correct them if they are wrong about me or even about other things. I may disagree or add a different pov only if I am interested in 'discussion'. I am not always interested in sharing all my diverse pov's or knowledge. Hence why ppl see us as secretive... we do not share everything we know. Even if we share a little, others have the sense that there is a lot more there. And there usually is.... however, again, I feel that others will neither understand me, or my knowledge.

I am hidden, yet I am there.. and if you can see it, in my art, design & taste... you will know me. Like being hidden in plain sight. Paradoxical, but true. There, but not there.

Every word, every detail, every symbol I use, has a purpose.. a very defined expression. You miss the minor detail.. you ~miss~ me. I refuse to repeat, or over communicate anything.

If someone says I don't open enough, I think, "you just don't understand subtlety". Emotions for me, are extremely nuanced.. a glance, a look, a touch... it's all there. But I am certainly elusive. Not because I want to be 'mysterious' in a 4w5 image way, but because I really am deep down... sometimes I elude myself, sometimes I don't want to be seen, sometimes I do.. sometimes I feel my emotions more in the 'shadows', sometimes the shadows give me energy...

It's like film photography needing to be exposed only in a dark room, other wise it risks being OVEREXPOSED.. I will lose my ability to express in the present moment if everything is clear, bold and obvious. It must bleed out, or be expressed as below.. (unless with an intimate, who I will share with freely, if it's right)

I am much more fluid with art, design or expression... many ppl of this tritype, especially when the 3 is 3w4, will stand back from their "work" their creative babies and say, "look at this. Not me". Their work is their deepest expression of being.... like removing their being from the picture ables something of theirs to 'shine' or be seen without a light being shone on themselves. I see this in so many artists that I enjoy..... they want their work in the spotlight, but they enjoy the mysteriousness of stepping back and being unknown.

I tend to have the biggest problems with ppl who want me to be an open book.. i've slammed many doors over this... I will only let ppl in if they have the capacity to get me, and they get my energy.. enjoy it and are attracted to it.

 

[miguelaguirre]

Hey 359 team,

Just bumping in with a question in case anyone sees it. Anyone know where our growth points are?
I don't expect to see replies here for awhile, but will put add in a few anecdotes in case other fellow 359s are curious.

I'd suppose that actually participating is the first step, lol. Find the most participatory way by at least establishing anchors somewhere. This may be actually sticking around discussion forums and replying to people.

So the question is, how to not be so "hidden"? This is, I consider - an Achilles' heel of our tritype. And to be fair, this hidden-ness has a tendency of being extreme to the point that even saying "I" or "me" too much becomes a chore and a source of discomfort to acknowledge it. It is a skill that I picked up in very early years, and thus almost effectively erased from dialogue with others. Rarely have people caught onto this tendency, but when they do, I purposely use it more to thwart anyone's suspicion. 359s are incredibly self aware, that's for sure. Onlookers may mistake this for emotional intensity (as Fi is very inner directed), but... 359s have a mental intensity which can be confused for intense emotion (and may externalize as such). They are hidden and also very skilled mirrors. Their dry cool wit (lol, if ENTP) and initial friendliness is masked with its contrary extremes underneath.

To give a picture of how a 359 in action is like:
I will draw from my example. I have been incredibly drawn to debates and discourses, but while I may be equipped with the knowledge of both points (and how to destroy the debate), this 359 stops at once from getting involved. In some cases, I have silenced myself to the point that by the time there is an opportunity to speak, my mind is ineffectively blank. And nothing is there anymore. There is a very constant sense of self and group alienation. 3 wants to maintain the image, 5 wants to dish the truth out there for everyone to hear, 9 is good at compromising and understanding other points of view but has its own explosive moments of anger. This in nature, reminds me of 8w9's behavior in terms of their anger coping mechanism.

I suspect that 359s are also "universal appealers", as in... in the midst of a discourse, they may not attack the person, but stay extremely focused on the universal issue. This may awe the opposing party, as it seems that we are taking in consideration of their point, but the 359 simply ignores the fact that it is a person, and decides to focus on the person as the "thought", not the ego. This is what makes them so adept at discourse. A few that pointed out to me they admired my method of breaking down arguments to the very essence, and not breaking down someone else for the thought they are "responsible" for. But let's be real. In a way, we really couldn't care any less. Because if you focus so much on pleasing them (dom- or tert- Fe), you'll be paralyzed from ever participating. The only way I can find myself bypass this issue is by erasing everyone's ego and analyzing the issue as if it were an object.

I would go so far to say that learning about MBTI / Enneagram / Socionics can turn a 359 less authentic as they are pressured more to live up to the descriptions of their type. Others who are knowledgeable about mbti have a tendency to scrutinize each other and "confirm" each other's typing. In this case, ENTP. As I lack the stereotypical 7w8 traits that seem to define their behavior, I may even purposely mimic 7w8 tendencies as to not rouse doubt of others. I myself have no doubt in how I metabolize information and process it (ENTP), but can be strangely concerned about how others may see it.

Finding other 1s or 8s can be quite beneficial. Observing 8s trip me up all the time, they're very straightforward in a way that I am in private, just not publicly.

There are many other facets to 359, not just thinking or discourse, but the key question remains in how you guys experience. Tell me how you do it and see it.

Will update this post if there are other important mentions to be made, but am curious how you guys go about with breaking from being "triple hidden", as we are known... and finally just jump into being real as hell and living to the totality of your potential.

As a ENTP Thinker, every part of this rings true to me. English is not my mother's tongue, and I've written before about how disconnected I feel to the constant use of "I" in every sentence I start. Ever since I got into the enneagram, I've felt like I'm under the exact same pressure fitting my tritype, especially being a sx/sp 3w4. I've always felt I like that "fire" inside of me to let my opinionated five tendencies out, and I find that debating example happens to me all the time, knowing I'm talented enough to end any debate but sensing that underlying danger of being wrong, even as I write this since I don't get to use my English that often. I haven't yet realized an evaluation of the type of people that I can benefit from in typing terms, but I definitely admire strongly open people and often try to inspire myself with their image in order to step out of those paralyzing energies while performing in front of others, so I can see how I could learn something from an eight company. Self conscious to the max, lol. Guess we could improve from exposing to fear, uncomfortable situations.

 

[diccs]

intp 359 signing in. Hello!