2020 Democratic Party primary thread

[Virtual ghost]

It's not about blaming other people for Trump's words and actions, it's about blaming them for allowing someone like him to be elected in the first place. I know the Hitler comparisons become tiresome after a while, but on a similar token, while we might not blame the German people for Hitler's actions, we can still assign responsibility to them for allowing him to come to power in the first place.

We are largely responsible for the reality TV celebrating culture that allowed Trump to keep himself relevant and in the public eye long after he should've faded as a footnote of the 80s. This is same the culture that makes celebrities out of people who are famous for being famous, i.e. Kardashians or any other Z-lister who makes a career out of having their life turned into frontpage news or primetime TV drama. It was easy for a self-promoter like Trump to market himself and stay relevant into the 21st century. This is the same culture in which people have seriously considered Dwayne Johnson, Oprah, and Kid Rock to be viable political candidates.

Just for the record: I know. Especially since we are importing this from you.


In my country the presidential elections are just around the corner and the far right fascist leaning candidate that could unseat our pro American president is a singer. What altogether is why most intellectuals agree that USA is "ground zero" of this infestation. Politics isn't a PR stunt or at least it shouldn't be.

 

[Virtual ghost]

No President has really been willing to fight idiocracy since Carter's (in)famous "Crisis of Confidence" Speech. Granted, Carter wasn't addressing idiocracy, but citizens don't tend to react well to being lectured on how they are part of the problem, regardless of whether they actually are part of the problem.


For instance, I think part of the healthcare crisis in America is due to people taking poor care of themselves and eating garbage processed foods, but it would be political suicide for any politician to address this fact.



Regardless of whether or not you agree with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I think a large part of the backlash against her is due to some of the Green New Deal plan requiring people to take a long hard hard look at how their own lifestyle choices might contribute to the climate crisis.

This is perhaps number one problem with rampant individualism, you can just say everyone to STFU and do your own rainbows and unicorns. However there is a way how to address this in less direct fashion. From making laws in a more silent fashion, having someone say stuff publicly for you, or you open the case with "Wouldn't it be better if ..." , etc.

 

[Jaguar]

But the bottom line is what made all of those millions vote for him ?

They were Republicans. And they would have voted for a guy named Betty, were he the Republican nominee. Hillary had a major problem with likability, that's been the case since the 1990's. They even hated her when Bill was in office. I don't think she can really grasp that, and probably never will.

Perhaps the Russians did tilt the game somewhat

If people are susceptible to conspiracy theories like, "Hillary is running a child sex business at a pizza parlor!" Seriously, I was on a live streaming news site over the weekend. To the right of the screen was live chat. I was watching Colin Kaepernick do his workout for some NFL scouts, but on the live chat screen I saw crazy things. That's when I said to myself, "Who the fuck is running bots with bogus messages?" I was watching a football player but someone invaded the live chat with comments about Jeffrey Epstein (who is dead), Hillary Clinton, Trump, and all this other conspiracy shit that had nothing to do with Colin Kaepernick. You'd think there was a large group of assholes out there who just wanted to slam your brain with nonsense day and night.

but that still can't really explain how many millions of adult people voted. In my book you can't really explain that without taking a look at what Bush and Obama did

My man, now you sound like a conspiracy theorist. I met people firsthand who actually believed Hillary was going to take their guns. It's not so much that people were pro-Trump as they were anti-Hillary.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You'd think there was a large group of assholes out there who just wanted to slam your brain with nonsense day and night.

You know why? Because there is. But keep believing in magic nonsense about how America is the freedomest country in the world.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

It's not about blaming other people for Trump's words and actions, it's about blaming them for allowing someone like him to be elected in the first place. I know the Hitler comparisons become tiresome after a while, but on a similar token, while we might not blame the German people for Hitler's actions, we can still assign responsibility to them for allowing him to come to power in the first place.

We are largely responsible for the reality TV celebrating culture that allowed Trump to keep himself relevant and in the public eye long after he should've faded as a footnote of the 80s. This is same the culture that makes celebrities out of people who are famous for being famous, i.e. Kardashians or any other Z-lister who makes a career out of having their life turned into frontpage news or primetime TV drama. It was easy for a self-promoter like Trump to market himself and stay relevant into the 21st century. This is the same culture in which people have seriously considered Dwayne Johnson, Oprah, and Kid Rock to be viable political candidates.

Oh yeah. I always hated that reality TV show garbage and never understood why it was popular. So I'm not surprised we got a reality TV show president.... people like that garbage.

 

[highlander]

I like the guy from South Bend

 

[Jaguar]

Warren, Sanders call for NBC sexual abuse probe ahead of MSNBC debate

Will that be the excuse you people give in case you have shitty poll numbers after the debate or what?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Warren, Sanders call for NBC sexual abuse probe ahead of MSNBC debate

Will that be the excuse you people give in case you have shitty poll numbers after the debate or what?

People in media conglomerates engaging in sexual abuse? What a crazy story!

 

[Jaguar]

People in media conglomerates engaging in sexual abuse? What a crazy story!

I wouldn't vote for any of them. Whiners.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I wouldn't vote for any of them. Whiners.

You wouldn't vote for them anyway. You're afraid of them taking your money like the Trump crowd was afraid of Hillary taking their guns.

 

[Jaguar]

You wouldn't vote for them anyway. You're afraid of them taking your money like the Trump crowd was afraid of Hillary taking their guns.

I have plenty of money. I'll vote for someone who isn't a nut.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I have plenty of money.

My point exactly.

You've constantly complained about how terrible Warren and Sanders are because they want to take your money, even though you'd still have a lot left (and you seem to be admitting as much above).

 

[Jaguar]

My point exactly.

But you can vote for a nut. Just don't break your beak on her brain.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

But you can vote for a nut. Just don't break your beak on her brain.

Owls don't eat nuts, although we can see and hear when lots of other creatures are blind and deaf.

 

[Jaguar]

Owls don't eat nuts, although we can see and hear when lots of other creatures are blind and deaf.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

 

[Virtual ghost]

They were Republicans. And they would have voted for a guy named Betty, were he the Republican nominee. Hillary had a major problem with likability, that's been the case since the 1990's. They even hated her when Bill was in office. I don't think she can really grasp that, and probably never will.

I know that in USA this passes as an excuse but this is exactly the consequences of what I am saying. Partisan division is something that Bush and Obama pushed almost to absurd and something that is possible only if a whole line of presidents didn't do enough on the intellect of the nation. I vote for Trump simply because he is a Republican candidate is a fail of education system more than anything else. In the case someone did his job half of Trumps arguments wouldn't pass. While other half would be pointless in the case that someone didn't create so many mistakes which someone has to fix. I mean your point still can't really explain how he won the primary that was full of republicans (and he did it pretty convincingly).

If people are susceptible to conspiracy theories like, "Hillary is running a child sex business at a pizza parlor!" Seriously, I was on a live streaming news site over the weekend. To the right of the screen was live chat. I was watching Colin Kaepernick do his workout for some NFL scouts, but on the live chat screen I saw crazy things. That's when I said to myself, "Who the fuck is running bots with bogus messages?" I was watching a football player but someone invaded the live chat with comments about Jeffrey Epstein (who is dead), Hillary Clinton, Trump, and all this other conspiracy shit that had nothing to do with Colin Kaepernick. You'd think there was a large group of assholes out there who just wanted to slam your brain with nonsense day and night.

My man, now you sound like a conspiracy theorist. I met people firsthand who actually believed Hillary was going to take their guns. It's not so much that people were pro-Trump as they were anti-Hillary.

Are you sure ? It isn't really a conspiracy that the two presidents before Trump added something like new 15 Trillions to public debt, that many factories are outsourced, that they started a number of pointless wars, that they suppressed many liberties by which USA was famous (due to 9/11), transparency and ethics are generally down ... etc. Thinking that all of this had nothing to do with people choosing an outsider is simply short-sided in my book. Why even resist the idea that the Trump is a product of mainstream politics ? (honest question)

 

[Jaguar]

Partisan division is something that Bush and Obama pushed almost to absurd

Peddle that to someone who is a willing buyer. You're on another planet.

 

[Jaguar]

Buttigieg surges to 10-point lead in New Hampshire: poll | TheHill

 

[Virtual ghost]

Peddle that to someone who is a willing buyer.

One thing is a random speech that should make a hype and something completely different is how the other side gets served your words and POLICIES over the years (forum republicans are free to say something on the topic). What in the end makes Obama more divisive president than not. I understand this is somewhat unfair accusation if we consider how many republicans acted but he simply didn't do enough. I think he could have prevented many economic and legal bad things that landed on American people over those 8 years, what in the end tilted a few key states. Or in alternative it would perhaps be enough of a difference that someone milder wins the Republican primary.



But ok we don't have to talk about this, I am here mostly just for a "chat" not to flame people.

 

[ceecee]

No President has really been willing to fight idiocracy since Carter's (in)famous "Crisis of Confidence" Speech. Granted, Carter wasn't addressing idiocracy, but citizens don't tend to react well to being lectured on how they are part of the problem, regardless of whether they actually are part of the problem.


For instance, I think part of the healthcare crisis in America is due to people taking poor care of themselves and eating garbage processed foods, but it would be political suicide for any politician to address this fact.



Regardless of whether or not you agree with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I think a large part of the backlash against her is due to some of the Green New Deal plan requiring people to take a long hard hard look at how their own lifestyle choices might contribute to the climate crisis.

Yesterday, the spending stopgap measure and the parts of the Patriot Act that pertain to extending government surveillance for the next three moths passed. All House Dems voted for it except for AOC, Illhan Omar, Rashida Talib, Earl Blumenauer and Grace Meng. Under the current government structure, you will continue to give up your civil rights in return for "security" that can't even be provided. That opens the door wider and wider for an authoritarian fist just salivating to let it rip and a populous too scared and too beat down to stop them.

These 5 Dems plus Justin Amash did the right thing and when it goes to the Senate you know Bernie will vote against it too. I don't even need to think twice about that. That makes him the very best candidate for president in of itself. There is no other option.