Eric B
ⒺⓉⒷ
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,621
- MBTI Type
- INTP
- Enneagram
- 548
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
Recently going over Beebe's Integrity In Depth, I notice on p. 87 he points out:
“Finding the anima was for Jung like finding the possibility of having an Anne Elliot within [From Jane Austen's Persuasion, who maintained both "amiability" in going along with her family's rejection of her fiancé, but then maintained the "constancy" to still be in love with him later], to manage the chaotic world of internal object relations in a conscious and coordinated way.â€
I suddenly took note of the concept of “object†relations, and this helped me understand “Jung often spoke of the anima as his bridge to the Selfâ€, (or “the unconsciousâ€), as I had always heard. Or, “the face we show to the unconscious†as it was specifically put to me once. This mirroring the Persona being “the face we show to the [conscious] outer worldâ€.
“Objects†are images of people that remain within us, and we often filter our relations with other people through. The theory [of Melanie Klein] focuses on infancy, and a “good breast†that satisfies the child, in contrast to a “bad breast†that forms when nursing is withheld.
I’m not sure whether “objects†would be classified as kinds of “complexes†themselves; they seem opposite, in a way. Complexes, as I've mentioned before (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/general-psychology/69138-understanding-complexes.html), are miniscule senses of “I†within the psyche; like alternate “subjectsâ€. “Object†is in this sense the opposite of “subjectâ€; you know, like in “objective/subjectiveâ€. So I’m not sure if these would be considered unconscious senses of “Iâ€; they’re more like unconscious senses of “you†or “they†that get projected out.
This helps understand stuff I’ve been experiencing internally, and also express how this works for all types through the inferior function.
Like one internal “object†for me is of my father speaking to me about “life†and dealing with people, often all coldly and authoritatively.
So this “object†comes up anytime I hear authoritative pontificating on something, or justification of the way things are.
So what happens, is [as a TP] I respond to this inner object through a Fe anima that introjects the values expressed by others, and is totally hypersensitive to their expressed emotional states,feeling obligated by them.
But, if they run counter to ego’s Ti sense of order, then I resist, but still with this heavy sense of guilt(which fuels stronger and stronger resistance), and projecting the internal critical father object onto them.
So when the anima feels threatened by object, I figure the Hero/Persona then tries to fight against the object in the outer world with logic, but this doesn’t work in the inner world.
So to extend this to how it must work for the other types:
TJ Persona approaches the external world with external sense of logical order. Fi anima approaches inner objects by personally relating, and the person feels their “integrity†is being questioned. Ego resists by sticking with logical decision, which “speaks for itselfâ€.
FP Persona approaches external world through personally identifying. Anima approaches internal objects through external sense of logical order. Because of the dominant worldview, they might be less likely to resist, and thus go along with Te.
FJ Persona approaches external world through external sense of interpersonal order. Anima approaches internal objects through internal sense of logical order. They may or may not resist, depending on the objective standard. Ti may see it as compatible with its sense of order, and then they will internalize the external threat.
SP Persona approaches outer world through focus on emergent tangible detail. Anima approaches internal objects through storehouse of invisible patterns. [not really sure how they react to Ni, but I guess it might be similar to how Si reacts].
SJ Persona approaches outer objects through focus on internal storehouse of tangible details. Anima approaches inner objects through emergent invisible patterns. Ego will feel exposed to nebulous random information, and will resist by sticking with known facts.
NP Persona approaches outer world through emergent external patterns and meanings. Anima approaches inner objects through internal storehouse of tangible facts. Ego will feel bound, and demand freedom.
NJ Persona will approach outer objects through internal storehouse of intangible patterns and meanings. Anima will approach inner objects through emergent tangible detail. Ego will feel it has no framework to understand things through.
So does this ring true for anyone else?
“Finding the anima was for Jung like finding the possibility of having an Anne Elliot within [From Jane Austen's Persuasion, who maintained both "amiability" in going along with her family's rejection of her fiancé, but then maintained the "constancy" to still be in love with him later], to manage the chaotic world of internal object relations in a conscious and coordinated way.â€
I suddenly took note of the concept of “object†relations, and this helped me understand “Jung often spoke of the anima as his bridge to the Selfâ€, (or “the unconsciousâ€), as I had always heard. Or, “the face we show to the unconscious†as it was specifically put to me once. This mirroring the Persona being “the face we show to the [conscious] outer worldâ€.
“Objects†are images of people that remain within us, and we often filter our relations with other people through. The theory [of Melanie Klein] focuses on infancy, and a “good breast†that satisfies the child, in contrast to a “bad breast†that forms when nursing is withheld.
I’m not sure whether “objects†would be classified as kinds of “complexes†themselves; they seem opposite, in a way. Complexes, as I've mentioned before (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/general-psychology/69138-understanding-complexes.html), are miniscule senses of “I†within the psyche; like alternate “subjectsâ€. “Object†is in this sense the opposite of “subjectâ€; you know, like in “objective/subjectiveâ€. So I’m not sure if these would be considered unconscious senses of “Iâ€; they’re more like unconscious senses of “you†or “they†that get projected out.
This helps understand stuff I’ve been experiencing internally, and also express how this works for all types through the inferior function.
Like one internal “object†for me is of my father speaking to me about “life†and dealing with people, often all coldly and authoritatively.
So this “object†comes up anytime I hear authoritative pontificating on something, or justification of the way things are.
So what happens, is [as a TP] I respond to this inner object through a Fe anima that introjects the values expressed by others, and is totally hypersensitive to their expressed emotional states,feeling obligated by them.
But, if they run counter to ego’s Ti sense of order, then I resist, but still with this heavy sense of guilt(which fuels stronger and stronger resistance), and projecting the internal critical father object onto them.
So when the anima feels threatened by object, I figure the Hero/Persona then tries to fight against the object in the outer world with logic, but this doesn’t work in the inner world.
So to extend this to how it must work for the other types:
TJ Persona approaches the external world with external sense of logical order. Fi anima approaches inner objects by personally relating, and the person feels their “integrity†is being questioned. Ego resists by sticking with logical decision, which “speaks for itselfâ€.
FP Persona approaches external world through personally identifying. Anima approaches internal objects through external sense of logical order. Because of the dominant worldview, they might be less likely to resist, and thus go along with Te.
FJ Persona approaches external world through external sense of interpersonal order. Anima approaches internal objects through internal sense of logical order. They may or may not resist, depending on the objective standard. Ti may see it as compatible with its sense of order, and then they will internalize the external threat.
SP Persona approaches outer world through focus on emergent tangible detail. Anima approaches internal objects through storehouse of invisible patterns. [not really sure how they react to Ni, but I guess it might be similar to how Si reacts].
SJ Persona approaches outer objects through focus on internal storehouse of tangible details. Anima approaches inner objects through emergent invisible patterns. Ego will feel exposed to nebulous random information, and will resist by sticking with known facts.
NP Persona approaches outer world through emergent external patterns and meanings. Anima approaches inner objects through internal storehouse of tangible facts. Ego will feel bound, and demand freedom.
NJ Persona will approach outer objects through internal storehouse of intangible patterns and meanings. Anima will approach inner objects through emergent tangible detail. Ego will feel it has no framework to understand things through.
So does this ring true for anyone else?