In her case, she's not dumb...
And changing jobs is not rocket science.
This, precisely- is what I do not understand.
There is rarely an odd situation with these people. From my perspective, it's like someone who thinks they have a broken leg or wants to have a broken leg so that they don't need to run a marathon. In this situation, it looks like the worst thing to do is comfort them and support them, as they have been sitting in their comfort zone for so long. People crawl out of bad situations and ruts all the time. There is no obstacle in picking up an application or just doing the one simple thing that's going to make the change. To me it all looks so helpless and lazy from people who don't necessarily have sincerely helpless situations.
In the case of my above friend, the first person who responded was, "I agree- it's terrible what working with the "public" will do to you." That's a comforting statement that won't get either of them anywhere. As if "working with the public" caused all of the problems to begin with. No ownership whatsoever.
Exactly, from your perspective it seems easy, but your perspective is limited to the surface. Your perspective does not see fears, insecurities & wounds deeply rooted from past experience. The biggest obstacles are not physical - they're emotional and psychological.
Whose says that comfort means coddling them or removing responsibility anyway? You can make an effort to understand why someone feels & acts in a certain way without condoning it as a good course of action or mindset. To understand does not mean to agree.
The idea is to get someone to trust you to open up, so you can see the real issue and then maybe actually be able to offer advice that is helpful or help them begin to change their thought process. To do that, you have to show you are on their side, and not going to just criticize them & write off their feelings with obvious advice. Asking questions & listening is really all that is required - it comforts by simply taking an interest in them, which communicates that you value them which builds confidence, and it encourages them to think things through to work towards a solution. You serve as a sort of thought prompt for them to come to their own conclusions, as opposed to dictating ideas.
It seems clear you are fed up with this person & consider her a lost cause, in which case, maybe it's time to sever the ties. You're both dragging each other down otherwise.
Exactly, from your perspective it seems easy, but your perspective is limited to the surface. Your perspective does not see fears, insecurities & wounds deeply rooted from past experience. The biggest obstacles are not physical - they're emotional and psychological.
Whose says that comfort means coddling them or removing responsibility anyway? You can make an effort to understand why someone feels & acts in a certain way without condoning it as a good course of action or mindset. To understand does not mean to agree.
The idea is to get someone to trust you to open up, so you can see the real issue and then maybe actually be able to offer advice that is helpful or help them begin to change their thought process. To do that, you have to show you are on their side, and not going to just criticize them & write off their feelings with obvious advice. Asking questions & listening is really all that is required - it comforts by simply taking an interest in them, which communicates that you value them which builds confidence, and it encourages them to think things through to work towards a solution. You serve as a sort of thought prompt for them to come to their own conclusions, as opposed to dictating ideas.
It seems clear you are fed up with this person & consider her a lost cause, in which case, maybe it's time to sever the ties. You're both dragging each other down otherwise.
Yes, ISFJ- great guess.
I have a lot I could say about the topic in general, being one of those "stuck" people for so many years myself... but as soon as you head into ISFJ territory, now you have someone who values duty, responsibility, and keeping things the same.
ISFJs tend to feel a lot of responsibility for situations and people. They often operate under the "should" rule, not the "what is possible" rule. It doesn't matter if it makes sense, it doesn't matter if it hurts, it doesn't matter if you're miserable; if there is a "should" involved, they'll refuse to budge.
I don't know how much of that is playing into it, but it could be part of it. I think it's easy for ISFJs to stay in bad relationships out of a sense of duty.
life is too short to spend solely with cats, but also too short to be all dismayed about other people not being "rockstar achievers" or something.
I'm kind of looking for more answers about the mindset- like Wolfy's above. What brings people to these sad conclusions about their lives?
If she's a Si-dom, I'd go with repeated failed efforts, seeing the same bad results over & over, not knowing how to make changes, fear of the unknown, etc.
It's going to vary a lot from person to person, as personal experiences & feelings are different.
i am watching this thread - as i would like to learn more about this tendency in people. when i hate something my first instinct is to change/shake-up/move.
While having a few margaritas at a TGIFriday's after work one evening, I was hanging out with a table of folks who were all contractors from various industries that were building a new prison in a town about 45 minutes from here.
One of the fellows uttered a priceless pearl of wisdom toward the end of the evening.
A young man in the group was interested in one of the ladies, and she was interested in him, but not letting on that she was. As she and her friend left for the ladies room, the guy next to me told the young would-be ladies man the following: "You have to make the move big guy, if you don't act you will lose your opportunity."
The young guy said "I'll make a move when I feel it's the right time."
The other dude then said: "You are afraid of your greatness, not failure, everyone is."
I almost fell out, not only because the saying and the timing of the remark were classic, but because it is true.
FAILURE is easy to live with, there is no responsibility in managing its outcomes, but several free tickets to wallow in your own self pity.
Dealing with GREATNESS is a much more difficult matter. You must maintain your level of performance, you must not fall below a certain threshold, you must prove for more than a given moment that you have what it takes to be the man of the hour, the chosen one, the BBMFIC (Big Bad Motherfucker In Charge).
It is now my opinion that many people accept the role of the victim, in order to remain in the comfort of their failures, in order to forgoe trying to better themselves, in order be OK with barely maintaing the minimum acceptable level of performance that life places on them.
This type of thinking is a pity, for each moment we live is ours but once; each second that passses brings us one step closer to the grave. In my final moments the thoughts that will bring me solace are the great moments of my life, the times when I looked fate in the eye and forged an outcome of my choosing, the times when I rolled the dice on myself having what it took to make things happen and winning the bet. Those who embrace failure and mediocrity will pass into a different oblivion, unless they muster the courage to pursue their own greatness, and the fortitude to live with it once they attain it. umpyouup:
I think that OrangeAppled's quote can really apply to anyone -- it's not an "Si" thing, necessarily. Anyone, when faced with repeated failure to gain some control over their own circumstances, could I think respond in the same manner. IMHO, one of the, and probably *the* best indicator of quality mental health is the belief that you have some sort of control over your life. Some people just don't -- they certainly lack the belief, and may or may not lack the circumstances, objectively, to make a change. It's definitely a vicious cycle of downer-ism that saps the will. A positive-feedback loop of misery, of sorts.If she's a Si-dom, I'd go with repeated failed efforts, seeing the same bad results over & over, not knowing how to make changes, fear of the unknown, etc.
I don't agree with this -- not that it's impossible or that it never occurs, but that it's completely outside the scope of the psyche of the person who's "stuck in the rut" of failure and lack of control over their own life. People who are stuck in a cycle of failure and feel like their outcomes are independent of their own actions rarely, if ever, consider success at this scale. At *most*, it's a fear of *trying and failing again*... trying and failing being worse than simply not trying and clutching to a glimmer of hope that "at least I didn't fail again". Success, or especially greatness, is never even considered -- certainly not enough for it to be the major factor in fear.Halla said:Dealing with GREATNESS is a much more difficult matter. You must maintain your level of performance, you must not fall below a certain threshold, you must prove for more than a given moment that you have what it takes to be the man of the hour, the chosen one, the BBMFIC (Big Bad Motherfucker In Charge).