does anyone else feel that NFPs resemble NTJs more than NFJs?
I like it in general but I think the two most neurotic people I have EVER met have been ENFPs.... they put me to shame in that aspect. just sayin'. Speaking of which, I have to go see one of them today and she intimidates the crap out of me. A neurotic 8w7 ENFP is an interesting sight to behold.
my ENFP cousin is neurotic as hell. he sometimes reminds me of a pregnant woman lol
enneagram plays a big role...ENFP 2s can seem like ENFJs, ...
I like it in general but I think the two most neurotic people I have EVER met have been ENFPs.... they put me to shame in that aspect. just sayin'. Speaking of which, I have to go see one of them today and she intimidates the crap out of me. A neurotic 8w7 ENFP is an interesting sight to behold.
Seymour said:facets of neuroticism for Big 5 (at least on the Revised NEO Personality Inventory) are things like: Anxiety, Hostility, Depression, Self-Consciousness, Impulsiveness, and Vulnerability to Stress. So I could see different MBTI types correlating to different facets of neuroticism.
huh, that's really interesting. how do they group all of those things into one category? i would be high anxiety, low hostility, medium depression, high self-consciousness, medium impulsiveness, low vulnerability to stress... i usually score high on neuroticism in the big 5 though. which is part of why i hate the big 5.
I agree that the neuroticism scale is a turn off (where's the up side?)... but I find the facets of neuroticism kind of helpful as categories.
The Big 5 Neuroticism scale doesn't correlate to any of the MBTI dichotomies... so I think it's orthogonal to MBTI type. Also, exactly what one means by "neurotic" varies... the facets of neuroticism for Big 5 (at least on the Revised NEO Personality Inventory) are things like: Anxiety, Hostility, Depression, Self-Consciousness, Impulsiveness, and Vulnerability to Stress. So I could see different MBTI types correlating to different facets of neuroticism.
For example, my overall level of neuroticism isn't too high, but I score highest on self-consiousness and depression (although I haven't been depressed in years).
I read somewhere that there IS an upside to neuroticism. I can't remember what is was though... . Strangely enough, I want to say it had something to do with productivity in chaotic environments, due to interpreting the good/bad of situations more readily .
bbc.co.uk said:Some scientists have suggested that Neuroticism was beneficial in evolutionary terms. Early man may have found it advantageous to live in a population where certain individuals had a high sensitivity to threats to the group's survival.
There is evidence to suggest that Neuroticism, when combined with high scores in personality traits such as Conscientiousness, can result in a powerful work ethic and a will to succeed.
A problem with the big five is it implies that one side of the dichotomy is more desirable than the other. Its better to be calm than neurotic. Its also better to be extraverted, agreeable, conscientious, and open to experience.
I think a moderate level of neuroticism can actually be beneficial. They are the ones that are more likely to notice that things aren't quite right and in some cases get worked up about it. Getting worked up isn't necessarily bad because it can lead to positive change if its channeled constructively. Someone who is *too* calm may be more likely to deny that things are or could be problematic, which can just cause further trouble down the road.
Ah, I found it! It was from the bbc Big 5 test: https://www.bbc.co.uk/labuk/experiments/personality/
I'd say that's similar to what I was remembering...a high sensitivity which moves one to adapt quickly and get stuff done. This actually directly contradicts what other sources say about high neuroticism, which is coping less in chaotic and stressful situations because of being overwhelmed by bad feelings. Although most acknowledge that while high neurotics experience more lows that calm types, they don't necessarily experience less highs. What you have is someone is less neutral, not necessarily less happy. This is an important consideration for a later point I'll make below...
For myself (as I score HIGH on neuroticism), the BBC explanation holds true. I find myself energized by panic & chaos, and hitting walls spurs creativity. It's almost like the significance these "lows" imparts moves me to act where I'd otherwise procrastinate. I actually don't stick my head in the sand & wallow in bad feeling. I run on the adrenaline of the panic, and can be extra creative (this is why I am soooo deadline-oriented).
I wouldn't be surprised if there was correlation with enneagram 4 and neuroticism also, because e4s seek highs & lows in life as "inspiration", feeling they need them to create.
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Nice! Thanks for tracking that down!Ah, I found it! It was from the bbc Big 5 test: https://www.bbc.co.uk/labuk/experiments/personality/
I'd say that's similar to what I was remembering...a high sensitivity which moves one to adapt quickly and get stuff done. This actually directly contradicts what other sources say about high neuroticism, which is coping less in chaotic and stressful situations because of being overwhelmed by bad feelings. Although most acknowledge that while high neurotics experience more lows that calm types, they don't necessarily experience less highs. What you have is someone is less neutral, not necessarily less happy. This is an important consideration for a later point I'll make below...
For myself (as I score HIGH on neuroticism), the BBC explanation holds true. I find myself energized by panic & chaos, and hitting walls spurs creativity. It's almost like the significance these "lows" imparts moves me to act where I'd otherwise procrastinate. I actually don't stick my head in the sand & wallow in bad feeling. I run on the adrenaline of the panic, and can be extra creative (this is why I am soooo deadline-oriented).
A problem with the big five is it implies that one side of the dichotomy is more desirable than the other. Its better to be calm than neurotic. Its also better to be extraverted, agreeable, conscientious, and open to experience.
OrangeAppled said:bbc.co.uk said:There is evidence to suggest that Neuroticism, when combined with high scores in personality traits such as Conscientiousness, can result in a powerful work ethic and a will to succeed.
At least one Big Five source I saw ascribed the highs to extraversion... which I thought was a bit of a bummer.
I thought that was more of a Perceiver thing in general to be a bit adrenaline driven (rather than just schedule driven). I kind of like it when there is some crisis at work, partially because you get to see new sides of people and relate to one another in a different kind of way. I also enjoy the intensity and purity of going "all out" on something for a period of time (even though the rest of my life can suffer during those periods).
IDK, I guess my point here is I wouldn't be surprised if they're measuring "highs" or happy feelings in extrovert ways. Sometimes what gets the introvert off sounds dull & depressing to the extrovert.... I think introverts can even be convinced something is wrong with them for not responding in the same ways to the same stimuli.
I think this is the result of expressiveness. Introverts just seem more impassioned. It's hilarious how people who are acquaintances think I have some zen thing going on, commenting on how I am always calm, must never get depressed, seem confident, etc. It's just because I am not that expressive (although my family would say differently....but they see another side, the temperamental, neurotic oen). Another anecdote: My teenage INTJ cousin is the stereotypical robot. I took him to an amusement a few years ago when he visited for the summer and he had no reaction to anything the whole time and barely said 5 words. Come to find out later that was the highlight of his trip and he had a blast. His excitement simply was not expressed, so to any onlooker, he did not seem happy at all (in fact, he even looked a bit pouty).
IDK, I guess my point here is I wouldn't be surprised if they're measuring "highs" or happy feelings in extrovert ways. Sometimes what gets the introvert off sounds dull & depressing to the extrovert.... I think introverts can even be convinced something is wrong with them for not responding in the same ways to the same stimuli.
I think it can be related to P also, but it has less to do with highs & lows of emotions then. I think then it's more of how time is viewed & avoiding closure until mandatory.
Yes. I've always assumed that dance clubs and karaoke were better suited for extroverts and sensors, but I know there are some introverts who enjoy it. I find most social hotspots understimulating and boring.
the other thing is, sometimes i think that Fe doms will take care of things that i really don't need someone taking care of for me, but they're not there to support me when i need support. like, when i'm having a hard time emotionally, what i need is someone to sit with me and empathize and just be accepting. ime (experience with mom, several close friends), Fe doms really don't like doing this. they find it useless, superfluous. the other thing i notice with NFJs is that there's often a barrier of superiority when they're helping. there's a tangible feeling of "i am the helper, you are the helped", instead of a more equal "we are both hurt persons and it's my turn to help you now". which is not to say i don't love ENFJs. i have watched over and over again the ENFJs i know do incredibly selfless things. they'll devote themselves to mentoring someone, get up and out at 3 in the morning to help someone in distress, clear their schedule for the evening to make sure that someone's going to be all right. it's beautiful.
and the way i care for people... i'll sit with them for hours and talk if that's what they need. make them presents, write them letters, help them figure out what to do next. i'll drive them across five states in the middle of the night, if that's what they need. i will do just about anything for someone i love. but it's especially when i'm passionately discussing something that i can't deal with others' needs... the problem is that Fi is attuned to inner emotions, and when my feelings are overwhelming, i can't pick up on others' very well.
true, and true. whatever enneatype i am, i come off as Fe IRL, apparently. in the forums it's easier to see the difference. i think that's part of why i get along better in general IRL with FJs than with fellow NFPs.