Sorry to start another thread with "Fe" and "fake" in the title, but I've been wondering about this.
If you're INFJ and you think Fe/trying not to make others feeling uncomfortable with your emotional states is "fake" - does that mean you're not really INFJ?
Hi there!
OK, I'm not an INFJ, and I'm certainly not an expert in how the blessed cognitive functions work, but I'm offer my opinion anyway, because that's how I roll.
A random quick note, if a given person of any type somehow committed an "epic fail" with regard to implementing one of their "big 4" (primary, secondary, tertiary, and inferior) cognitive functions, does that make them a "fake" ABCD, WXYZ, ENTJ, ISFP, etc?
Also, If I'm not wearing a plaid blazer and selling a shitty used car to a penniless old lady am I fake ESTP?
I don't mean things like being smarmy and sucking up to someone you secretly despise; or overly-fawning customer service, or anything like that. I'm talking more about civility to those you're not crazy about, and not constantly showing your emotional states to everyone regardless of whether the other person is capable of taking them on or not.
I think that there is a great amount of misunderstanding about how people FEEL and how they ACT in many common circumstances/occurrences.
Of the many things I'm a big believer in, three of the most important to me are HONESTY, SINCERITY, and CONSISTENCY.
NOW - Let's put these virtues in realistic CONTEXT.
There are a myriad of different social interactions that we all must engage in throughout our lives, in fact each and every day.
Thus, there are different levels of "intimacy" or "disclosure" that the people we interact with are appropriately entitled to.
Please take the following list of generic "people types" into consideration to humor me:
[PEOPLE TYPES]
(1) Your Best Friend
(2) Someone You've Only Recently Met, A "New Friend"
(3) Your Boss
(4) A Clerk at the Grocery Store
(5) A Co-Worker (Not a FRIEND, Just a Person Who Works at the Same Place as You)
Now then, let's take the two specific examples you listed above:
Let's Call This
"Example 1" - it's basically
"insincerity" right?
SilkRoad said:
"I'm talking more about civility to those you're not crazy about."
Let's Call This
"Example 2" - it's essentially
"full-on, open emotional disclosure" (F.O.E.D.) right?
SilkRoad said:
"[I'm talking about] constantly showing your emotional states to everyone regardless of whether the other person is capable of taking them on or not."
Now then, let's take my list and add columns for Examples 1 and 2, and ask ourselves the following:
"When dealing with the people in this list, is it appropriate and/or prudent at any given time to either be "insincere" with them, or to not "fully disclose my emotions/feelings toward them?"
I'm filling in the grid with "Yes" or "No" in each cell.
I'll offer explanations after...
[PEOPLE TYPES]....................[EX. 1 - "Insincerity"]...................[EX. 2 - "F.O.E.D."]......[MY EXPLANATIONS]
(1) Your Best Friend.........................[NO].......................................[NO].....................[Your best friend always
..................................................................................................................................deserves
..................................................................................................................................sincerity
................................................................................................................................and full disclosure of what's
..................................................................................................................................going on in your life, that's
..................................................................................................................................why they are your best
...................................................................................................................................friend. They TRUST, LOVE,
...................................................................................................................................and
..................................................................................................................................ACCEPT you.]
(2) Someone You've Only
Recently Met, A "New Friend"...........[NO].......................................[YES]....................[EX 1] You have no reason to be insincere with someone you've just met. How do you expect them to know you, and like you for who you are, if you are insincere with them? Just don't be a fool and trust them like they are your best friend. You have no idea what they are about, so use some common sense. [EX 2] Is fully disclosing your emotional state/feelings the time/etc. really warranted at this point? How will it add
value to interaction with them? Does it have potential to make them feel awkward/hurt their feelings/make them unecessarily angry/etc.? Is it not more appropriate to get to know them better before "opening the floodgates?"]
(3) Your Boss..................................[YES]......................................[YES].....................[EX 1] If your boss is an asshole, and you
tell them to their face, are you prepared to support yourself and your family without any income? [EX 2] Your boss is your boss. They are not your psychologist, confidant, or guardian angel. They are employing you to help them make money. What benefit does F.O.E.D. contribute to your employment relationship with your boss?
(4) A Clerk at the Grocery Store.......[YES]......................................[YES]......................[EX 1] Does the kid really need to know
that the 17 facial piercings they have freak you out? Is that necessary? [EX 2] How will F.O.E.D. benefit the two minutes it takes to pay for your groceries? Will it make your life better? Will make the clerk's life better? Will it end world hunger? No, it will not.]
(5) A Co-Worker (NOT a Friend).......[YES]......................................[YES]......................[EX 1] You have to work with this person,
in their proximity, on regular basis. Is it necessary to get into conversations with them that are not work related? - and that are likely to cause conflict? No. If they are being offensive or rude or unprofessional, then talk to them. But - if they are simply more "cheerful" or "glum" than you, or have a demeanor of some other kind that's simply "different" can't you just "live and let live?" [EX 2] You'd better not give them F.O.E.D. How do you know they won't use that information against you, to try to get you fired, or to discredit you in the eyes of your supervisor, or simply to be a mean fucktard? You don't. They could be a fucking sociopath. Be smart.]
SO! What's my point?
It's this:
(1) I don't think that people who feel they have to display F.O.E.D. in all ways to all people in their lives are "GENUINE" or "SINCERE." They could also be thought of as "IMPOLITE" or "RUDE" or "DEVOID of SOCIAL COMMON SENSE" or "IGNORANT."
(2) I don't think that people who are "INSINCERE" are disingenuine at all if they are being samrt and protectintg themselves, their well being, or their family's well being. Let's face it, there are going to be people in this life that we DON'T LIKE and HAVE TO DEAL WITH, or maybe even HAVE TO BE NICE TO. Does this mean that you're a fake, sleazy, backstabbing fucktard because you aren't wearing your feelings on your sleeve? Hell no. You might actually be "SMART" or "CIVILIZED" or BOTH.
I ask because I know a couple of people who say they identify with the INFJ type, but I'm pretty sure they're respectively INFP and xNFP (either withdrawn ENFP, or outgoing INFP.) There are other indicators that I would think indicate they're Fi users rather than Fe, but this is a big one. They have both used the words "fake" in reference simply to being nice to people they aren't crazy about, and restraining emotional intensity in certain situations.
Sounds to me like they might just have poor social skills, or a nasty attitude, or both.
I'm not saying any of that makes them bad people, or that none of it is warranted in their cases, I'm just calling it how I see it via your description.
For example: I say "A lot of people find it difficult to be around emotional negativity and dark intensity a lot, so I find that being like that most or all of the time tends to push people away." INFP: "Oh, so I should just be completely fake then?" (Admittedly, regardless of type, neither of them are particularly stable - they would even say that themselves.)
To the extent that their "emotional negativity" or "dark intensity" makes them rude or unprofessional, they should consider shutting their mouths and adjusting their attitudes/behaviors. Just because someone (regardless of their MBTI type) has "emotional negativity" or "dark intensity" doesn't mean that they are entitled to emotionally vomit on everyone else in this world, or to be rude, mean, bitchy, shitty, unprofessional, or rude. Unless you want to live ina cave by yourself and not ever have any contact, however simple it may be, with other human beings, it is necessary to learn how to be socially competent, and to have manners, and respect for other people.
Now, if either of these people are in a huge fucking state of depression and it is affecting their ability to live a normal, productive life, then I hope they are seeking help, but I must be the bearer of bad news that not everyone they encounter will care. Some people flat out don't give a shit if you are going through a rough time, and your life may be alot easier if you use some social common sense in dealing with them, rather than exposing yourself to some asshole that you don't have the energy or desire to deal with. It's just as much a factor of self-preservation as it is civility.
SilkRoad said:
Is it possible to be an Fe user and still think that non-total-emotional-disclosure is "fake"?
In my opinion, NO.
That sounds like "bullshit" to me actually.
I think it depends on how Fe is manifested. If it is in genuine display of caring and affection, it isn't fake.
+1
But when it ends up becoming a mask to cover up one's true emotions (like appearing happy when really feeling sad so then not to disappoint others), it seems less authentic.
This sounds like an example of interaction between FRIENDS or FAMILY. In that case I agree with you, get it off your chest, in the end everybody has to know where everbody else stands/how they feel about things; even if they don't like it. Then, once all the cards are on the table, everyone has to figure out how they are going to live in peace considering the social dynamics of what's going on. You'd be surprised. Some of my (extended) family members who at one point really drove me up the fucking wall, and I let them know it, and honestly I also "let them have it" a few times, have revealed a side of themselves at a later date that was unbelievably kind and altruistic.
BUT - again, I'm going back to the example of being professional, if you're unhappy, do your BOSS or your CO-WORKERS need to know about it? I'm not talking about being "fake happy," I'm simply talking about "doing your job." I think it's totally fine to not wear your emotions on your sleeve yet still retain being genuine and sincere, it's all about discretion, there's a time and a place for everything.
It's my dominant and I sometimes consider it "fake", to be blunt. There is a difference between genuine interest and the "fake" interest.
YES!
The fake sort of Fe is what I call the Splenda Effect.... sweet but leaves a bad aftertaste or to put it another way, it's like eating a good greasy meal but your throat get coated with grease after the meal. It's feels good for awhile but ends up feeling slimy.
OMG, I love "The Splenda Effect" - that is SO funny, yet damn accurate.
Good, genuine Fe can give you a warm fuzzy feeling..... and becomes contagious to everyone around the person. It basically lights up the room.
+1,000!
Looking forward to thoughts, comments, opinions, recipes, and even haikus...
-Alex