[MBTI General] Sometimes

[autumn]

Sometimes I just wish I could let young people with a strong N know that things will be so much better for them when they are older.

Anyone else?

autumn

 

[Economica]

Sometimes I just wish I could let young people with a strong N know that things will be so much better for them when they are older.

Why can't you?

I remember my mother (also an INTJ) telling me when I was around 13 and socially frustrated that my time would come. That worked for me.

 

[cafe]

I wouldn't probably have believed it when I was young, so I normally don't say too much. I just commiserate.

 

[Economica]

What can I say... I'm really future oriented.

 

[cafe]

What can I say... I'm really future oriented.

I did hope, but it was only the faintest glimmer. Turning thirty was one of the best things I've ever done. Wish I'd done it years sooner.

 

[white]

Sometimes I just wish I could let young people with a strong N know that things will be so much better for them when they are older.

Anyone else?

autumn

that's comforting. I wonder how old is older though. Always feels like a very long road to fit in/be accepted for whom you are.

 

[Domino]

I'm with Cafe. I never would have believed it, especially not with all the psycho garbage going on around me. Being a really strong N is the pits when you're growing up in a bad environment. I still envy Sensers so much, and sometimes wish I was one, even though I realize I'm the furthest thing from an S as you can possibly get (with exception to Sphinxy Wildcat).

It's kind of you to try though, Autumn. Some kid (like child Economica) benefited from that approach.

 

[Economica]

I'm with Cafe. I never would have believed it, especially not with all the psycho garbage going on around me. Being a really strong N is the pits when you're growing up in a bad environment. I still envy Sensers so much, and sometimes wish I was one, even though I realize I'm the furthest thing from an S as you can possibly get

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think an S otherwise identical to you would have been happier in the bad environment you grew up in?

It's kind of you to try though, Autumn. Some kid (like child Economica) benefited from that approach.

A key element is that my mother was able to convincingly argue that my future would be brighter than my present. I don't see why that approach shouldn't comfort any future-oriented child...?

 

[Domino]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think an S otherwise identical to you would have been happier in the bad environment you grew up in?

Oh no, I didn't mean happier. NO ONE could have been happy in that environment (point of fact, many people I grew up with were Ss and they were miserable too). What I should clarify is that I envied (still envy) their "in the now" and ability to roll with the punches. I saw them as being less than immortal and more than human. I was resilient, meaning I could absorb a lot of impact and still come back from it, but the Ss were TOUGH. Just flat-out tough and sturdy. I wanted to be tough and sturdy. I was NOT. Suffering was like being vivisected, and my Ss were never writhing around even when they were losing their minds.

A key element is that my mother was able to convincingly argue that my future would be brighter than my present. I don't see why that approach shouldn't comfort any future-oriented child...?

What made it a convincing argument though? I couldn't take much direction from adults back then because they were the ones setting the world on fire and I was having to put it out. The roles were reversed. I had one, maybe two adults in my formative years who were able to instill some sanity and "this/you will change/get better" without my automatic brain response of "Reject this -- it came from an adult and adults are crazy".

 

[Sandy]

I did hope, but it was only the faintest glimmer. Turning thirty was one of the best things I've ever done. Wish I'd done it years sooner.

My 30s still was not as good as my 40s!

 

[autumn]

I wonder how old is older though. Always feels like a very long road to fit in/be accepted for whom you are.

Yes, this is true. It may very well take a lifetime sometimes, and I don't know if anyone is ever universally accepted (and that's okay). It's definitely a work in progress thing.

 

[autumn]

Why can't you?

I could! I think I just meant on some kind of dramatic world-saving kind of level, but on the practical level it definitely starts with the individuals you encounter in everyday life and making a positive difference for them.

And I do realize that not everyone with a strong N preference may have a hard time with it as a kid, too. But for those who really feel like aliens, I can imagine it would be a great comfort to know that (though there are no guarantees) the potential for their lives to get a lot better in that regard seems to increase exponentially as they enter adulthood.

 

[Economica]

Oh no, I didn't mean happier. NO ONE could have been happy in that environment (point of fact, many people I grew up with were Ss and they were miserable too). What I should clarify is that I envied (still envy) their "in the now" and ability to roll with the punches. I saw them as being less than immortal and more than human. I was resilient, meaning I could absorb a lot of impact and still come back from it, but the Ss were TOUGH. Just flat-out tough and sturdy. I wanted to be tough and sturdy. I was NOT. Suffering was like being vivisected, and my Ss were never writhing around even when they were losing their minds.

How were they not happier if they were suffering less?

What made it a convincing argument though? I couldn't take much direction from adults back then because they were the ones setting the world on fire and I was having to put it out. The roles were reversed. I had one, maybe two adults in my formative years who were able to instill some sanity and "this/you will change/get better" without my automatic brain response of "Reject this -- it came from an adult and adults are crazy".

What if the one or two adults you listened to back then had argued that your future would be brighter than your present for <insert reasons that your current present is in fact better than your past>, do you think you would have been comforted then?

But for those who really feel like aliens, I can imagine it would be a great comfort to know that (though there are no guarantees) the potential for their lives to get a lot better in that regard seems to increase exponentially as they enter adulthood.

I agree - as I said, worked for me.

 

[Domino]

How were they not happier if they were suffering less?

I'm going to further clarify by defining what *I* mean by "happy" and see if that helps. To me, happy indicates a level of contentment or livability in spite of external chaos. The Ss I knew, even the sensitive ones, seemed to be able to suffer and hate it and think the chaos was nuts, but NOT internalize it. They'd be angry, or frustrated, or they'd act out, etc, but it never seemed to break them or get into their bloodstreams like poison as it did with me. They could really "take a hit" and roll with it. I, on the other hand, seemed to have no choice but to absorb everything like a sponge. It wrecked my health, made me a ball of nerves, jacked my already hot temper through the roof. I could never seem to get a catharsis.

My mother is a very strong S and she's told me that being an N must be a chore because she knew from getting a crash course in raising two N kids how much like spooky otherworldly wild animals we can be.

Happy is bad word to apply, I think, to this situation. I would be more inclined to choose "permanently unaffected" or "temporarily affected only". The S ability to ground is what I wish I had, but don't. I'm not saying they're armor-plated, but Ss can filter out a great deal of stuff that I can't even begin to ignore/look away from, and they have a level of ease in their environment that can't be taught, so I pretty much want what I can't have.

What if the one or two adults you listened to back then had argued that your future would be brighter than your present for <insert reasons that your current present is in fact better than your past>, do you think you would have been comforted then?

Yes. Yes, I probably would have. I know it would have made me a lot calmer.

 

[cafe]

My 30s still was not as good as my 40s!

That is good news, especially since I'm coming up on 40 in a few years!

 

[Economica]

The Ss I knew, even the sensitive ones, seemed to be able to suffer and hate it and think the chaos was nuts, but NOT internalize it. They'd be angry, or frustrated, or they'd act out, etc, but it never seemed to break them or get into their bloodstreams like poison as it did with me. (...) Happy is bad word to apply, I think, to this situation. I would be more inclined to choose "permanently unaffected" or "temporarily affected only". (...) I'm not saying they're armor-plated

I don't know why the Ss you grew up with dealt better than you did, but trust me, Ss can be permanently affected by a bad environment. I know plenty who did not manage to roll with it and who were in fact broken.

I'm sure you mean well, PP; I'm just highly sensitive to inaccurate S/N generalizing because it makes MBTI-interested Ss uninterested in MBTIc.

Yes. Yes, I probably would have. I know it would have made me a lot calmer.

I believe we have a mission. Away, to comfort the young aliens!

 

[autumn]

I believe we have a mission. Away, to comfort the young aliens!

I think you pretty much said it perfectly right there!

 

[Domino]

I'm sure you mean well, PP; I'm just highly sensitive to inaccurate S/N generalizing because it makes MBTI-interested Ss uninterested in MBTIc.

I hope you don't mean to say that I'm generalizing or casting a negative shadow on Sensers simply because I express an opinion about one or two aspects of them that I like? I've repeatedly encouraged another ISFJ friend to remain here at the board IN SPITE of her being treated rather badly, so if I was down on or misguided about Sensers, I seriously doubt that I would have so many of them as close friends.

You're going to find "generalizations" about ANY two groups when you actively compare them. Is that not what a comparison is? Is that not the whole point - beyond personal understanding - of the MBTI? Compare, contrast, build on. By bringing up the subject of strong N children needing a word of encouragement, you selected one type over the other to discuss and drew a comparison indirectly - why wouldn't you say the same things to a strong S child? What's the implication there?

I can appreciate your sensitivity to the plight of the S venturing into the MBTI (I have many long emails/PMs on the very subject, which is why I find this 'I'm sure you mean well' post a little ironic), but you might turn that truly noble defense on someone who's actually doing them harm, not me.

 

[GZA]

What happens when you get older?

 

[Domino]

What happens when you get older?

Well, for one thing, we all get breasts.