Little Linguist's Type Rant

[Amargith]

Her very insistence on coming to a definitive conclusion at all costs is characteristically Te.

I've never seen an ENFP spend anywhere near this much time and effort trying to figure out something like what four-letter label best describes her personality. Ne would more likely get bored and recognize that she can still look for her identity and express individualism without getting a precisely quantifiable result from some kind of personality "test."

The insistence on having that completed result has been the driving force here all along. Her Ne only comes in later, in fragmented bursts, questioning her latest decisions and repeatedly wrecking Te's progress. This is pretty typical for a tertiary function, too.

And man, I just can't see Fi as the auxiliary here. Its effect is far too weak and unconscious. I see her desire to get herself figured out as just another means of applying Te--"I need to know which category I am in so that I can deal with life's tasks most efficiently, and it upsets me when I cannot determine things like this with certainty."

It's just really really dominant Te. You see a lot of yourself in her simply because you share the same functions, but your priority orders are quite different--your Ne and Fi both dwarf hers and dominate your perspective to a much higher degree. There's waaaay too much Te going on here for a distant tertiary function.

bolded: You're looking at one I *still* haven't decided on my type. Ne might get bored but will be redirected there by Fi which *needs* an answer. I cannot feel right and happy without Fi being sorted out. And that took me years...still is taking time atm.

Yes, I admit I might be biased coz I recognize a lot, but that's also for definite reasons.

And I personally see her Ne-ing like mad, trying to feed Fi info, Fi getting conflicted, her Te coming in and going: That's it, I'm done with this, as it's giving me a mighty fine head ache! That's so ENFP, it hurts. Really. I've done that. I still do that. Stress me, and I'll show you. For that matter, read my rant on men not understanding the meaning of the word 'friendship'.

The second guessing stems from Fi being overloaded. You cannot judge things that way. Especially not things that aren't directives or objective. So they end up in a loop.

And my Fi has only started developping since I got here btw. Before that, I was all Ne. Btw, her Ne is stronger than mine, from what I've seen. LL also still has a pretty good working Te. I envy her for that. Really. At least she can get things done. But she does it in bursts. She's constantly playing catch up to her chaos with Te, from what I've seen. I have a friend who's like her and very ENFP. She cannot stand chaos though. She was raised by SJs, who taught her order is the most important thing. It doesn't come natural to her. She just does it coz that's what's expected of her. I recognize that feeling. And I see that in LL.

 

[simulatedworld]

bolded: You're looking at one I *still* haven't decided on my type. Ne might get bored but will be redirected there by Fi which *needs* an answer. I cannot feel right and happy without Fi being sorted out. And that took me years...still is taking time atm.

Yes, I admit I might be biased coz I recognize a lot, but that's also for definite reasons.

And I personally see her Ne-ing like mad, trying to feed Fi info, Fi getting conflicted, her Te coming in and going: That's it, I'm done with this, as it's giving me a mighty fine head ache! That's so ENFP, it hurts. Really. I've done that. I still do that. Stress me, and I'll show you. For that matter, read my rant on men not understanding the meaning of the word 'friendship'.

The second guessing stems from Fi being overloaded. You cannot judge things that way. Especially not things that aren't directives or objective. So they end up in a loop.

And my Fi has only started developping since I got here btw. Before that, I was all Ne. LL still has a pretty good working Te. I envy her for that. Really. At least she can get things done. But she does it in bursts. She's constantly playing catch up to her chaos with Te, from what I've seen. I have a friend who's like her and very ENFP. She cannot stand chaos though. She was raised by SJs, who taught her order is the most important thing. It doesn't come natural to her. She just does it coz that's what's expected of her. I recognize that feeling. And I see that in LL.

I think you're doing what NFPs frequently do in terms of assuming what would motivate them to behave in a certain way is always the explanation for what motivates others to behave that way.

I think Te plays a much bigger role in this than you're allowing, and that Ne is playing the supportive role here. I've already explained why and I think my argument will speak for itself against yours.

P.S.,




Can I be an NFP now?

 

[Amargith]

*smiles* We'll agree to disagree, it's for LL to figure out anyway

 

[simulatedworld]

*smiles* We'll agree to disagree, it's for LL to figure out anyway

Did you read the numerous, detail-oriented dissections of every function description she could find? She rated Te as her highest priority every single time.

 

[Amargith]

I'm aware of that. Those tests are a)highly inacurate and b) don't exclude bias. If you like one function better than another, coz you consciously prefer it, you'll automatically select that as your highest. I have no doubt that LL finds Te immensely important and useful. Is it then also the function that comes most naturally to her? Hell no. It could be...but I personally am betting that's not the case. What you naturally prefer and what you consider as the right thing to do and therefore prefer consciously are two different things. As I said. Fi looks useless to most people. It's no wonder that Te is preferable to that...consciously

 

[Little Linguist]

How do you develop an introverted function? Do I have one?

My whole life has been a struggle for balance, and it's very hard for me to achieve.

You're right, I shouldn't bother with this in public. It's not helping. Just not constructive. I need to think about this by myself, or I'm just going to make everyone against me and still not get anywhere.

Forgive my lack of judgment.

 

[Amargith]

You won't figure this out overnight, so realize that it is ok to be in limbo for a while. Self-reflect. Go with a fine-tooth comb over your values, what's important to you, why that is, and how it makes you feel. What exhausts you, what recharges you, are those the same things that are important to you, what do you appreciate, etc. Forget about what is expected of you, what other people would like, and what you were taught was important. What do you *feel* is important. Silence all those other voices so you can hear that one voice clearly.

You'll find it answers some stuff to do that, and it raises a whole load of new questions as well, which you then can ask around about again, to see how other people's views compare to yours. Then push the repeat button coz it's time for self-reflection again, once you have their input.

Take your time for this. And realize that it *is* important, and useful, and even necessary. It's not some obstacle you need to get rid of. This is who you are. And determines your happiness. Give it the consideration it deserves. Also, it is ok to once a while go..my head hurts, I need to focus elsewhere. Leave it, adn come back to it later, you'll automatically do so. And you'll find that the time away has allowed you to mull things over and see things in a different light, allowing you to progress steadily. Good luck

 

[Jeffster]

How obnoxious.

*REALLY OBNOXIOUS POST*

That was nice of you to label your post like that before you made it, thanks.

But don't believe me; I'm a dumbass.

Excellent point.

 

[Jeffster]

How do you develop an introverted function? Do I have one?

My whole life has been a struggle for balance, and it's very hard for me to achieve.

You're right, I shouldn't bother with this in public. It's not helping. Just not constructive. I need to think about this by myself, or I'm just going to make everyone against me and still not get anywhere.

LL, you could go your whole life without understanding "introverted functions" and your life would be no worse for it. You've figured out what things are important to you in life, so go for them. That's all that really matters.

Frankly, I find Amargith and simulated discussing this like they have any clue what's going on in your head to be arrogant and laughable. I encourage you to keep sharing whatever you want to share, whether know-it-alls on an internet forum want to accept it or not.

 

[simulatedworld]

LL, you could go your whole life without understanding "introverted functions" and your life would be no worse for it. You've figured out what things are important to you in life, so go for them. That's all that really matters.

Frankly, I find Amargith and simulated discussing this like they have any clue what's going on in your head to be arrogant and laughable. I encourage you to keep sharing whatever you want to share, whether know-it-alls on an internet forum want to accept it or not.

Good old Se.

Your post = "boo hoo it's real hard and I don't get it"

and I have no interest in explaining it to you.

 

[Amargith]

Jeffster, just guessing at it..but I agree with your post in general

 

[simulatedworld]

I'm aware of that. Those tests are a)highly inacurate and b) don't exclude bias. If you like one function better than another, coz you consciously prefer it, you'll automatically select that as your highest. I have no doubt that LL finds Te immensely important and useful. Is it then also the function that comes most naturally to her? Hell no. It could be...but I personally am betting that's not the case. What you naturally prefer and what you consider as the right thing to do and therefore prefer consciously are two different things. As I said. Fi looks useless to most people. It's no wonder that Te is preferable to that...consciously

She didn't take a test; she just read functional descriptions and tried to explain which ones applied to her most.

If she's wrong about her own preferences, then obviously anyone trying to read a type for her will be wrong. That's why everyone's guesses keep changing--she keeps changing the data set people have to work with.

Jeffster, just guessing at it..but I agree with your post in general

You agree that you're an internet know-it-all who doesn't actually know anything?

 

[Amargith]

She didn't take a test; she just read functional descriptions and tried to explain which ones applied to her most.

If she's wrong about her own preferences, then obviously anyone trying to read a type for her will be wrong. That's why everyone's guesses keep changing--she keeps changing the data set people have to work with.




You agree that you're an internet know-it-all who doesn't actually know anything?

Everything in his post, but that sentence, though I can see why he would come to that conclusion

SW, if you let me do the same thing, I'd go for Ni, Fi and Se as my main functions. Coz I admire them most. I *want* to be proficient in them, and consequently, I'm not bad at them, coz I do use them a lot. But I'm no where near a natural at Ni or Se.

I'm not saying this is the case with LL for sure, but it is imo a possibility.

 

[The Outsider]

Eh, just don't take it too seriously.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

No, the other dynamics explained in my post make her ESTJ. She's Te+Ne; it explains the overcompensating dominance/frustration with inefficiency as well as the constant attempt to change and reevaluate her type. She is very conflicted because Te demands completed results while Ne pulls her toward redefinition and change.

Compounding matters is her lack of a solid introverted function. As a Te+Ne ESTJ, she lacks solid self-understanding that would come from Si and thus her self-image is grossly overdependent upon the approval of others.



She doesn't know how to self-reflect. That's the problem--she's stuck in an extroverted loop and depends entirely on external validation. Why do you think she's spent 50+ pages seeking opinions from others about her? She doesn't know how to build a self-image for herself without an introverted function.

Te: I must choose a category for myself! Anything less would indecisive and unquantified, which is unacceptable.

Ne: But what if the chosen category doesn't have a broad enough context to fully explain? I'd better ask for more opinions from others!

And so on and so forth until doomsday...

Hey Simulatedworld! I have made an astounding discovery! I think that you are a Feeling type because you seem to be trying to prove something to someone, and thats Fe is it not!? That is, Fe is seeking approval from someone and you're seeking approval by trying to get someone to agree with you.

bolded: You're looking at one I *still* haven't decided on my type. Ne might get bored but will be redirected there by Fi which *needs* an answer. I cannot feel right and happy without Fi being sorted out. And that took me years...still is taking time atm.

Yes, I admit I might be biased coz I recognize a lot, but that's also for definite reasons.

And I personally see her Ne-ing like mad, trying to feed Fi info, Fi getting conflicted, her Te coming in and going: That's it, I'm done with this, as it's giving me a mighty fine head ache! That's so ENFP, it hurts. Really. I've done that. I still do that. Stress me, and I'll show you. For that matter, read my rant on men not understanding the meaning of the word 'friendship'.

The second guessing stems from Fi being overloaded. You cannot judge things that way. Especially not things that aren't directives or objective. So they end up in a loop.

And my Fi has only started developping since I got here btw. Before that, I was all Ne. Btw, her Ne is stronger than mine, from what I've seen. LL also still has a pretty good working Te. I envy her for that. Really. At least she can get things done. But she does it in bursts. She's constantly playing catch up to her chaos with Te, from what I've seen. I have a friend who's like her and very ENFP. She cannot stand chaos though. She was raised by SJs, who taught her order is the most important thing. It doesn't come natural to her. She just does it coz that's what's expected of her. I recognize that feeling. And I see that in LL.

Oh, you haven't decided your type!? But I have! You're confused and you're not willing to be pinned down into one particular personality category! You're rebellious at heart which means you're the opposite of an SJ. Ha! You're an SP. I know an ESFP who is just like you, so its got to be your type! Who else could be more rebellious and confused than an ESFP!?


------------------------------------------------------

P.S

Of all you people, I think simulatedworld was the real winner of the folk typological method. For him it is as simple as this: you're overcompensating and that means you're a dominant Te type with a malfunctioning inferior Feeling! He even said something to the effect of only a Te type could do this!

By implication, if you're acting out too much I could say you're an ESFP or if you're looking for approval a great deal, you've got to be an Fe type. After all, only an ESFP can act a certain way and only an EFJ can act another way!

 

[Jaguar]

Of all you people, I think simulatedworld was the real winner of the folk typological method. For him it is as simple as this: you're overcompensating and that means you're a dominant Te type with a malfunctioning inferior Feeling! He even said something to the effect of only a Te type could do this!

I've heard enough from Simulated about my Te, to last a lifetime.

 

[simulatedworld]

Hey Simulatedworld! I have made an astounding discovery! I think that you are a Feeling type because you seem to be trying to prove something to someone, and thats Fe is it not!? That is, Fe is seeking approval from someone and you're seeking approval by trying to get someone to agree with you.

If you're going to willingly misread and intentionally misinterpret everything I write, I'm not going to spend much time correcting you because we both know it's an exercise in futility.

I do use Fe; it's part of the ENTP function set. Using an F function doesn't guarantee that someone is an xxFx type.

Of all you people, I think simulatedworld was the real winner of the folk typological method. For him it is as simple as this: you're overcompensating and that means you're a dominant Te type with a malfunctioning inferior Feeling! He even said something to the effect of only a Te type could do this!

By implication, if you're acting out too much I could say you're an ESFP or if you're looking for approval a great deal, you've got to be an Fe type. After all, only an ESFP can act a certain way and only an EFJ can act another way!

Good lord, what a dumb argument. I'll make a real response when you learn to read instead of Ne-skimming every tenth sentence and deciding this gives you a complete understanding of what I'm saying.

 

[Jeffster]

Your post = "boo hoo it's real hard and I don't get it"

There's no "boo hoo" in my post whatsoever. Boy, you are REALLY bad at reading people.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

If you're going to willingly misread and intentionally misinterpret everything I write, I'm not going to spend much time correcting you because we both know it's an exercise in futility.

I do use Fe; it's part of the ENTP function set. Using an F function doesn't guarantee that someone is an xxFx type.




Good lord, what a dumb argument. I'll make a real response when you learn to read instead of Ne-skimming every tenth sentence and deciding this gives you a complete understanding of what I'm saying.

There was no argument, just a caricature of what you've posted. I can go back and quote your statements where you say for example 'no other than an ENFJ would behave in this or that way', which is the same thing as saying that only an ENFJ could behave in a certain way, in other words, if you behave in this or that way, then you are an ENFJ.

None but the most childish ENFJs would request help and then mouth off in intentionally demeaning and obnoxious ways simply because people's well-intentioned help didn't work for them. .

Since you said that, my remarks still stand as by your findings if you have a certain behavior, than necessarily you are a certain type.

My remark that you are an EFJ was not an expression of my belief that you are ( I don't think that you are); however, if I was to use your method, I could justifiably conclude that this is indeed your type.

Using an F function doesn't guarantee that someone is an xxFx type..

By your lights it sure should. None but an F could be seeking someone's attention as much as you would!

 

[Amargith]

:rolli: Guys, can we not let this go over into a warzone? Maybe you didn't agree with the way me and SW went about it, but at least we had a civil debate about something we speculated and theorized about, something we both found interesting. And we shared some point of views. If anyone gets to complain about it, it's LL, as she was the topic.

This is just pretty much picking on each other for no good reason, without any hope of a constructive outcome.