[NF] Introverted Feeling vs. Extraverted Feeling

[BlueScreen]

I'm an Fe user and I express my emotions selectively. If I feel something that I think would detrimental to express (like anger), I will keep it inside. If I feel something that I think could be helpful or productive or bonding (like happiness), I will express it.


People aren't robots, so this isn't always accurate, but it's true 80% of the time.

Agree. I think somewhere in the back of everyone's mind they should have the words "function preferences" repeating . It's also good to remember functions are another set of common traits/preferences, just like MBTi types. Most people don't score 100% on any function in function tests, so they may have a different selection of the avialable traits in a group to someone else who uses the function strongly. I was thinking MBTi would go well as an RPG: pick a type and get more points in certain areas to use when selecting traits.

 

[Oaky]

Oh so now I'm an Fe dom? Since when? Since Ragingkaysuki said so?

Excuse me everyone. xNFJ coming through here.

Why change the P when you can change the F?

Anyways, I don't believe there are any hard and fast rules on the functions that people use. People use all the functions differently at different times.

 

[Thalassa]

Why change the P when you can change the F?

Anyways, I don't believe there are any hard and fast rules on the functions that people use. People use all the functions differently at different times.

Because Fe is FJ, not FP.

I do have some Fe. But it isn't my dominant function by a long shot.

 

[Oaky]

Because Fe is FJ, not FP.

I do have some Fe. But it isn't my dominant function by a long shot.

Even so, ENTPs have Fe as their tertiary function.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Yeah, I think if there's a big difference between keeping feelings from public knowledge (which is exactly what OrangeAppled is claiming that she does) and rejecting thoughts or feelings because they are disagreeable to the mind. The disagreement here is over the meaning of the words "suppress" and "repress."

I'm confused, though, because it seems like emotions, by their nature, seek expression. So keeping them in, for whatever reason (so that you can go over them while you're alone, or so that you can forget them, or whatever), requires a certain amount of control. The emotions must be forced down and out of sight if you wish to keep them from public expression. That control is a form of repression. I guess the difference is that, in one situation, the person only represses the feelings long enough for them to get away and deal with it on their own. In the other, the person permanently represses the feelings. So it all boils down to a temporal distinction.

IDK, as an introvert, so much of my world is internal that externally expressing emotions doesn't make them any more real.
There is a control on the outside, but internally I am still feeling the emotion. It's doesn't hide away internally, only visibly to others.

This is why if I am pushed (positively or negatively), then I might express the emotion. If I cannot fully escape, then there are subtle indications of my emotion. This is why Fi-doms might seem moody and prickly at times. There's probably just a lot on our minds and emotions we're processing, and you're interrupting us

 

[Orangey]

IDK, as an introvert, so much of my world is internal that externally expressing emotions doesn't make them any more real.
There is a control on the outside, but internally I am still feeling the emotion. It's doesn't hide away internally, only visibly to others.

This is why if I am pushed (positively or negatively), then I might express the emotion. If I cannot fully escape, then there are subtle indications of my emotion. This is why Fi-doms might seem moody and prickly at times. There's probably just a lot on our minds and emotions we're processing, and you're interrupting us

But your use of the word "control" belies the fact that you do suppress/repress emotions in the presence of other people.

I never said that not making your emotions visible means that you're repressing them permanently (making them go away forever, never to feel them again). You're only repressing them temporarily so as not to make them visible to others. But there's still repression going on, even if you do visit your feelings again later in a safer, solitary environment. Don't tell me, as an INFP, that you've never cried to yourself before. Or felt the urge to paint or write or sing or dance your feelings away. Emotions demand expression, so when they're not expressed immediately (as in the case of an Fi user in the presence of others), it means that they're being repressed (held down, controlled).

The fact that you do repress emotions around others doesn't mean that you're the type of person who tucks your feelings away somewhere deep inside your subconscious never to visit them again. I know that's the common meaning that we get when someone says, "he represses his emotions." But when we look at the act of keeping your emotions hidden from others, it is clear that this involves repression to a certain degree. It seems like you are hung up on the negative connotation of the word "repress."

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I never said that not making your emotions visible means that you're repressing them permanently (making them go away forever, never to feel them again). You're only repressing them temporarily so as not to make them visible to others. But there's still repression going on, even if you do visit your feelings again later in a safer, solitary environment. Don't tell me, as an INFP, that you've never cried to yourself before. Or felt the urge to paint or write or sing or dance your feelings away. Emotions demand expression, so when they're not expressed immediately (as in the case of an Fi user), it means that they're being repressed (held down, controlled).

The fact that you do repress emotions around others doesn't mean that you're the type of person who tucks your feelings away somewhere deep inside your subconscious never to visit them again. I know that's the common meaning that we get when someone says, "he is the kind of person who represses his emotions." But when we look at the act of keeping your emotions hidden from others, it is clear that this involves repression to a certain degree. It seems like you are hung up on the negative connotation of the word "repress."

I don’t agree. To say someone ‘represses’ their emotion insinuates there’s some effort involved in holding the emotion back, as if on part of the super-ego or whatnot. I know from personal experience that it isn’t ‘repressed’ so much as it simply lingers inside a little bit longer. It needs more processing.

This is why Fi-doms might seem moody and prickly at times. There's probably just a lot on our minds and emotions we're processing, and you're interrupting us

EDIT: In the fable 'the tortoise & the hare', is the turtle being 'repressed'? No. It's just slower to get to the finish line.

I’m not sure this really has much to do with the Fe/Fi distinction anyway.

How about this as an example of Fe/Fi difference: you’re sitting outside with a group of friends in someone’s backyard. All the sudden a skunk walks into the middle of the group. Someone using more Fe would be in tune with the fact that everyone is probably nervous because it’s common knowledge that it’s bad to get hit by skunk spray. Someone using more Fi might be in tune with the reasons why it’s bad to get hit by skunk spray (but less in tune with the fact that everyone else around him/her is equally as nervous). Does this example work?

 

[SciVo]

On my current reasoning:

Fi judges previously learned knowledge.
Fe judges the current situation.

Don't think this means one cares about the situation and the other doesn't.

Fe+Ni understands from their previously learned knowledge, then judges the current situation with a focus on people.

Fi+Ne understands from the current situation, then judges their previously learned knowledge with a focus on people.

Fe+Si looks in detail at their previously learned knowledge, then judges the current situation with a focus on people.

Fi+Se looks in detail at the current situation, then judges their previously learned knowledge with a focus on people.

Meh. I don't buy it. I think it's a matter of directionality, not temporality. My understanding in a nutshell is that Fe judges itself by societal (or at least peer group) norms, and Fi judges society by self-generated idiosyncratic norms

For example, I made a bad conservative when I thought I was one, since I was always disagreeing with inherited wisdom and social consensus. I'm full of original moral philosophies, which I've gradually realized isn't entirely normal. An ENFJ would probably be much better at conservatism than I was.

But your use of the word "control" belies the fact that you do suppress/repress emotions in the presence of other people.

I never said that not making your emotions visible means that you're repressing them permanently (making them go away forever, never to feel them again). You're only repressing them temporarily so as not to make them visible to others. But there's still repression going on, even if you do visit your feelings again later in a safer, solitary environment. Don't tell me, as an INFP, that you've never cried to yourself before. Or felt the urge to paint or write or sing or dance your feelings away. Emotions demand expression, so when they're not expressed immediately (as in the case of an Fi user in the presence of others), it means that they're being repressed (held down, controlled).

The fact that you do repress emotions around others doesn't mean that you're the type of person who tucks your feelings away somewhere deep inside your subconscious never to visit them again. I know that's the common meaning that we get when someone says, "he represses his emotions." But when we look at the act of keeping your emotions hidden from others, it is clear that this involves repression to a certain degree. It seems like you are hung up on the negative connotation of the word "repress."

Maybe. But I don't subjectively experience it that way. Usually, it seems more that I transform my expression of an emotion than that I repress the feeling (even temporarily); for example, calmly explaining to someone that they violated a social boundary (instead of blowing up on their rude ass), all while the volcano is erupting inside regardless.

There are times when I have to totally suppress a feeling's expression, such as when I make such a funny joke in an imagined dialogue that I have to fight for a good twenty seconds to keep from exploding into huge belly laughs and making everyone think that I'm crazy. However, it's so difficult precisely because it's not the norm.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Yeh, he did infer that with some of the other comments. Was just saying suppression might have been the correct word to describe what we do.

Indeed; it was the subtlety of the word that I appreciated when I reflected on the statement.

The confusion in this thread is locked into the interpretation of the word suppress. Suppress does not have to imply burying or denying or even repressing. It means simply to keep inside oneself in this context.

And that's why I liked it.

I do feel my feelings - there's no repressing that!

 

[SciVo]

How about this as an example of Fe/Fi difference: you’re sitting outside with a group of friends in someone’s backyard. All the sudden a skunk walks into the middle of the group. Someone using more Fe would be in tune with the fact that everyone is probably nervous because it’s common knowledge that it’s bad to get hit by skunk spray. Someone using more Fi might be in tune with the reasons why it’s bad to get hit by skunk spray (but less in tune with the fact that everyone else around him/her is equally as nervous). Does this example work?

I doubt it. I can be very other-oriented, anticipating others' needs. It's just that I do so by creating unique personal values through solitary contemplation and then projecting them out instead of internalizing social norms and then projecting them out. I'm not necessarily right or wrong more often; but I'm right or wrong in more unusual, unexpected ways.

 

[BlueScreen]

Meh. I don't buy it. I think it's a matter of directionality, not temporality. My understanding in a nutshell is that Fe judges itself by societal (or at least peer group) norms, and Fi judges society by self-generated idiosyncratic norms

For example, I made a bad conservative when I thought I was one, since I was always disagreeing with inherited wisdom and social consensus. I'm full of original moral philosophies, which I've gradually realized isn't entirely normal. An ENFJ would probably be much better at conservatism than I was.

My question would be, does nature know anything of society or philosophy? This is where I have the biggest problem with these definitions. They are obviously descriptive from what we know. Though, the underlying processes may still lead to these traits because of the direction they push a person to take. The big question seems to be, does the theory have anything to do with psychology and cognitive processes, or just the way they manifest as social traits?

I think I get what you are saying now, though. Internal/external focus? But this is what I was addressing. I judge the things going on inside me: my world view, my memories, my theories, my knowledge, my feelings, etc. Fe seems to judge the social situation, behaviour, displayed emotions, etc. I might throw information out into the external world from what I learn from my judgments, but I don't really judge the external world situation directly (at least with an F).

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I doubt it. I can be very other-oriented, anticipating others' needs. It's just that I do so by creating unique personal values through solitary contemplation and then projecting them out instead of internalizing social norms and then projecting them out. I'm not necessarily right or wrong more often; but I'm right or wrong in more unusual, unexpected ways.

Believe it or not, the bolded type is actually what I was trying to figure out how to illustrate. You just said it much better.

 

[Thalassa]

Believe it or not, the bolded type is actually what I was trying to figure out how to illustrate. You just said it much better.

Yes, I agree. It has more to do with how values are formed rather than whether or not personal emotions are outwardly expressed through things like crying.

 

[SciVo]

My question would be, does nature know anything of society or philosophy? This is where I have the biggest problem with these definitions. They are obviously descriptive from what we know. Though, the underlying processes may still lead to these traits because of the direction they push a person to take. The big question seems to be, does the theory have anything to do with psychology and cognitive processes, or just the way they manifest as social traits?

Our psychology cannot develop healthily in isolation. Even many birds need to hear their species' song for their birdbrains to produce it correctly, and they're so much simpler. Our brains are essentially rationalization machines, constantly generating explanations for everything. As we necessarily develop in a social environment, it is unsurprising to me that some lean more heavily on external sources of meaning than others do.

ETA: I'll have to contemplate your edit.

 

[Lady_X]

But your use of the word "control" belies the fact that you do suppress/repress emotions in the presence of other people.

I never said that not making your emotions visible means that you're repressing them permanently (making them go away forever, never to feel them again). You're only repressing them temporarily so as not to make them visible to others. But there's still repression going on, even if you do visit your feelings again later in a safer, solitary environment. Don't tell me, as an INFP, that you've never cried to yourself before. Or felt the urge to paint or write or sing or dance your feelings away. Emotions demand expression, so when they're not expressed immediately (as in the case of an Fi user in the presence of others), it means that they're being repressed (held down, controlled).

The fact that you do repress emotions around others doesn't mean that you're the type of person who tucks your feelings away somewhere deep inside your subconscious never to visit them again. I know that's the common meaning that we get when someone says, "he represses his emotions." But when we look at the act of keeping your emotions hidden from others, it is clear that this involves repression to a certain degree. It seems like you are hung up on the negative connotation of the word "repress."

totally agree with that. i think i do repress them and control how they're expressed and deal with them on my own...i feel like it's my responsibility...i don't look for that outside myself often...when i do...it's more as a sounding board...talking things through until i understand how i feel about it.

 

[Oaky]

Introverted feeling is judgement with an emotional slant that causes the individual to view the object on a Subjective level. It is primarily a silent inaccessible function that is difficult to conceptualize. Therefore, unlike its extraverted counterpart, Extraverted Feeling, it is entirely individualistic, with a leaning toward the mystical. Introverted feeling is generally disconnected with typical external stimuli. Introverted feeling is only concerned with the external to the extent that the object has some relevance to a deep, internal value. Its primary objective is to harmonize ideologies, concepts, relationships etc. with the internal guiding force.

The bold part Would this count to prove a point?

 

[Oaky]

Introverted Feeling
The introverted feeling function concerns itself with the values expressed in the archetypal aspect of situations, often relating to the actual situation by measuring it against an ideal. When the actual is found wanting, introverted feeling can become intensely disappointed. Although it often finds it hard to articulate its judgments, or simply prefers to keep them to itself, introverted feeling also tends to ignore social limits regarding the communication of critical responses, to the point of appearing to depreciate others. It may withhold positive feelings as insincere and fail to offer healing gestures to smooth over difficult situations. In its shadow aspect, introverted feeling becomes rageful, anxious, and sullen. It may withdraw all support for attitudes it has decided are simply wrong, even at the risk of rupturing relationship and agreed-upon standards of fellow-feeling.

Same point, another source.

 

[BlueScreen]

Same point, another source.

Yep, I can be annoyingly perfectionist about things and not express unless I think it really says what I want it to or captures it.

 

[BlueScreen]

Contemplation finished! The difference is that as an ENFP with dominant Ne, you rely even more on your perceptions than your judgments, and especially when dealing with the external world. My working hypothesis is that you use tight Ne/Fi teamwork for navigating social situations, and they work so well together that you mistook it for Fe.

Interesting. Doesn't a perception still need to precede a judgment though? I've been thinking recently, is there a chance that we differ more in the tertiary function than anything? ie. I combine Ne and Fi, Ne and Te. You combine Ne and Fi, Si and Fi.

How is Fi different as a dominant Fi?

 

[Lady_X]

The bold part Would this count to prove a point?

Same point, another source.

those were great..yep...just like that.