[INTJ] INTJ Female Role Call (For Future-Information-Gathering Purposes)

[Economica]

I'm answering selectively as well as partially in order to 1) protect the innocent and 2) save time.

Career choices

Education-wise I went with (whaddyaknow!) economics. I love the subtle power of the economic way of thinking about life (Cheat sheet: It's the incentives, stupid ) and the degree opens up a lot of doors, so I truly have no cause for regret on that score. However, I attribute my belief that economics was the single best choice for me to the magic of cognitive dissonance.

Friendships with the two genders (just plain gender ratios of who makes up your friend circles/how do you connect with other females/etc.)

Based on the actual ratios throughout my life, I have only a slight preference for male friends, but I have to say I thrive in male-dominated environments.

Paranoias

The thing about paranoid people is that they don't think they're paranoid.

Religion

I am an atheist. I also lack belief in free will. So in my worldview, there is no god, no afterlife, no absolute meaning with life, and to boot we are all biological robots. Maximize pleasure and minimize pain while it lasts, folks!

Academic interest areas

The social sciences.

Types of guys you are romantically attracted to (or, i suppose, females, too)

Historically, the most important trait is that he must be a P. Every guy I've ever been attracted to (or who's been more than superficially attracted to me) has been a P.

I've dated Introverts, but whatever spark we had quickly petered out.

I've also dated Sensers but only for lack of available iNtuitives.

All in all, I'm comfortable narrowing the list down to ENXPs.

My SO is an ENFP and I believe that match to be the optimal one for me, but I acknowledge that due to the aforementioned magic of cognitive dissonance I have no credibility whatsoever in constraining myself further than the two types I undeniably have the most chemistry with. Me Extroverted iNtuition.

... Uhh, you did mean MBTI types, right, Usehername?

Social skills (because we can be all over the map, from the limited previous evidence volunteered by female INTJs on these boards)

For an INTJ they are excellent. (Of course, there is always room for improvement. )

Parental relationships

I haven't seen either of my parents since 2002. The short version is that they failed my cost-benefit analysis. I'll be happy to elaborate upon request.

Interest in kids

I have no maternal yearnings as of yet (I'm 25) and a serious doubt as to whether having kids is worth it. I think it will come down to whether my SO asks to have them.

Favorite authors/books/etc.

Books I regularly recommend others:

Ayn Rand - Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead <-- I recommend these to people who feel torn between self-interest and guilt. (Disclaimer)
Anton LaVey - The Satanic Bible <-- I also recommend this to people who feel torn between self-interest and guilt.
Anton LaVey - The Satanic Witch <-- I recommend this to women who need encouragement to maximize their looks.
Choderlos de Laclos - Les Liaisons Dangereuses <-- This is just a great read about NT intrigue and folly.

Pet Peeves!!



Displacement
Closed-minded certitude

How good are you with money

Hmm. Is living beyond one's means (i.e. borrowing) when young due to faith in one's eventual earning power being bad with money? If so, then I'm afraid I drag down the average on this one, but if it passes for sensible lifetime consumption-smoothing then I'm good with money.

Do you feel uncomfortable/out of character in a girly dress and a situation where you have to do the typical Girly Stuff?

I realized in my mid-teens that I could not get what I wanted out of life without maximizing my physical attractiveness, so I forced myself to get comfortable with the accoutrements of femininity. These days skirts are second nature to me and I can walk just fine in heels (but it kills my feet and so I only do it when I get real mileage out of it).

I'm not sure about the second part of the question. Either I must be comfortable doing typical girly stuff or it's been so long since I had to do it that I have forgotten what it's like.

How do you dress

1/2 corporate goth, 1/2 Se-challenged. I stick to black, white and grey.

I like to look good, but putting together outfits doesn't come naturally to me. Unfortunately I find that as a woman I cannot get away with wearing carbon copies of the same (perfected) outfit like my male INTJ friends can, but I would if I could.

Vices

Alcohol, caffeine and MBTIc.

Known areas of inter-relational problems

I'm working on my closed-minded certitude (see 'Pet peeves') which I think has been my major social flaw so far in life.

Fully mastering my introversion comes next. When I am low on energy, I retreat into an introverted bubble that has only the flimsiest of communication capabilities with the outside world. I accept that I need a lot of alone time, but when I run out of energy at inopportune moments it can be incredibly frustrating for both me and the people I'm with at the time. I'll have to improve either my energy expenditure or my communication from within the bubble - preferably both.

I'd like to be more naturally empathetic (as opposed to having to analyze what someone probably needs from me right now), but I'm not sure that one is doable.

Who were you in high school

Argumentative geek.

Expressing emotion in front of others

I don't have a problem expressing genuine emotion voluntarily. I'm not too good at the darker side of Fe (faking emotion). I don't like involuntarily expressing emotion, but who does?

Gift giving and receiving

I like giving gifts but I'm not one of those people who consistently manage to think of good ones.

I like receiving gifts but I dislike opening them in front of an attentive roomful of guests. Having all eyes on my Fe like that messes with my head. Once my SO gave me a pair of earrings and as I unwrapped the little jeweler's box, I felt the room go unusually silent and all I could think was "Oh no, now some of them think it's a ring!" I didn't know how to gracefully defuse that tension and ironically I ended up sounding awkward, like I had thought it would be a ring.

(For the record, proposals and marriages hold no meaning for me. What matters to me are the informal signals I pick up on of where a relationship (my own and others') is going.)

Touchy-feeliness

I'm very touchy-feely with my SO and I enjoy hugging my friends. Outside of that I shy away from having my personal space invaded or invading that of others (depending on the context, of course).

Messiness/organization of living environment

I'm ashamed to admit it's somewhat messy. I'm trying to optimize everything IKEA-style, but why spend energy on my living environment when there's a perfectly good forum to post on, right?

Most crazy plan you schemed and succeeded with

Get back to me in a couple of months on that one.

Most far-out success until now (that I will divulge publicly): I have co-founded a close-knit circle of friends in which the spelled-out criterion is that people work on their issues and problems instead of repressing them and taking the negative energy they cause out on others.

Hand tool adeptness

So far I haven't had to learn. (Much to the chagrin of my female ENTJ friend, I have no shame when it comes to old-fashioned divisions of household labor.)

Traveling

I lived abroad from age 9-15 and continued to travel quite a bit until age 18. Since then I haven't really traveled. If I ever lose my international perspective I suppose I'll have to go out and get it back, but otherwise I'm fine with staying put.

Life goals

- Romantic fulfillment Check.
- Excellent friends Check.
- Financial independence

Things that make you stressed

- Not understanding things - especially myself.
- Not seeing a way to deal with a situation (feeling impotent). :steam:
- Having to act on the spur of the moment without time to think first.

Things that make you awkward in situations

- Excessive heat. I hate to sweat (outside of exercising); it's my Achilles' heel.
- Having all eyes on my Fe (see 'Gift receiving and giving').

What do you see as the point of life?

See 'Religion'.

 

[Metamorphosis]

How good are you with money

Hmm. Is living beyond one's means (i.e. borrowing) when young due to faith in one's eventual earning power being bad with money? If so, then I'm afraid I drag down the average on this one, but if it passes for sensible lifetime consumption-smoothing then I'm good with money.

Excellent. You have just explained my spending habits for me.

 

[Usehername]

Questions for Economica:

1. Re: the relationship w/ your parents: was it so bad that it was beyond worth letting go, or was it a tip-in-the-negative direction that you are fine with choosing? Also, you said you're still friendly with your brother? Was this a kids-vs.-parents thing?

2. I know you don't want to divulge personal details, but can you tell us where you've lived/where you live to some greater degree of detail? I'm interested b/c you seem to be in tune with all the Americanisms (even more than me and I'm Canadian) but yet clearly aren't American. Did you move around a lot?

3. I can understand how you're uncertain about having kids, but being scared of their MBTI type not fitting with you baffles me (assuming you're with the ENFP).
(I'm figuring this: If they're N, there's no problems.
So, if they're ESxx, they'll be free spirits and connect more with your ENFP. IF they're ISxx, they'll be out of your face enough that you can recharge and when you're actively socializing with them, and then I'm certain your Motherhood Hormones will kick in and you'll bond just fine with any introverted S. (Remember, you're raising them from teh beginning. You can at very least get a balanced S if you've got two Ns parenting. Or at least teach them N skills so they're comfortable on your territory, sorta like when immigrant parents move and their kids are naturally the new culture, but they still fit in with their parents when at home? Bi-S/N kids if they're not natural Ns? They may be at home in their S world, but still fluent in N. Surely that'd be enough when it's juiced alongside parenting hormones.)
I could care less what MBTI type my kids are; I'm scared of them being mentally challenged. I don't know how I'd do with a kid like that.

 

[Usehername]

Excellent. You have just explained my spending habits for me.

But Eco has a career. Aren't you a college student with no real direction (just like me)?

 

[Metamorphosis]

But Eco has a career. Aren't you a college student with no real direction (just like me)?

Touche.

It is still true, though. I have a completely unfounded faith in my ability to be financially stable later in life, which influences my spending habits...now.

 

[Usehername]

Touche.

It is still true, though. I have a completely unfounded faith in my ability to be financially stable later in life, which influences my spending habits...now.

Meta, you and I need to figure out how to pwn our lack of concentration/lack of care toward our grades. Someone once told me that possibly this thing they call a "transcript" might affect our future. (Are your grades terrible or just not as good as they could be? Luckily mine aren't too bad they could just be much better.)

 

[Metamorphosis]

Meta, you and I need to figure out how to pwn our lack of concentration/lack of care toward our grades. Someone once told me that possibly this thing they call a "transcript" might affect our future. (Are your grades terrible or just not as good as they could be? Luckily mine aren't too bad they could just be much better.)

Let's put it this way. I think my current GPA was like a 3.2 until this semester (2 C's...1 in Constitutional Law and 1 in Practicing Happiness...and no, that's not a joke). This semester, I will be lucky to pull 3 B's and 2 C's. The difference? I don't care about any of my classes this year. I have an online class with a group project! WTF? The strange thing is that I always feel this weight/stress whenever I think of school...then I'll take no tangible steps towards improving it.

I think my problem is that I'm more focused on improving other aspects of myself than school. Plus...it doesn't seem to be benefitting me in any noticeable way, including knowledge. Concerning the transcript thing...yeah...I'm constantly reminded how important the GPA, etc. is once you graduate...yet strangely I don't care at all. Like I said, I have an unfounded confidence in my abilities that will probably bite me in the ass one day (or prove to be correct, who knows).

Plus, I was used to coasting my entire school career up until college, pulling As without studying. Is that how it was for you?

Edit because I forgot to mention: A common theme in my life seems to be thinking about something so much that I don't actually follow through with it. I see this potentially causing problems in the future if it isn't curtailed.

 

[hotmale]

I think my problem is that I'm more focused on improving other aspects of myself than school.

Like I said, I have an unfounded confidence in my abilities that will probably bite me in the ass one day (or prove to be correct, who knows).

Plus, I was used to coasting my entire school career up until college, pulling As without studying. Is that how it was for you?

[/QUOTE]

Ha! Well in college, I learned that it was more about social graces that got you good grades than ability.

 

[creativeRhino]

Economica,

Parental relationships

I haven't seen either of my parents since 2002. The short version is that they failed my cost-benefit analysis. I'll be happy to elaborate upon request.

Interest in kids

I have no maternal yearnings as of yet (I'm 25) and a serious doubt as to whether having kids is worth it. I think it will come down to whether my SO asks to have them.

Re interest in Kids - see Parental relationships cost-benefit analysis...

In my late 40s I am surrounded by folks who are seeing the costs over the benefits of kids....

I love my niece and nephew, and my step-grand daughter. I can give them all back at the end of the day.....

I know a couple of INTJ females along with myself and I we all have avoided procreation.

 

[Economica]

1. Re: the relationship w/ your parents: was it so bad that it was beyond worth letting go, or was it a tip-in-the-negative direction that you are fine with choosing?

Hmm. I wonder how to measure that when my degree of certitude about having done the right thing cannot be used as a yardstick...?

Based on the shock it caused in the extended family and on the fact that our (ISFP) sister still sees them (albeit minimally) I think it must have been the latter.

Also, you said you're still friendly with your brother? Was this a kids-vs.-parents thing?

Yes - sequentially. First my (INTJ) older brother (with whom I have been close since my mid-teens) cut contact. Our sister condemned him for it and so he cut contact with her as well (their relationship wasn't exactly harmonious to begin with) whereas I thought I could succeed where he had failed. Then the weight of the problems shifted to me and a year later, I cut contact too. Our sister and I maintained contact at first, but after the weight had shifted to her (with her being in denial about it) she started to channel negative energy from our parents to me and so I ended it.

Fast-forward to four years later. Our sister writes us a letter saying that she now understands us and has minimized contact with our parents. The three of us reestablish contact in early 2007 and now we are as close as two INTJs and an ISFP can possibly be.

2. I know you don't want to divulge personal details, but can you tell us where you've lived/where you live to some greater degree of detail? I'm interested b/c you seem to be in tune with all the Americanisms (even more than me and I'm Canadian) but yet clearly aren't American. Did you move around a lot?

I've attended international (English-speaking) schools with a predominantly American clientele. (And a couple of Canadians - who were always most offended at being mistaken for Americans. ) I'll PM you the geographic details.

3. I can understand how you're uncertain about having kids, but being scared of their MBTI type not fitting with you baffles me (assuming you're with the ENFP).

It's not (just) the MBTI type lottery that I'm worried about. It's the whole investment aspect. I worry that my biological instincts and the magic of cognitive dissonance won't be enough to fully alleviate any regret I might feel about having given up so many years of my life. (Yes, I am that Disagreeable. )

But Eco has a career.

Right now I don't, actually. I'm formally a student but de facto unemployed. Of course, I can rationalize this D): I'm working up the certitude to pitch a master plan of mine to a potential sponsor.

 

[hotmale]

Right now I don't, actually. I'm formally a student but de facto unemployed. Of course, I can rationalize this D): I'm working up the certitude to pitch a master plan of mine to a potential sponsor.

Oh, so you're a freelance writer? Let's remember that a career is different from a job .

 

[Economica]

Oh, so you're a freelance writer? Let's remember that a career is different from a job .

... I love Americans...

 

[hotmale]

... I love Americans...

You do? Well we're not all as vulgar as the Sopranos.

 

[ptgatsby]

... I love Americans...

I think you meant SJs, not Americans

 

[Economica]

I think you meant SJs, not Americans

Attention Jennifer! Failure of N:

How so?

 

[ptgatsby]

How so?

Well, unless I'm missing the social differences between European and North American (which is possible!), I see this as a SJ viewing life through their "settle down and do this"/ stability vs the "Student finding their way/trying for a dream"/flightyness.

Don't worry, not jumping into a... career... is very Nish.

 

[Metamorphosis]

I consider a job and career two different things.

 

[Economica]

Well, unless I'm missing the social differences between European and North American (which is possible!), I see this as a SJ viewing life through their "settle down and do this"/ stability vs the "Student finding their way/trying for a dream"/flightyness.

I thought hotmale was uptalking my unemployed status...?

In my country, people downtalk everything and you have to drag their achievements out of them. Not only is the negative spin a downer, it's also based on false modesty :rolli:, so I much prefer the positive (/American) approach. Even if it does lead to converse problems of having to deflate euphemisms like 'between careers' into 'unemployed' at least you actually get to be honestly proud of and to celebrate your achievements.

 

[ptgatsby]

I thought hotmale was uptalking my unemployed status...?

In my country, people downtalk everything and you have to drag their achievements out of them. Not only is the negative spin a downer, it's also based on false modesty :rolli:, so I much prefer the positive (/American) approach. Even if it does lead to converse problems of having to deflate euphemisms like 'between careers' into 'unemployed' at least you actually get to be honestly proud of and to celebrate your achievements.

Oh, I thought he was alluding that writing (freelance, anyway) is not a "career" but a "job" (and an unsteady flighty one at that!).

Heh, ok, I see your view now. I hate the American way though I'm far more euro than amer that way. Although I did enjoy getting my dad to shut up about "finding a real job" after he asked how much I earned. *shrug* I guess it does work.

To be crude, whenever I do that, it feels like I've whipped out... something... from my pants and smacked it down on the table... "And how big are you?". Bleh.

 

[Metamorphosis]

To be crude, whenever I do that, it feels like I've whipped out... something... from my pants and smacked it down on the table... "And how big are you?". Bleh.

What? Y'all don't do that in Canada?