[ESTP] How do you deal with ESTPs?

[wolfy]

LOL, you'd like that wouldn't you?

I've learnt quite a bit, A LOT even, from this thread and it's helped smooth relations with my father and my ESTP brother.

So much for 'misinformation'.

Mo

I'm glad you got something out of the thread.

 

[Halla74]

LOL, you'd like that wouldn't you?

I've learnt quite a bit, A LOT even, from this thread and it's helped smooth relations with my father and my ESTP brother.

So much for 'misinformation'.

Mo

Ha! Not that I'm trying to protect my fragile ESTP ego or anything...
I guess I'm busted.

 

[maliafee]

My big brother is an ESTP. I'm an ISFP. We get along terrifically if we cook together or something. But if he gives me a sharp criticism (something he does to close family probably because he cares) in the guise of a hilarious jab/joke, I usually do the wrong thing and try to snap back. HAHAHA. I am no match! He is so quick. He can butterfly me in .2 seconds. Then I cry. THEN, about 20 minutes later, after he's cruelly dismissed me, he comes back, genuinely sorry, with an apology. "Sorry, little sis, but you have to admit, you were asking for it." I just give him a hug, happy that he's being nice again...

Slight change of subject: I don't recommend bothering ANY SP while they're working or busy. They have a hard time giving you any kind of sincere attention while being busy with something else. They are very infused in the whole DOING thing. My INFJ mom calls it a "business hat"... ha. But it's not really business as much as it is doing focus.
An ESTP is most likely ready to listen to YOU after you have listened to HIM. Sometimes I'll call my ESTP brother after not talking in a long time and for some reason he dishes on his life. He'll tell everyone we just had this great talk and the best in a long time. It matters to him. After he's dished, I could tell him my feelings and he'd be pretty receptive. But I never tell him "my feelings"... I just tell him what's going on with me and he can get the idea. I have a good sense of what not to tell ESTPs normally.

#3:
I had an ESTP best friend growing up. It was GREAT when we were together alone... nothing but fun and hilarity. THEN, we would hang out with her other friends and she would use me as guinea pig to make horrible fun of so she'd look hilarious to her friends! Needless to say that got old and after about age 20 (after a long time friendship) we hardly ever talk (NEVER). She tried to contact me every couple years (I'm now 28) after I separated myself from her mean behavior, but I'd just be distant and she gave up.

Another thing is that my ESTP friend growing up would get really annoyed if I ever mentioned an interesting fact. She would say, "Don't pull a Danny on me." Danny is my INTJ brother. She didn't like NT stuff. :/ Also, if I was ever sad or something, she got super weirded out, as though it was the heaviest of NF breakdowns. She would just leave me alone. "I didn't know what to do." she would say later. Geez, I was a little sad, is all. For a second. Not a big deal, so I thought...

Malia
ISFP

 

[Mitzy]

i agree with the fact stuff
"again with your shit?"
theyre controlling and stubborn
they get in these weird 'funks'
i say one thing, and they take it as a personal attack and put their walls up
theyre so one-sided
"#1)They do not deal with objective logic, it is subjective to themselves

#2)Needy, without being reciprocated"

if he says something that i dont relate or agree with, i try to see it from his viewpoint anyway and tell him that he does have some reason and eventually agree - partially, anyway
but if i mention any other possibilities or if i say something HE doesnt agree on. oh hell..
he becomes even more stubborn and non caring about any sort of explanation i have
even if its right and he know it, he just doesnt care and doesnt want to hear it.

you cant even have any fun with them [the kind of fun entp's like]
you cant charm your way in or 'manipulate' in any way shape or form
its just no
you have to leave them alone for them to think. which is annoying because entp's like me are too impatient. theres no way you can change their minds, they have to do it themselves


but i agree with maliafee
"THEN, about 20 minutes later, after he's cruelly dismissed me, he comes back, genuinely sorry, with an apology. "Sorry, little sis, but you have to admit, you were asking for it." I just give him a hug, happy that he's being nice again..."


i dont know. for me, its just one big roller coaster dealing with them. but i enjoy the challenge. at the end of the day, i feel proud that i got to defeat the monster somehow no matter what strategy ive used. im sure he knows and sees whatever tricks i come up with, but the point is that he lets his guard down in one way or another. which means i win ^_^
and once he's over his whole negative perspective, attitude, and stubbornness, hes not so bad. :x

 

[Dali]

#1)They do not deal with objective logic, it is subjective to themselves

In addition to the sporadic callousness, that was probably my biggest stumbling block to forming healthy friendships with some of them.

All things said (every type has a bit of a 'trouble side'), ESTPs can be one of the most funny (and fun) types.

 

["?"]

Slight change of subject: I don't recommend bothering ANY SP while they're working or busy. They have a hard time giving you any kind of sincere attention while being busy with something else. They are very infused in the whole DOING thing. My INFJ mom calls it a "business hat"... ha. But it's not really business as much as it is doing focus....

Thank you Malia, your whole post was very insightful on ESTP types. Much of it I can relate to with my older brother, who I would peg as ESP (most likely ESFP). I have always witnessed a mixture of how you describe your brother and your childhood friend, in my brother. Like you, I have no problem distancing myself from others. Unfortunately that is not always healthy or being responsible especially with family in my case. This snipet is on point and my family has always said I am being "business-like". No surprise to find STPs this way, however I am a bit surprised that ISFPs can appear this way and my ESFP brother would never be that way.

 

[Unique]

i agree with the fact stuff
"again with your shit?"
theyre controlling and stubborn
they get in these weird 'funks'
i say one thing, and they take it as a personal attack and put their walls up
theyre so one-sided
"#1)They do not deal with objective logic, it is subjective to themselves

#2)Needy, without being reciprocated"

if he says something that i dont relate or agree with, i try to see it from his viewpoint anyway and tell him that he does have some reason and eventually agree - partially, anyway
but if i mention any other possibilities or if i say something HE doesnt agree on. oh hell..
he becomes even more stubborn and non caring about any sort of explanation i have
even if its right and he know it, he just doesnt care and doesnt want to hear it.

you cant even have any fun with them [the kind of fun entp's like]
you cant charm your way in or 'manipulate' in any way shape or form
its just no
you have to leave them alone for them to think. which is annoying because entp's like me are too impatient. theres no way you can change their minds, they have to do it themselves


but i agree with maliafee
"THEN, about 20 minutes later, after he's cruelly dismissed me, he comes back, genuinely sorry, with an apology. "Sorry, little sis, but you have to admit, you were asking for it." I just give him a hug, happy that he's being nice again..."


i dont know. for me, its just one big roller coaster dealing with them. but i enjoy the challenge. at the end of the day, i feel proud that i got to defeat the monster somehow no matter what strategy ive used. im sure he knows and sees whatever tricks i come up with, but the point is that he lets his guard down in one way or another. which means i win ^_^
and once he's over his whole negative perspective, attitude, and stubbornness, hes not so bad. :x

You have tricks to come up with to try and get his guard down? that doesn't make a ESTP feel good we're hopeless with our emotion and if you keep trying to get us into that "broken" state it makes us extremely uncomfortable. We're much happier when we ignore that bs and continue on.

My ESFJ brother while we disagree on a lot of things is surprisingly good at empathy... I can't speak for all ESTPs but empathy is very important to me, much more so than sympathy.

Also another note is I've gotten frustrated with ENXX in the past for taking what I say for meaning a million things when really they were meant to take whatever I said literally... as I'm usually blunt

"you have to leave them alone for them to think."

I have to 100% disagree and call BS on this being an ESTP trait It's far more likely for an N to be caught up in too many possibilities in an argument and need some down time and its my experience its usually the N who says "leave me alone" in an argument first

"Needy, without being reciprocated"

If by needy you mean lazy... then sure, every Ps guilty of that from time to time... but I hardly see how "neediness" can be attached to a type

"theyre controlling and stubborn"

Stubborn sometimes, controlling though? only when its necessary and if you think we're stubborn you haven't met an SJ

P/N = unconventional
J/S = traditional

Generalizing of course there... Notice how with have one from both though, its called balanced

"They do not deal with objective logic, it is subjective to themselves"

Actually the number one reason I've ever argued in the past is from people too caught up in their emotions and not seeing things objectively

I've NEVER met a primary subjective ESTP

"but the point is that he lets his guard down in one way or another. which means i win ^_^"

But thats sounding more like subjectivity

 

[alcea rosea]

We have an incredibly similar sense of humour and, once I get to know one, we get along like a house on fire... for a week or two and then I start avoiding them and they get perplexed. Perhaps I've only been meeting unhealthy ESTPs but a common thread with all that I've known is an intense need to manipulate and control other people. All of them that I've known, ranging from my father to my flatmate, have been like that. And a lot of the time, it either ends with a confrontation (which they seem to thrive on but which is draining for me) or me giving in and resenting the person later on.

How do you best deal with them... or should I be reduced to avoiding them altogether?

Mo

I don't think ESTP's are generally at all controlling.

 

["?"]

I don't think ESTP's are generally at all controlling.

Yeah, they are. Like all "In Charge" types they do control. Not as overt a control as ESTJ, ENTJ or maybe ENFJ, but do control people around them, similar to "Behind the Scenes" types controlling information.

 

["?"]

You have tricks to come up with to try and get his guard down? that doesn't make a ESTP feel good we're hopeless with our emotion and if you keep trying to get us into that "broken" state it makes us extremely uncomfortable. We're much happier when we ignore that bs and continue on.

My ESFJ brother while we disagree on a lot of things is surprisingly good at empathy... I can't speak for all ESTPs but empathy is very important to me, much more so than sympathy.

Also another note is I've gotten frustrated with ENXX in the past for taking what I say for meaning a million things when really they were meant to take whatever I said literally... as I'm usually blunt

This seems to coincide with how I observe ESTPs as well. They know up front when they're being manipulated so in defense take a stand.

As for empathy, similar to ENTPs, they do have Fe high in their function order. Interesting that you distinguish empathy and sympathy. ETPs will understand and appreciate the unfairness of a situation, however the Ti will allow them to eventually come around to determine regardless of what they may personally think, these are the principles from which something is being looked at. It's why they negotiate so well.

The reading between the lines would be vintage Se. The old saying, a primrose down by the river, is still just a primrose for ESP types.

"you have to leave them alone for them to think."

I have to 100% disagree and call BS on this being an ESTP trait It's far more likely for an N to be caught up in too many possibilities in an argument and need some down time and its my experience its usually the N who says "leave me alone" in an argument first.

Well you are the ESTP here, but I would think that since Ti is what they use to judge, if an ESP cannot come back with an instant response to a solution, they may have to remove themselves when needing to think something through. This only happens when they cannot use a template to resolve the immediate solution. Also from all that I have read, ESTPs are equally happy being autonomous which calls for alone time.

"Needy, without being reciprocated"

If by needy you mean lazy... then sure, every Ps guilty of that from time to time... but I hardly see how "neediness" can be attached to a type

I would find it hard to believe that ESTPs would appear needy, unless you are comparing them to ITPs who the most independent of all types. I also beg to differ on the refusal to reciprocate. I am not sure where this comes from since ESTPs naturally want to help others, especially those they consider friends and family. To the contrary, I would think that ENTs would feel a since of entitlement therefore refuse to believe they should reciprocate. Just my opinion.

"theyre controlling and stubborn"

Stubborn sometimes, controlling though? only when its necessary and if you think we're stubborn you haven't met an SJ

Yeah, they're controlling but again there's relevance here since they are not going to appear as controlling as ETJs or ENFJs. Again as I stated in my earlier response, the "In Charge" interaction style has a tendency to control people and situations involving people. I could see where ESTPs would dismiss this as their intent, but to the the observer, it appears like control since they do not see the internal workings of the ESTP to have taken such action.

"They do not deal with objective logic, it is subjective to themselves"

Actually the number one reason I've ever argued in the past is from people too caught up in their emotions and not seeing things objectively

I've NEVER met a primary subjective ESTP

This is relative since EPs use their auxiliary function (Ti/Fi) to reason, which Jung considers subjective. On the otherhand when Jung references to objective/subjective he is merely pointing out how extraverts dependon objects and introverts internalize. I have to agree that depending on how you are using the term subjectivity/objectivity, Ti will make ESTPs subjective since it's that function they use to make decisions. The Se merely brings in the information to make the decision with. Thanks for the post Unique, very interesting take on how you see yourself as ESTP.

 

[Halla74]

Yeah, they are. Like all "In Charge" types they do control. Not as overt a control as ESTJ, ENTJ or maybe ENFJ, but do control people around them, similar to "Behind the Scenes" types controlling information.

ESTPs don't control other people; we inspire others to rise to their best while accomplishing our will.

Some people need to be told what to do, let's face it. If it's a team endeavor, only one person is in charge, right?

Also, there are some that can, others that will, but very few that can and will. ESTPs are of the few that "can and will." It's what we do!

 

[substitute]

Like Titus Pullo... I find them both scary and sexy at the same time. Bulldozers... with the morality of pirates, and surprisingly canny; nobody I'd rather have at my back, on my side.

 

[Mitzy]

the estp i know has a lot of quick outbursts
im not sure if they need time alone to think or re-group or whatever. i just said think because thats something that i would do..

and needy in relationships. i feel like im always doing the work and hes always asking for more and more. doesnt appreciate the things i do. only wants to see quick and very demonstrated results. its either 'his way' or no way. either on his terms and standards, or else whatever youve done is just shit. always demanding more and more and not just more, but PERFECT in his terms. or it just doesnt count and storms out or dismisses me

he is controlling in the fact that hes a fucking nazi when it comes to how i do things. especially since i like to do things differently in so many ways. he doesnt care about whichever way i want to improvise because again, you just have to do it his way and theres no changing his mind.


either way, he might be like you've described...but with OTHER people.
maybe hes an estj but i dont think so.

hes a total 'guy'
likes working out and getting dirty and playing sports
messy and horse plays with his friends and all that stuff
hes energetic and for the most part fun and funny to be around
its just he gets into this bad attitude whenever i do something he doesnt agree with
i usually leave him alone for a couple of minutes and come back
but when i do come back hes STILL mad
for the SMALLEST reason ever!
so so stubborn
and yes, like all entp's, i do like to argue/debate but i cant with him. when i try, not only does he get furious and all hell breaks loose, but the whole thing just takes too long. eventually, he comes around. but i just dont have patience for it. and im pretty laid back so i just go along with whatever he says to avoid the whole scene. save the drama, i guess

i just dont understand. i wish he wasnt so..uptight about things..

 

[EcK]

sure the guy's not an estj ? (or on steroids)

 

[Mitzy]

maybe he is >_>
oh no
MAYBE HE IS.

 

[EcK]

see, and i didn't even get to the part about working out, that's how clairvoyant I can be.

Also he really reminds me about my father, getting intellectualy forceful with people inside the 'private sphere' this way is very estj to me.

(that, and the 'roids)

My father used to take on lots of projects, do horse riding, sports, was against the authority but only because it didn't agree with his own personal\family values.

 

[Mitzy]

hahaha
he IS like his father, too...which is weird

his dad is an older and [very] serious man who used to be apart of the red army back in russia
hes an intj, i believe

idk
sometimes i feel like we're his parents
yelling at each other every 5 mins and then laughing after

but after reading more descriptions, i think thats exactly what he is.
he does value traditions and all that
so now i have to deal with a entj/russian/jew/taurus
k.
[save me plox]

 

["?"]

ESTPs don't control other people; we inspire others to rise to their best while accomplishing our will.

Some people need to be told what to do, let's face it. If it's a team endeavor, only one person is in charge, right?

Also, there are some that can, others that will, but very few that can and will. ESTPs are of the few that "can and will." It's what we do!

I rest my point.

 

[alcea rosea]

Yeah, they are. Like all "In Charge" types they do control. Not as overt a control as ESTJ, ENTJ or maybe ENFJ, but do control people around them, similar to "Behind the Scenes" types controlling information.

Interesting point even if I still disagree.

 

[Unique]

Interesting point even if I still disagree.

While an ESTP likes to lead they don't dominate... meaning as soon as someone isn't having fun or isn't comfortable we are never going to be all like "too bad, do what we say"... we are indifferent to people following us really, yet people just seem to do it anyway (some people like to follow)

I agree halla74s post before, telling people what to do isn't controlling and we usually have reason (team situation) or if we are asking a favor we always have something to offer in return or if we don't have something to offer we make damn sure we are not demanding

Like Titus Pullo... I find them both scary and sexy at the same time. Bulldozers... with the morality of pirates, and surprisingly canny; nobody I'd rather have at my back, on my side.

Sexy sure, I'll take a compliment but honestly... why scary? In what way?
What's bulldozer about us? Have you not met ESTPs similar to yourself?

You have me confused to be honest, you seem to think we are on another scale or planet, ENTPs I've heard "get to the same result in a slightly different manner to the ESTP"

What do morals have to do with type? Do you think an ESTP is more likely to have I quote.. "pirate morals" than an ENTP?

sub you never cease to amaze me on your rather warped and stereotyped view of ESTPs regardless of if you envy those kind of people or not

the estp i know has a lot of quick outbursts
im not sure if they need time alone to think or re-group or whatever. i just said think because thats something that i would do..

and needy in relationships. i feel like im always doing the work and hes always asking for more and more. doesnt appreciate the things i do. only wants to see quick and very demonstrated results. its either 'his way' or no way. either on his terms and standards, or else whatever youve done is just shit. always demanding more and more and not just more, but PERFECT in his terms. or it just doesnt count and storms out or dismisses me

he is controlling in the fact that hes a fucking nazi when it comes to how i do things. especially since i like to do things differently in so many ways. he doesnt care about whichever way i want to improvise because again, you just have to do it his way and theres no changing his mind.


either way, he might be like you've described...but with OTHER people.
maybe hes an estj but i dont think so.

hes a total 'guy'
likes working out and getting dirty and playing sports
messy and horse plays with his friends and all that stuff
hes energetic and for the most part fun and funny to be around
its just he gets into this bad attitude whenever i do something he doesnt agree with
i usually leave him alone for a couple of minutes and come back
but when i do come back hes STILL mad
for the SMALLEST reason ever!
so so stubborn
and yes, like all entp's, i do like to argue/debate but i cant with him. when i try, not only does he get furious and all hell breaks loose, but the whole thing just takes too long. eventually, he comes around. but i just dont have patience for it. and im pretty laid back so i just go along with whatever he says to avoid the whole scene. save the drama, i guess

i just dont understand. i wish he wasnt so..uptight about things..

sure the guy's not an estj ? (or on steroids)

Agreed with EcK LOL good luck with that one....

Also noted that you said "im pretty laid back" most P types I've found, usually are.

This seems to coincide with how I observe ESTPs as well. They know up front when they're being manipulated so in defense take a stand.

As for empathy, similar to ENTPs, they do have Fe high in their function order. Interesting that you distinguish empathy and sympathy. ETPs will understand and appreciate the unfairness of a situation, however the Ti will allow them to eventually come around to determine regardless of what they may personally think, these are the principles from which something is being looked at. It's why they negotiate so well.

The reading between the lines would be vintage Se. The old saying, a primrose down by the river, is still just a primrose for ESP types.

Haha speaking of being similar to ENTPs... heh

But yeah I pretty much agree with the above, maybe it is the Fe talking and thats where the empathy comes from

Well you are the ESTP here, but I would think that since Ti is what they use to judge, if an ESP cannot come back with an instant response to a solution, they may have to remove themselves when needing to think something through. This only happens when they cannot use a template to resolve the immediate solution. Also from all that I have read, ESTPs are equally happy being autonomous which calls for alone time.

Hum in regards to arguments with ENTPs, we can often "sense" that they are arguing for arguing sake...ENTPs love the debate, we can too but sometimes its just pointless

Also its true that we know very quickly when we are getting manipulated or "played along" which could also be reasons for us not caring about the argument

I would find it hard to believe that ESTPs would appear needy, unless you are comparing them to ITPs who the most independent of all types. I also beg to differ on the refusal to reciprocate. I am not sure where this comes from since ESTPs naturally want to help others, especially those they consider friends and family. To the contrary, I would think that ENTs would feel a since of entitlement therefore refuse to believe they should reciprocate. Just my opinion.

Exactly what I thought, the quote was originally from an ENTP too, denial maybe?

This is relative since EPs use their auxiliary function (Ti/Fi) to reason, which Jung considers subjective. On the otherhand when Jung references to objective/subjective he is merely pointing out how extraverts dependon objects and introverts internalize. I have to agree that depending on how you are using the term subjectivity/objectivity, Ti will make ESTPs subjective since it's that function they use to make decisions. The Se merely brings in the information to make the decision with. Thanks for the post Unique, very interesting take on how you see yourself as ESTP.

That to me, its weird... I think it would be relative, though I don't see how Ti could be attributed to being subjective or objective really... but one would think that being a thinking process it would be more likely to be objective.

Anyway no problem I'm glad there's a few ESTPs around posting