[ENTP] An angry ENTP

[jenocyde]

And it's friend's duty to make one stop if he's acting stupidly.

Wow. What you may view as stupid may very well be just a part of his unique personality. I don't think it's anyone's duty to make me be who they want me to be, and that would really piss me off. I can see now how you two differ - maybe you should just part ways instead of punishing each other for being yourselves...

 

[pecan111]

I'm his friend, and probably the best one he ever had (even though he wouldn't know it). And it's friend's duty to make one stop if he's acting stupidly. If he wouldn't be my friend, I would just walk the other way.

And I might, if things won't change soon.

yes, perhaps you have been his best friend, however i would disagree with your thoughts on a friend's duty to make one stop acting stupidly. If he was trying to get in his car drunk would this be stupid? or just plain dangerous to his life and others? There is a monumental difference.

Just because he makes mistakes in how he handles himself interpersonally and you judge negatively; how is that in your realm of responsibility? Did you do the act OR did he? I know you care in the way you do, however caring for him is to allow him to grow and learn in his way. If he chooses the harder way to learn, then it will be his cross to bear.

Remember you are duty bound, he is not. What is right for one person isn't necessarily right for another? Your need is trying to get met here and not his. HIs need is also trying to get met here, and isn't. Each of you is fighting over who will win control and it is not about this. It is about truly accepting each other, with all of your flaws. If the "flaws" are too much for you to handle, then again, you must protect yourself. I mean up to and including ending the friendship.

Both of you have very strong wills. It appears that both are guilty, but you have a personal history and emotional relationship with each other. Sometimes letting go is the best, but hardest thing to do. I have been where you are at. It is tough, but listen to your inner voice. Does this strain my personal boundaries and value system too much? If it does, trust that your inner voice will know what to do. Both of you are thinkers, whether extroverted or not, think about what that says?

May I be so bold to say this without inducing an argument? I perceive this to be causing you more grief than he. If he is experiencing enough grief about this internally, he will change his behavior. If he is not, then nothing you say or do will change this. Again, my perception is that there is a value judgement being placed on him by you. He perceives it, even if he is doesn't feel it. And he is reacting to it, at least at some level. Each of you has a choice to accept or reject. Perhaps it is time to decide?

 

[Habba]

If he was trying to get in his car drunk would this be stupid? or just plain dangerous to his life and others? There is a monumental difference.

Isn't that stupid AND dangerous? Even though you might not agree, some deeds can be considered as "stupid", regardless of perceiving or participating types. Any act that is harmful and unthoughtful can be considered as an act of stupidity. Constantly yelling, swearing and calling names at your long-time friend for no obvious reason is an act of stupidity, especially after several requests to calm down.

I know you care in the way you do, however caring for him is to allow him to grow and learn in his way. If he chooses the harder way to learn, then it will be his cross to bear.

So, have I mistaken in the terms of friendship then? To me, friendship means mutual respect and support at any given moment, whether it was good or bad. If he has a problem, I feel obligated, as a friend, not as a SJ, to offer my aid the best of ability asking nothing in return. Would this offend you?

Remember you are duty bound, he is not. What is right for one person isn't necessarily right for another? Your need is trying to get met here and not his. HIs need is also trying to get met here, and isn't. Each of you is fighting over who will win control and it is not about this. It is about truly accepting each other, with all of your flaws.

He's the one fighting here for the control, not me. All I want is us to settle whatever disputes we have unsettled in a respectful manner. I've told him numerous times that he should not act so hostile, and that if there's anything I have done wrong, I'm glad to hear it.

Both of you are thinkers, whether extroverted or not, think about what that says?

As funny as it may sound, I'm feeling very F around him. Mayhaps because of his complete lack of such skills. He is a good thinker alright, but everything that comes out of this mouth, is powered by a 2-ton ballbreaker. That is not nice.

May I be so bold to say this without inducing an argument? I perceive this to be causing you more grief than he. If he is experiencing enough grief about this internally, he will change his behavior. If he is not, then nothing you say or do will change this. Again, my perception is that there is a value judgement being placed on him by you. He perceives it, even if he is doesn't feel it. And he is reacting to it, at least at some level. Each of you has a choice to accept or reject. Perhaps it is time to decide?

Yes, it is true that it concerns me more than him. Maybe because he think he's absolutely correct, that I'm completely unable to admit my own defeat and that I'm plain idiot. I also am the one with less self-esteem, so naturally I'm the one feeling the loss here. It might also be due to my judging characteristics.

Thank you for your alternative view of the situation. It's somewhat unfair arguing about these with you, since you have not been there to witness the actual happenings, and that you have to depend on my side of the story and generics of ISTJ - ENTP relationships. But I get the vibes that you don't personally like SJs much due to their restricted natures and "lack of vision". But even we SJs do understand that rules are there to serve us, and not the other way around. Well, at least some of us do.

 

[entropie]

Isn't that stupid AND dangerous? Even though you might not agree, some deeds can be considered as "stupid", regardless of perceiving or participating types. Any act that is harmful and unthoughtful can be considered as an act of stupidity. Constantly yelling, swearing and calling names at your long-time friend for no obvious reason is an act of stupidity, especially after several requests to calm down.



So, have I mistaken in the terms of friendship then? To me, friendship means mutual respect and support at any given moment, whether it was good or bad. If he has a problem, I feel obligated, as a friend, not as a SJ, to offer my aid the best of ability asking nothing in return. Would this offend you?



He's the one fighting here for the control, not me. All I want is us to settle whatever disputes we have unsettled in a respectful manner. I've told him numerous times that he should not act so hostile, and that if there's anything I have done wrong, I'm glad to hear it.



As funny as it may sound, I'm feeling very F around him. Mayhaps because of his complete lack of such skills. He is a good thinker alright, but everything that comes out of this mouth, is powered by a 2-ton ballbreaker. That is not nice.



Yes, it is true that it concerns me more than him. Maybe because he think he's absolutely correct, that I'm completely unable to admit my own defeat and that I'm plain idiot. I also am the one with less self-esteem, so naturally I'm the one feeling the loss here. It might also be due to my judging characteristics.

Thank you for your alternative view of the situation. It's somewhat unfair arguing about these with you, since you have not been there to witness the actual happenings, and that you have to depend on my side of the story and generics of ISTJ - ENTP relationships. But I get the vibes that you don't personally like SJs much due to their restricted natures and "lack of vision". But even we SJs do understand that rules are there to serve us, and not the other way around. Well, at least some of us do.

You talk sooo much that makes me angry

 

[pecan111]

So, have I mistaken in the terms of friendship then? To me, friendship means mutual respect and support at any given moment, whether it was good or bad. If he has a problem, I feel obligated, as a friend, not as a SJ, to offer my aid the best of ability asking nothing in return. Would this offend you?

of course you haven't mistaken what friendship means to you...The point is not that....the point is if you really feel this way, why do you continue to tolerate it...I am saying that if it offends you so deeply(it would offfend me as well), then why not end it? You are not there as yet for whatever reason...you are being indecisive for a reason...examine the real reason and emotions surrounding it and listen to your heart and you will know what to do...that is all I am saying...only YOU can answer that....

As funny as it may sound, I'm feeling very F around him. Mayhaps because of his complete lack of such skills. He is a good thinker alright, but everything that comes out of this mouth, is powered by a 2-ton ballbreaker. That is not nice.

Is this pity?? or compassion?

Thank you for your alternative view of the situation. It's somewhat unfair arguing about these with you, since you have not been there to witness the actual happenings, and that you have to depend on my side of the story and generics of ISTJ - ENTP relationships. But I get the vibes that you don't personally like SJs much due to their restricted natures and "lack of vision". But even we SJs do understand that rules are there to serve us, and not the other way around. Well, at least some of us do.

Funny, I don't view this as arguing...its all in the eyes of the beholder and I tried to soften my words, but obviously didn't do it well enough. I have compassion for you..I know you are hurting over this at some level....

As for your vibes...no, its not that I dislike SJ's....I am used to their tendencies. Honestly, I used to have fits about them, but then I finally let go and can truly appreciate what you have to offer, but it doesn't mean I have to adopt your attitudes or stances. And yes, I even have friends that are SJ's....they are great, but I do not have the same chemistry with them as other types. I don't find that "bad"... I simply find it different.

It appears to me that you still are unable to comprehend our attitude about rules and that is ok. I understand that it is difficult. Our belief is that rules are not there to serve us and I am afraid that is not going to change, regardless of how wrong you think we are.

The "vibe" I am attempting to get across is that you have a decision to make...whether it be now or later. You can choose to continue to allow it, choose to end the friendship, choose to keep trying or choose to do nothing. But you will never make him behave in a manner that is totally acceptable to you all the time. That is not within your power to do...It is only his...Until you understand that, you are butting your head against a brick wall.

I do not feel it conducive to offer any more words...I hope you can feel at peace with whatever you choose. Take care ....

 

[Habba]

The "vibe" I am attempting to get across is that you have a decision to make...whether it be now or later. You can choose to continue to allow it, choose to end the friendship, choose to keep trying or choose to do nothing. But you will never make him behave in a manner that is totally acceptable to you all the time. That is not within your power to do...It is only his...Until you understand that, you are butting your head against a brick wall.

Yes, I have received the vibe, thank you.

And yes, I'll make a decision after we have meet and discussed. If he retains his uncivilized language and behavior, I'm outta there. And as an SJ, my decisions are steady ones.

 

[CzeCze]

I recommend you to speak, one last time, and draw a line in the sand with his sharp tongue. Set a clear limit. If he crosses the line he can't say he wasn't warned.

If he is an ENTP he is challenging you purposely so you need to show him you aren't going to take it and make him respect you.

I'd say it's fine to take a break from him. Tell him exactly how you feel, "You've been acting like a jerk recently and I feel like you are always picking fights. Friendships shuoldn't be this stressful and make me feel like this. I really appreciate our friendship, but if you can't respect me or work with me here, there's nothing for me to do but walk away and give you a break."

Especially if you are both in your late teens or early 20s, there's a lot of growth and change that happens at that time. Nothing wrong at all with walking away for a few months or even several years.

If it's meant to be and you both have the inclination, you will come full circle again.

You can't let fear glue you to unsatisfying relationships.

 

[Riva]

I would have to disagree on this...while we dont' normally do this . it still is in the realm of our psyche...i have done this, esp when i was younger and more immature, but i haven't for a long time, except rasing my voice at mykids, which i really hate.

don't ever ASSUME you see or don't see certain traits or behaviors out of ANY type...that goes agianst what MTBI and type theory is all about...i have seen MBTI misused so much...we are all unique and individual and while we gain understanding of each other thu this incredibly powerful tool, it was NEVER meant to pigeon-hole anyone...please consider that it is never absolute..
thanks[/QUOTE]

i guess you are right about the misuse of MBTI thing.

i get over being angry before i even notice i am angry

but i also have to agree with this comment. i think its kind of common to MOST ENTPs.