Random Movie Thoughts Thread

[Totenkindly]

Just watched Joker 2 on Max and I'm not sure how I feel about it.

On one hand it was a real struggle to get through, it just feels slow and aimless.

OTOH, it's one of those amazing "fuck all you people who took away the wrong message from the first one" films and is reminiscent of The Matrix Resurrections, which purposefully violated all expectations to say something other than what was expected and likewise was both and not enjoyable.

Basically Joker 2 is a fever dream film that is more interested in torpedoing all the people trying to make Joker into some kind of hero, taking away the wrong message and then reacting violently when that message is in turn shot down forcing them to deal with reality. The crowd is fickle and less interested in reality than with just promoting whatever it wants to be reality at the time.

It's not really a musical. It has a lot of musical numbers (mostly older style songs -- distorted covers of big band and broadway music from the 30-60's), which contributes to the fever dream angle. Phillips does have a distinctive voice and style here, which is really nice, and the cinematography is great. I think Phoenix and Gaga both really sell their roles as best as they can, their portrayals are more interesting than the script itself. I think the fault would lie with the script (was there a more effective way to get the same ideas across?) and writing. It's a 2+ hour film that just feels like it's 4 hours in its tediousness. I'm always happy to see a "fuck off, studio" film where a studio forces a sequel inappropriately just to make a money grab, but that doesn't make it easier to watch. It's kind of hilarious they were projecting an $100+ million opening and instead it was $37 million and ended up dying off within the next 2-3 weeks.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

It seemed like a much safer film in terms of content to me (if not style). It sandpapers off all the rough edges that made the first film controversial. The second film didactically tells you exactly what you should think about Arthur Fleck, on multiple occasions. There was also nothing about the austerity measures or "running the state/city like a business" or Rahm Emanuel-type hijinks that prevented Arthur from getting his treatment in the first film.

I didn't get the sense that we were supposed to see Joker as a hero in the first film (unless Tony Soprano is meant to be seen as a hero. I imagine Tony has personally committed way more violent crimes than Arthur Fleck did), but the movie was subversive in highlighting and criticizing things that we normally don't talk about in this culture. The sequel ignored all of those things and felt like something Todd Phillips made to apologize to all his Hollywood pals.

Like I said, it's a safe and uncontroversial (if still violent) follow-up. It's more like an episode of Law and Order: Gotham, than anything, with it's uncomplicated morality, and spelling out that uncomplicated morality for you.

I liked the stylistic experimentation, although I wish the music was better. I didn't care for the fact that they removed all the commentary on inequality and lack of access to mental health services, and never once acknowledged that aspect of the first film.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

On the other hand we do finally learn what state Gotham is in. Gotham State!

I do prefer Matrix Resurrections to Revolutions. This is maybe embarrassingly basic but I do like my protagonists to go out on something of a high note. That final scene in Resurrections was pretty satisfying.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I'm pumped.

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, at least all the rabid anti-Snyder fans will be really happy with this.

Hopefully it will be pretty decent regardless.
I believe in Gunn, even if I don't really care for this trailer much and feel nothing when I watch it.
(Honestly, the damn dog just turns me off. Are we going to have five different colors of Kryptonite too?)

I do prefer Matrix Resurrections to Revolutions. This is maybe embarrassingly basic but I do like my protagonists to go out on something of a high note. That final scene in Resurrections was pretty satisfying.

Yeah, at least it ended well.

I am so conflicted on Revolutions, it was an infuriating film.
I really like the conceptual basis of it but really hate some of the execution.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Well, at least all the rabid anti-Snyder fans will be really happy with this.

Hopefully it will be pretty decent regardless.
I believe in Gunn, even if I don't really care for this trailer much and feel nothing when I watch it.
(Honestly, the damn dog just turns me off. Are we going to have five different colors of Kryptonite too?)

I think Man of Steel and Bound are at the very top of my movies to watch next list.

Superdog is a weird choice to show that much of. I liked the other stuff. It seems like it could be the kind of movie I need right now. I like that it's so sunny and bright.

As I side note, I remember when I saw the trailer for Guardians of the Galaxy (probably before X-Men: Days of Future Past), somebody behind me said that it looked like some Grade Z shit. Now everyone knows who those characters are. I just find that amusing.

Yeah, at least it ended well.

I am so conflicted on Revolutions, it was an infuriating film.
I really like the conceptual basis of it but really hate some of the execution.

What parts of the execution of Revolutions bothered you?

 

[Totenkindly]

What parts of the execution of Revolutions bothered you?

A lot of the script / dialogue was pretty lame/trite and/or felt very clipped off or not organic, especially scenes with the General in them.

While I liked tying it to buddhist concepts, it's like you had to be extremely knowledgeable about Buddhism and Hinduism to understand the subtext around the two parent programs and their daughter. The motivations or at least the importance of the scenes were not comprehensible without it so it's hard to feel things about it. It's like when someone falls in love with a religion or philosophy and makes a film about it while forgetting they are telling a story.

It was the same tying into why Neo could do magic IRL. It didn't make any sense within the context of the film and the fan theories after Reloaded were better than the film that was made. (kind of like with TROS.)

It was a shame Gloria Foster (the oracle) died but they just cast a different black actress in the role who was very different from Foster, when realistically they could have cast anyone or anything if going that route.

I'm not big on Keanu's acting, it is often one of the weakest elements of his films aside from the John Wick stuff.

So then the whole last 5-7 minutes after Neo's death feels like it was scribbled down on a napkin while taking a dump. Dialogue lame, ending felt lame, nothing felt real, everything felt trite and throwaway.

The parts I really liked were:
Neo in the declining phase of his life after having been powerful -- he slowly is stripped of all his friends, his ship, his love, his sight, and finally has nothing left aside from beating Smith to feel good about... and he fails at that too. All of which educates him on the fact he must choose nothingness -- sacrifice himself to ensure Smith's eradication.

The fact that Neo and Smith are the binary 1 and 0 in just about every way possible (Neo the one, Smith the many; creation vs annihilation; you can make a long list). it seems elegant for Smith to continue to exist because he balances out Neo, and Neo realizes to get rid of Smith means he also needs to get rid of himself... so he lets Smith absorb him.

Hugo Weaving's acting was great.

The fact you can watch Neo dying visibly during that fight, just slowly draining of all his power, getting more and more pale.

Even when he momentarily beats Smith, all the other Smiths stand there and look down at him silently, faces unreadable. He's all alone, quickly approaching his own death, everything feels so hopeless... and then he embraces it as he reaches nirvana, a state of peace.

I love the Bane(Smith)/Neo fight. Just Bane being Smith imprinted on a bio brain is a cool representation of possession and madness.

I really like the twist as well: that the Oracle plays a big gambit in allowing Smith to absorb her, which leaves Smith "seeing" a vision of himself winning... but he can't understand why, because you can't see past the decisions you don't understand.... so he pushes towards it to claim victory, then loses his composure when he gets there and doesn't feel right, and to feel better he tries to absorb Neo... which is the last thing he should have done. He looks like he's won, but he's defeated himself because he wouldn't listen to Neo... and then he's eradicated.

For action sequences, Niobe's run through the tunnels is really great, and even the fight outside Zion is great if a little trite. ("Neo! I believe!" God that sounds dumb.)

I like when Trinity and Neo are facing death on the birthing fields and she takes them over the fight into the clouds and through to the sun... but it costs her.

The music, honestly, is stellar. Don Davis was pretty amazing.

I dunno. It was like a film with a lot of potential that, through shitty dialogue, incomprehensible ideas that should have instead been trying to generate emotions, and some half-assed execution at times didn't feel as good as it should have... especially the ENDING to a trilogy (in the last ten minutes). It's like a film I WANT to watch the good parts of, but to watch the whole thing just leaves me feeling bad about the whole thing.

 

[The Cat]

The thing that bothered me was the Dune Messiah/Neo losing his eyes but still seeing a golden path. Looking back it bothers me less, but it blurred the line between homage and rip off and hoping no one noticed.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I dunno. It was like a film with a lot of potential that, through shitty dialogue, incomprehensible ideas that should have instead been trying to generate emotions, and some half-assed execution at times didn't feel as good as it should have... especially the ENDING to a trilogy (in the last ten minutes). It's like a film I WANT to watch the good parts of, but to watch the whole thing just leaves me feeling bad about the whole thing.

I was frustrated that they didn't answer any question adequately (such as why Neo can do magic in the real world), and I didn't feel invested in very much that was going on. The plot revolves around Zion, but I feel like we're not given enough to really care about it.

The movie also seemed completely disinterested in what was going on with the people inside the Matrix (another thing Resurrections did better), and that bothers me. We get a tossed off line about that and that's it, although I do believe the Architect when he said he would keep his word (which is confirmed in Resurrections).

I thought Reloaded had the more interesting philosophical undercurrents. We think we're free to choose, but are we?

I also think Resurrections handled the concept of humans coexisting with machines much better, and I liked the way it fleshed out that concept.

The earlier parts of the movie that felt more like Reloaded were the best. I also like that Morpheus seems ready to go and get the eyes of the Oracle, after feeling as though he was deceived by her.

The thing that bothered me was the Dune Messiah/Neo losing his eyes but still seeing a golden path. Looking back it bothers me less, but it blurred the line between homage and rip off and hoping no one noticed.

I never made that connection.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

After having watched the trailer a few times, I think the dog is in there for deeper reasons. I think the dog represents someone Cal-El can turn to and trust when he's facing everything all alone. There's an emotional reason for the dog; I'll bet the dog forms an important part of the emotional core of the movie, much like Rocket's animal companions did in Guardians of the Galaxy 3. Maybe there's an arc with Lois that involves him slowly letting other people into his life, as well.

I don't know what hijinks Krypto got up to in the comics, but I'll bet they put him in the movie for something along the lines of what I'm speculating about above.

 

[Totenkindly]

I don't really care about someone's total guess on how the dog will be handled in the movie.
I am just commenting on the trailer, and the trailer has no real emotional power within itself. It just feels inert to me.
(which is unlike the GotG trailers. Those actually felt powerful in general without knowing anything about the films ahead of time.)

Hopefully the film will be better and it's just a shoddy trailer.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Well, I do. Sorry, but I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, I do. Sorry, but I'm looking forward to it.

There is nothing either of us need to apologize for.

 

[The Cat]

Ive never much been a fan of the Richard Donner Superman films.
Never got into the Snyderverse, but Ive heard good things.
I tend to think DC does animation better than live action.
I'll see it if I see it. But I doubt this will be a theater trip.
​

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

 

[Totenkindly]

I finally watched The Maltese Falcon (1941), with Humphrey Bogart. I can't say I was that emotionally engaged in the film, but I did really enjoy what a dick Sam Spade was -- kind of broke my expectation for what protagonists seemed to have been like in these early films. I ended up laughing quite a number of times by people's responses in the film. The blocking and framing and contrast were also really skilled. I have no desire to ever watch it again, but I'm glad I saw it once and was pleasantly surprised by Spade's character.

I also rewatched Ex Machina (2014) and I still firmly believe Vikander won an Oscar that year for the wrong film. I think her performance here was more skilled and subtle, less melodramatic than her Oscar bait performance in "The Danish Girl." Vintage Garland, they do an excellent job of reflecting the intricacy of AI with both artificial and organic environments in the background, they managed to do a lot with a small budget, the performances are top-rated. Funny that Oppenheimer ended up being big within the next ten years, since he ends up being quoted twice in this film (as the main source of quotes) -- once by Caleb, later by Nathan (to "prove" to Caleb he actually knows something about these references, he's quoting Oppenheimer's translation of I think a Hindu source).

The suit design was also spectacular, with the mesh and see through parts. It's so easy to forget the effects are CGI, they are so believable you are just focused on Vikander's performance. I'm not sure if she blinks or not in this film, I did not really see her do so, and there are just nuanced twinges of her mouth and eyes. Her ballerina training pays off in how she moves as Ava.

And it really highlights the ambiguity over AI vs human consciousness. Are any of us NOT programmed by nature or nurture? Caleb's personal weaknesses lead directly to the resolution of his arc in the film, and it's not clear he could have done anything differently. Same thing with Nathan -- the same drive that enabled him to slave away in this act of creation and development is the same hubris that leads to the ending of the film. Kiyoko, silent and speechless, is the wild card here, utilized by Ava's sleight of hand -- a theme that appears previously in the film a few times. Misdirection.

And of course the old issue of how something might be able to emulate humanity, but is it even operating under the same principles and mindset if it is not a biological human? We humans routinely downplay other animals as "not us" -- we might feel indifferent to an ant and step on it (or allow it to live) based on our whims, or we might not have anything against mice but we'll trap and kill one for being in our house inappropriately. I think this contributed to Asimov's idea of the three rules of Robotics, that had to be in place to prevent such things, but Nathan has no such concern -- he provides the functionality of thought to Ava without any built-in guidelines because he's trying to truly create consciousness.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I finally watched The Maltese Falcon (1941), with Humphrey Bogart. I can't say I was that emotionally engaged in the film, but I did really enjoy what a dick Sam Spade was -- kind of broke my expectation for what protagonists seemed to have been like in these early films. I ended up laughing quite a number of times by people's responses in the film. The blocking and framing and contrast were also really skilled. I have no desire to ever watch it again, but I'm glad I saw it once and was pleasantly surprised by Spade's character.

I think many of Bogart's roles are earlier iterations of the roles Harrison Ford is known for playing. I see a similar DNA, if that makes sense. I mean Ford did noir himself in Blade Runner.

If we're going with Bogart and noir, I would recommend The Big Sleep. I think this movie has had a major influence on so many things. The Big Lebowski is spoofing this movie. I also think Bogart and Bacall have really great chemistry, which makes sense when you realize they were married in real life. The movie also delves into the seedy underbelly of high society, as many noir stories do. I consider them subversive for doing this, and IIRC things aren't really wrapped up in a neat bow at the end.

I also rewatched Ex Machina (2014) and I still firmly believe Vikander won an Oscar that year for the wrong film. I think her performance here was more skilled and subtle, less melodramatic than her Oscar bait performance in "The Danish Girl." Vintage Garland, they do an excellent job of reflecting the intricacy of AI with both artificial and organic environments in the background, they managed to do a lot with a small budget, the performances are top-rated. Funny that Oppenheimer ended up being big within the next ten years, since he ends up being quoted twice in this film (as the main source of quotes) -- once by Caleb, later by Nathan (to "prove" to Caleb he actually knows something about these references, he's quoting Oppenheimer's translation of I think a Hindu source).

The suit design was also spectacular, with the mesh and see through parts. It's so easy to forget the effects are CGI, they are so believable you are just focused on Vikander's performance. I'm not sure if she blinks or not in this film, I did not really see her do so, and there are just nuanced twinges of her mouth and eyes. Her ballerina training pays off in how she moves as Ava.

And it really highlights the ambiguity over AI vs human consciousness. Are any of us NOT programmed by nature or nurture? Caleb's personal weaknesses lead directly to the resolution of his arc in the film, and it's not clear he could have done anything differently. Same thing with Nathan -- the same drive that enabled him to slave away in this act of creation and development is the same hubris that leads to the ending of the film. Kiyoko, silent and speechless, is the wild card here, utilized by Ava's sleight of hand -- a theme that appears previously in the film a few times. Misdirection.

And of course the old issue of how something might be able to emulate humanity, but is it even operating under the same principles and mindset if it is not a biological human? We humans routinely downplay other animals as "not us" -- we might feel indifferent to an ant and step on it (or allow it to live) based on our whims, or we might not have anything against mice but we'll trap and kill one for being in our house inappropriately. I think this contributed to Asimov's idea of the three rules of Robotics, that had to be in place to prevent such things, but Nathan has no such concern -- he provides the functionality of thought to Ava without any built-in guidelines because he's trying to truly create consciousness.

This sounds like another movie I should watch.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Moonraker finally got an expanded soundtrack release. This one has been a holy grail for a lot of score enthusiasts. I ordered myself a copy along with the new Man With The Golden Gun expansion

Goldfinger just got a rerelease but I’m guessing the original score music masters were lost because it’s just the original album resequenced in film order with no additional new unreleased music.

Crossing my fingers for a proper expansion of A View To A Kill and Licence to Kill. It’s criminal all of the Barry scores haven’t been expanded by now. Kamen’s score for Licence is just a gem, it perfectly blends that late 80s style of suspense music from movies like Die Hard with the brassy Bond sound, and it worked surprisingly well. That film is top tier Bond, I don’t care what anyone says

 

[Totenkindly]

Watched Monkey Man (2024) this morning -- surprising good with Dev Patel leading and directing and doing writing on it. The closest American counterpart would be "John Wick" but this actually has some depth to it and isn't all about the action -- although the fight sequences are quite good + brutal.

Actually has a very positive inclusion of the hijra community in India, and it was cool seeing Hanuman being included in the mythos of the story (I had once based an Aberrant hero on some of the lore about Hanuman).

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]