Roe no mo?

[DiscoBiscuit]

democrats tend to be weak-willed little pussies

I've seen pragmatism called worse things.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

If it's so popular, ditch the electoral college.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I think on some level he knows this and this is what people like him are counting on.

Of course. And the Republicans were always better at playing Republicans than the Clintonian branch of democrats. Why would anyone support Republicans lite when they had the real thing?

 

[Indigo Rodent]

As I say this is no longer just bla bla bla politics. Especially if contraception is out of the window as well.

Views on abortion are based on religion, not sex. There's also plenty of female anti-abortion activists.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Views on abortion are based on religion, not sex. There's also plenty of female anti-abortion activists.

You obviously missed the point. Which was that if you ban abortion and contraception that there will be much less available women out there. In other words there will be much more frustrated men out there. Therefore it isn't that for men this is fully neutral zone, even if we skip the whole thing that you friends and family might get into trouble. For many it will take time to understand what this decisions means on the long run but eventually they will get there.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You obviously missed the point. Which was that if you ban abortion and contraception that there will be much less available women out there. In other words there will be much more frustrated men out there. Therefore it isn't that for men this is fully neutral zone, even if we skip the whole thing that you friends and family might get into trouble. For many it will take time to understand what this decisions means on the long run but eventually they will get there.

Well some people probably want frustrated men so they can recruit them into the Proud Boys or some Christian jihadist group or something like that. It's all the better for them, really.

 

[Coriolis]

Views on abortion are based on religion, not sex. There's also plenty of female anti-abortion activists.

Indeed there are. They derive from a religion with inherent gender bias, in which women are subordinate to men. More modern interpretations try to set those parts aside, linking them to the times and the culture in which the Bible was written, and focusing on the more balanced and inclusive example of Jesus. Conservative Christians, male and female, still hold to the older interpretation. This manifests as support for political policies that exert control over women: when, how, and with whom they can have sex and reproduce; control over their very bodies.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

congratulations on creating more incels, GOP. I'm sure you'll find a way to shift blame to democrats and dead womens lib activists from the 70s. you'll probably also spout empty lip service about the mental health industry failing, yet offer no good plans or solutions to make mental health care more accessible to people who need it the most.

frankly, I am in awe of your messaging and ability to use dogwhistle rhetoric to create plausible deniability and shift focus from your terribly thought out policies.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I imagined what dating might be like in a world where contraception is illegal and I imagined it being even more reasonable.

I think many of the people I would be interested in would probably opt out of dating altogether.

 

[ceecee]

I imagined what dating might be like in a world where contraception is illegal and I imagined it being even more reasonable.

I think many of the people I would be interested in would probably opt out of dating altogether.

I think that's already happening, lack of individual contraception choices will accelerate it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Well some people probably want frustrated men so they can recruit them into the Proud Boys or some Christian jihadist group or something like that. It's all the better for them, really.

Yes and that part regarding consequences about men is probably just a part of the story. One other piece of that case is that US doesn't produce enough of experts on it's own and therefore it imports them through legal immigration. Which is why no one at the top is against this kind of immigration. However if you add this kind of a theocratic laws into mix the odds are that quite a bit of those future immigrants will go into some other English speaking country, EU or some other more or less developed nation ( If they will not simply stay home). After all today any country that is worth anything has it own tech centers/cities. Therefore if you disrupt this mechanism that basically imports plenty of value for basically free the problems in the US will only grow. Since the ship is sinking even without this card on the table. US has quite a bit of crazy laws as it is but this evidently spills the glass if you aren't deeply religious person. Why go to the US when you can go somewhere that is with healthcare as a human right, with friendly childcare, without electoral college, without guns on every corner, with lower public debt, with a month of paid leave every year, with paid sick leave, where your GF wouldn't be sentenced for miscarriage .... you get the point. You can even reduce this to supply and demand talk and it is evident that this lowers the demand from the side of educated people. This isn't rally what they are looking for and therefore they will probably work for someone else (and against you).

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Yes and that part regarding consequences about men is probably just a part of the story. One other piece of that case is that US doesn't produce enough of experts on it's own and therefore it imports them through legal immigration. Which is why no one at the top is against this kind of immigration. However if you add this kind of a theocratic laws into mix the odds are that quite a bit of those future immigrants will go into some other English speaking country, EU or some other more or less developed nation ( If they will not simply stay home). After all today any country that is worth anything has it own tech centers/cities. Therefore if you disrupt this mechanism that basically imports plenty of value for basically free the problems in the US will only grow. Since the ship is sinking even without this card on the table. US has quite a bit of crazy laws as it is but this evidently spills the glass if you aren't deeply religious person. Why go to the US when you can go somewhere that is with healthcare as a human right, with friendly childcare, without electoral college, without guns on every corner, with lower public debt, with a month of paid leave every year, with paid sick leave, where your GF wouldn't be sentenced for miscarriage .... you get the point. You can even reduce this to supply and demand talk and it is evident that this lowers the demand from the side of educated people. This isn't rally what they are looking for and therefore they will probably work for someone else (and against you).

If it gets bad enough educated U.S. citizens might leave in droves. You can rant about smug urban elitists who are hostile to your values all you want but you still need people to do things like write software (or research diseases, etc, etc).

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

This is the loneliness generation.

 

[Virtual ghost]

If it gets bad enough educated U.S. citizens might leave in droves. You can rant about smug urban elitists who are hostile to your values all you want but you still need people to do things like write software (or research diseases, etc, etc).

I didn't want to complicate but this is the case as well. This can even be the case just inside of US if the issue will be given to the states and that is how it will stay: some people will leave in mass deep red states which already struggle with more advanced stuff. However if this ban becomes a thing they will probably try to make ban federal eventually. So in that case mass emigration towards other countries is likely, since this is just what will spill the glass that was basically already full. Most of educated or most of generally secular people will not want to live by these kinds of laws and that is simply a fact. What leads into serious issues regarding economic competition.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I didn't want to complicate but this is the case as well. This can even be the case just inside of US if the issue will be given to the states and that is how it will stay: some people will leave in mass deep red states which already struggle with more advanced stuff. However if this ban becomes a thing they will probably try to make ban federal eventually. So in that case mass emigration towards other countries is likely, since this is just what will spill the glass that was basically already full. Most of educated or most of generally secular people will not want to live by these kinds of laws and that is simply a fact. What leads into serious issues regarding economic competition.

Yeah a country can't thrive if the only people with advanced education you have left are pundits like J.D. Vance.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yeah a country can't thrive if the only people with advanced education you have left are pundits like J.D. Vance.

Economy in 21th century will require only more and more tech/education. Therefore if you alienate people who are into that you will have problems. Especially if your big dream is to be world's number one. The other countries are making their own silicon valley's so there will evidently be jobs there. Today no one is truly irreplaceable.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I'll make a prediction right now. If they don't show, GOP will win back control of the house and senate. They will blow up the filibuster and ban abortion, most birth control and any form of travel to get an abortion a felony. They want a country based on biblical law - their voters want it too or do not care as long as it destroys the lives of the Americans they have been told to hate.

They wont show and the GOP will (90%+ confidence) take both. In what fever dream does the GOP blow up the filibuster? We don't even have the WH so why would we do it (Biden could veto any thing we would pass under such a system), other than to satisfy your internal assumptions of our supposed evilness? I dont see how this happens unless McConnell dies and someone completely unmoored from the idea that the Senate is to be the brake on the hot headedness of the House. The issue of the filibuster isnt talked about in GOP circles as something to destroy but as something to preserve as opposed to the other side of the isle.

Do you perhaps wish the filibuster was gone for your own political ends? Genuinely asking here.

I don't even see how you get to the GOP banning birth control. Where has that been discussed in GOP proposals? You cant think we're that electorally stupid. Unless you're definition of banned is mandating that taxes pay for it. Which Im not assuming is what you think. You get to tell me that.

With regards to abortion travel bans, I will guarantee that this will not occur at the federal level, and should states try it it would have an injunction against it pretty quick.

Most importantly with Roe dead states will very quickly have to come to a legal consensus about what electorally smart limits on abortion look like. The reverse is also true, regarding what electorally smart expansions to abortion look like. This will take several election cycles to shake out as the states have had 50 years of saber rattling over the issue without any possibility of having to actually legislate on it because Roe was in force.

I know you aren't stupid, or evil.

Im genuinely curious as to how your imagined scenario of how this plays out from a practical standpoint?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Question:

Why should the word of a conservative be trusted given how little it seems to matter to them? They'll do whatever they can get away with: their " word" is worthless.


We can see this by the judges they appointed saying Roe vs. Wade was settled law. I expect the same level of honesty and transparency about a boatload of other issues.

Nor do I think conservative common sense should ever be banked on. That's a major flaw of the thinking of the Democratic party.

They would absolutely get rid of the filibuster if it suited their goals to do so. I think they tried to do it before under Dubya.

Oh, here it is under "nuclear option".

George W. Bush Supreme Court candidates - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[The Cat]

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Question:

Why should the word of a conservative be trusted given how little it seems to matter to them? They'll do whatever they can get away with: their " word" is worthless.


We can see this by the judges they appointed saying Roe vs. Wade was settled law. I expect the same level of honesty and transparency about a boatload of other issues.

Nor do I think conservative common sense should ever be banked on. That's a major flaw of the thinking of the Democratic party.

They would absolutely get rid of the filibuster if it suited their goals to do so. I think they tried to do it before under Dubya.

Oh, here it is under "nuclear option".

George W. Bush Supreme Court candidates - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You have to have good faith to have a discussion. Something im pretty sure she and others are capable of.

For it to be worth my time to engage with you you have to demonstrate that its worth my time to do so.

Which means using your noodle and materially engaging with my points.

If you wonder why I dont respond to you, its that i see no version of that where we dont just talk past each other.

Feel free to outperform my expectations.