Trump vs. Biden

[Jaguar]

In an editorial Friday, the Orlando Sentinel apologized for having endorsed Rep. Michael Waltz (R-Fla.) for reelection, citing his decision to support a lawsuit that seeks to negate the election results in Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, four states where Trump lost to Biden.

“We apologize to our readers for endorsing Michael Waltz in the 2020 general election for Congress,” the publication’s editorial said. “We had no idea, had no way of knowing at the time, that Waltz was not committed to democracy. During our endorsement interview with the incumbent congressman, we didn’t think to ask, ‘Would you support an effort to throw out the votes of tens of millions of Americans in four states in order to overturn a presidential election and hand it to the person who lost, Donald Trump?’ Our bad.”

 

[Jaguar]

SCOTUS rejects Texas GOP lawsuit: Go fuck yourself. Basically.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

 

[ceecee]

 

[ygolo]

I only asked if you saw it because every other self identified independent I'm friends with does recognize at least a few of the issues I mention, so I was genuinely surprised you didn't, but I think you're just a different mix of values than anyone else I've talked to thus far.

I agree with all of the points I underlined and disagree with the points I bolded. I'm sorry you're getting death threats, did you report them? I'd be freaked. I have an uncle who is racist, but other than the rare occasions he shows it on the rare occasions I see him I don't get exposed to it anywhere, so I'm mostly out of the loop. I theorize that identity politics and woke culture has done nothing but make it worse. I don't blame you at all for not being afraid of Left Wing crazies when Right Wing crazies are directly threatening your life.

I honesty don't know what the proud boys are, but I'm not certain they're overtly racist. I picture them as the Toby Keith George Bush Era mentality republicdouches. A friend of mine used to date one and go to Proud Boy rallies and she said they were all rowdy rednecks looking to pick fights.

The Proud Boys do prescribe to elements of the white genocide theory, so there is that.

This article on Bill Bar is from the Altlantic, but I have heard similar things from others as well.

I think we've come to about as much an understanding as we can. Debating the rest of it seems like getting into minutae that would be difficult to move people on as well.

 

[Jonny]

From the Libertarian subreddit:

I honestly don’t know what’s going on with the Republican Party anymore. I’ve never fully agreed with them, but I could respect them. In Washington Loren Culp (R) lost the gubernatorial election by 545,000 votes and is now suing for fraud. It’s bizarre. I don’t understand if the party has always been like this and I just haven’t been paying attention, but man, I’m embarrassed for them.

I’m in the same boat. Looking back, it’s easy see now. It hasn’t always been this bad but it’s been on the wrong track for some time now. Conservative media has spent decades selling their followers on bullshit conspiracy theories & stoking anger among them.

And then Trump came along, took hold and weaponized the hell out of it for his own good. Much of the establishment has followed him, purely out of their desire for power and now, they’ve lost control of & are slaves to the very monster they have created.

I saw this coming in ‘16 and made sure to stay the hell clear of this shit wagon. I no longer consider this bunch allies on any level.

They're gonna try and use this as a springboard to make voting harder in the swing states, and they'll keep repeating the story as a cautionary tale of the totally real fraud perpetrated by totally real dead Venezuelans and gym bros with t-shirts, and the totally real neo-states who tried to fight back. Love ya Justin, but it...won't.

The most rage inducing part of all of this is they will walk back into the capitol on Monday and pretend it never happened.

And they'll get away with it. They might even increase their votes next election.

They have pilfered and damaged the fabric of this country and we're all standing here unable to do anything about it. Fuck all of them.

I mean look back at 2018 and the migrant caravan. I don't think I saw any mention of them after November 7th.

They drum up issues that are allegedly critical then drop them off like a rock. The same thing came with locking up Hillary in 2016. I have family that still says she did something but completely ignores however many investigations were done before the election and how there were 0 investigations done after the election.

 

[Jaguar]

PHOTOS: Trump Supporters Rally In Washington : NPR

 

[The Cat]

 

[Jonny]

Partisan Lean of Various States Through the Decades

 

[Z Buck McFate]

When did the parties basically switch? 1940s? There's some point where the map basically flips to it's opposite within a few year's time.

Reading HCR's history of it is on my to-do list. I'd like to understand it better.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

When did the parties basically switch? 1940s? There's some point where the map basically flips to it's opposite within a few year's time.

Reading HCR's history of it is on my to-do list. I'd like to understand it better.

it's a bit complicated because it wasn't until after the 60s when an ideological distinction really emerged. Before that, there were progressive and conservative wings in both parties But the South didn't really become solidly Republican in Congress until 94.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I was wrong about it being within a few years.

I vaguely remember it had something to do with the country finally having established its infrastructure. But that's all I remember.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

^The reason I bring it up is because it makes me wonder what kind of shift - with the mass exodus of Republicans from Trumpublican authoritarianism to the Democrat base, and the split that will necessarily happen between them and progressives (while hopefully remaining united enough to keep authoritarians at bay) - the next several years will bring.

I can't really tell how many Republican anti-Trumpers are also anti-Trump enablers as well (who feel as strongly about booting out the Republicans who enabled Trump's lawlessness as they do about booting out Trump himself - and therefore would prefer Democrats take Congress too, in spite of being lifelong Republicans). But it seems like most famous examples are.

 

[ceecee]

^The reason I bring it up is because it makes me wonder what kind of shift - with the mass exodus of Republicans from Trumpublican authoritarianism to the Democrat base, and the split that will necessarily happen between them and progressives (while hopefully remaining united enough to keep authoritarians at bay) - the next several years will bring.

I can't really tell how many Republican anti-Trumpers are also anti-Trump enablers as well (who feel as strongly about booting out the Republicans who enabled Trump's lawlessness as they do about booting out Trump himself - and therefore would prefer Democrats take Congress too, in spite of being lifelong Republicans). But it seems like most famous examples are.

There are more than people think. Ford Fisher is by far the best voice on this subject

https://twitter.com/FordFischer

If you scroll down a bit, you will see that waste of air Nick Fuentes calling to "destroy the GOP".

He says he no longer identifies as a Repub, but a Trump supporter & nationalist that will only "vote for Republicans that support an end to all legal and illegal immigration."

Nationalist and nationalism are the key identifiers here.

This kind of reporting is particularly important for those that go around claiming to have no idea who The Proud Boys are or any clue about the conservative extremist right splinter that's fueling this...

Really no excuse to be an ignorant dumb fuck but I understand there are people that can't help themselves and figure if they stay in their safe little corner and ignore, everything will be okie dokie.

 

[Lark]

Anyone think Trump's supporters will genuinely attack the GOP or do you expect that to fizzle out?

Also does anyone have any answers to what the libertarian/conservatives actually imagine a republic but not a democracy would look like or how its meant to function?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yeap, the UN should start the bombings around 6:30 AM.
Since that is the standard procedure for this profile of people.

 

[Lark]

There are more than people think. Ford Fisher is by far the best voice on this subject

https://twitter.com/FordFischer

If you scroll down a bit, you will see that waste of air Nick Fuentes calling to "destroy the GOP".



Nationalist and nationalism are the key identifiers here.

This kind of reporting is particularly important for those that go around claiming to have no idea who The Proud Boys are or any clue about the conservative extremist right splinter that's fueling this...

Really no excuse to be an ignorant dumb fuck but I understand there are people that can't help themselves and figure if they stay in their safe little corner and ignore, everything will be okie dokie.

I've noticed this style developing for a while, along with the KKK revivalism, its bizarre as what even is liberalism and what identifies a liberal to these violent types?

 

[Lark]

I was wrong about it being within a few years.

I vaguely remember it had something to do with the country finally having established its infrastructure. But that's all I remember.

What is up with that change, like the only one similar to it that I know of was in Scotland when the entire country turned to the SNP and away from any of the parties seen as westminister centric.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

If you scroll down a bit, you will see that waste of air Nick Fuentes calling to "destroy the GOP".

At least according to the pieces I just read, I guess they were chanting "destroy the GOP" because the GOP failed to get him elected? Or they failed to prove the election was stolen? (And "can't prove election was stolen = maybe election wasn't stolen" is just a bridge too far?) Is it just a small handful of Trump's base that feels this way? I've not seen that anywhere else (except several stories about it at the protest yesterday).

Nationalist and nationalism are the key identifiers here.

So do you think they'll break away from the GOP or take it over? It's looks like they've taken it over. I don't think the Republican Never-Trumpers will be willing to share it with them (i.e. get under the umbrella of support for a same candidate, regardless of similar Social Darwinistic goals). The Lincoln project posted a Twitter thread just yesterday addressed to AOC, urging anti-Trump solidarity as priority over smaller disagreements.

Will there be three parties in four years? Or is it just way too soon to even guess?

 

[ceecee]

At least according to the pieces I just read, I guess they were chanting "destroy the GOP" because the GOP failed to get him elected? Or they failed to prove the election was stolen? (And "can't prove election was stolen = maybe election wasn't stolen" is just a bridge too far?) Is it just a small handful of Trump's base that feels this way? I've not seen that anywhere else (except several stories about it at the protest yesterday).




So do you think they'll break away from the GOP or take it over? It's looks like they've taken it over. I don't think the Republican Never-Trumpers will be willing to share it with them (i.e. get under the umbrella of support for a same candidate, regardless of similar Social Darwinistic goals). The Lincoln project posted a Twitter thread just yesterday addressed to AOC, urging anti-Trump solidarity as priority over smaller disagreements.

Will there be three parties in four years? Or is it just way too soon to even guess?

I think the GOP is entirely gone as a legit party. They've been taken over by far-right, authoritarianism, ultranationalism and religious extremism. And I think the ones you see stick with it either overtly support this or claim ignorance. They could start a European style conservative party, but that's far too foreign for them to wrap their heads around. Weirdly I hear a lot about supporting the president but let's be honest, they only mean Trump. But I don't think anyone will see the full impact of this for a little bit. Ivanka Trump is apparently pondering a senate run in FL since none of them can ever go back to NY or anywhere else for that matter (except maybe Barron) so they are looking to remain relevant.

I think that the change from within option for the Democratic party seems to be working to a degree. Is that going to continue? I don't know. Until the Dems fully and I mean fully embrace labor and working people, not much will change. So more Justice Dems, more DSA and progressive org endorsed candidates, more union organizers running would be awesome.