Trump vs. Biden

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

See, this is when a real leader would see the potential confusion on election day and push for a standard of mail voting (for example) due to the pandemic, so that there wouldn't be a huge party imbalance of later-counted votes. A real leader would be talking about this ahead of time, and how having a probable winner on the night of the election (as in the past) would be unrealistic in these circumstances, so everyone should not jump to conclusions and instead give time for the vote to be counted.

This leader would actually be more concerned about preserving the integrity of the vote, keeping the country stable, and minimizing conflict that could arise amid confusion.

Didn't we used to have leaders who used to be more concerned about the country's stability and well-being, regardless of who they selected to lead them? Whatever happened to servant leadership?

It's almost like just relying on norms to prevent abuse of power isn't enough. Too bad there's nobody we could have voted for who was against the expansion of the national security state.

I know I've never had the chance to vote for anyone in a general election who seemed interested in preventing these kinds of things from happening, so going by that definition, I'd say we'd been without "servant leadership", if such a thing ever existed, for as long as I've been able to vote.

 

[Jonny]

See, this is when a real leader would see the potential confusion on election day and push for a standard of mail voting (for example) due to the pandemic, so that there wouldn't be a huge party imbalance of later-counted votes. A real leader would be talking about this ahead of time, and how having a probable winner on the night of the election (as in the past) would be unrealistic in these circumstances, so everyone should not jump to conclusions and instead give time for the vote to be counted.

This leader would actually be more concerned about preserving the integrity of the vote, keeping the country stable, and minimizing conflict that could arise amid confusion.

Didn't we used to have leaders who used to be more concerned about the country's stability and well-being, regardless of who they selected to lead them? Whatever happened to servant leadership?

To be fair, I think anyone whose very freedom hinged on the outcome of the election might be inclined to do whatever it took to ensure a favorable outcome. This is why aligning incentives with stakeholder interests is a central objective of executive compensation structures in the private sector. When external oversight is insufficient or impossible, measures should be taken to align the interests of the executive with the interests of the business, or in this case, country.

It might be more beneficial to grant full, retrospective immunity to any sitting POTUS for all crimes except for those related to the security and sanctity of our elections. And any such electoral crimes would be punishable by death.

 

[Jaguar]

To be fair, I think anyone whose very freedom hinged on the outcome of the election might be inclined to do whatever it took to ensure a favorable outcome. This is why aligning incentives with stakeholder interests is a central objective of executive compensation structures in the private sector. When external oversight is insufficient or impossible, measures should be taken to align the interests of the executive with the interests of the business, or in this case, country.

It might be more beneficial to grant full, retrospective immunity to any sitting POTUS for all crimes except for those related to the security and sanctity of our elections. And any such electoral crimes would be punishable by death.

Okay, I'm sitting here drinking Mexican beer. Did I really read that right — Death? *laughs*

 

[Jonny]

Okay, I'm sitting here drinking Mexican beer. Did I really read that right — Death? *laughs*

They weren't mini-strokes, okay? I don't do that. I don't have mini-strokes. It was a very large, very powerful stroke. The doctor said it was the biggest he had ever seen, okay? He couldn't believe it. He and the other doctors said they were having to think up a new word for it because they had never seen anything like it. I said 'Doc, why not call it a mega stroke?'. That's got a nice ring to it, doesn't it folks? Mega stroke. MAGA stroke. Mega stroke. So now that's what they're going to call it in the text books. It was tremendous.

 

[Jaguar]

They weren't mini-strokes, okay? I don't do that. I don't have mini-strokes. It was a very large, very powerful stroke. The doctor said it was the biggest he had ever seen, okay? He couldn't believe it. He and the other doctors said they were having to think up a new word for it because they had never seen anything like it. I said 'Doc, why not call it a mega stroke?'. That's got a nice ring to it, doesn't it folks? Mega stroke. MAGA stroke. Mega stroke. So now that's what they're going to call it in the text books. It was tremendous.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

... at least they're still in school? (Hopefully one that can see to their special needs?)

 

[anticlimatic]

A lot of conservatives are giving Biden shit for condemning the violence and rioting, but not calling out any of the leftists behind most of it by name- the way Trump kind of did back when a white nationalist drove a car into a crowd. I feel like it's a bit nitpicky, and Biden's statement condemning the violence and rioting was sufficient and accurate. I also remain very worried about him. He reminds me a lot of my grandpa in the years before he passed. Win or lose I hope he has more years than that left.

 

[Red Herring]

It's almost like just relying on norms to prevent abuse of power isn't enough.

Over here that problem is known as the Böckenförde dilemma. Bockenforde dilemma - Wikipedia
Basically, a liberal democracy requires a certain social goodwill, values, solidarity and cohesion that the system itself can't provide or guarantee. It relies on the benevolence of its citizenry.

 

[The Cat]

Can't escape the simple truth.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I just don't understand why they do some many national polls, when the whole thing is basically coming down to a dozen states. Polling individual states would mean much more in practical sense.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Over here that problem is known as the Böckenförde dilemma. Bockenforde dilemma - Wikipedia
Basically, a liberal democracy requires a certain social goodwill, values, solidarity and cohesion that the system itself can't provide or guarantee. It relies on the benevolence of its citizenry.

Interesting. I'm just angry that issues I thought were important were never on table in elections. Now it turns out they really were important after decades of dealing with everyone shrugging them off as the concerns of paranoid lunatics or something like that. This is the primary reason I've become so radical and disillusioned with "politics as usual." "Free stuff" actually doesn't have all that much to do with it.

There's a reason I thought our political system was broken long before Trump arrived on the scene.

It is beyond frustrating to listen to all this "oh, I never thought this could happen here." Well guess what? I could. And how did they react at the time? They told me to stop ranting about politics and shut up; I needed to chill out and should go party or watch the Apprentice or something. Perhaps this is why I don't really want to talk about politics all that much these days; I'd just get too angry at EVERYONE.

 

[The Cat]

Interesting. I'm just angry that issues I thought were important were never on table in elections. Now it turns out they really were important after decades of dealing with everyone shrugging them off as the concerns of paranoid lunatics or something like that. This is the primary reason I've become so radical and disillusioned with "politics as usual." "Free stuff" actually doesn't have all that much to do with it.

There's a reason I thought our political system was broken long before Trump arrived on the scene.

It is beyond frustrating to listen to all this "oh, I never thought this could happen here." Well guess what? I could. And how did they react at the time? They told me to stop ranting about politics and shut up; I needed to chill out and should go party or watch the Apprentice or something. Perhaps this is why I don't really want to talk about politics all that much these days; I'd just get too angry at EVERYONE.

Some people who say that, can see what you see, but they believed more people besides them could, one of the biggest ways all this has been so sinister is because how long a game is being played here. All This now...is just the rising action. And I've learned to consider, that anger at EVERYONE is precicely the reaction we're supposed to have. We're meant to feel isolated and alone and surrounded by herds we can no place in. Because the last thing anyone in that rigged game wants is people coming together with hope and resolve in these times. No. We're more managable divided and too angry. I guess the big question for us is, are we gonna just shut up and color? Are we gonna react and divide further? Or do bite the bullet on our anger and channel it into something constructive? (Not saying you're not btw I'm talking to me and everyone as much as you)

We are many they are few.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Some people who say that, can see what you see, but they believed more people besides them could, one of the biggest ways all this has been so sinister is because how long a game is being played here. All This now...is just the rising action. And I've learned to consider, that anger at EVERYONE is precicely the reaction we're supposed to have. We're meant to feel isolated and alone and surrounded by herds we can no place in. Because the last thing anyone in that rigged game wants is people coming together with hope and resolve in these times. No. We're more managable divided and too angry. I guess the big question for us is, are we gonna just shut up and color? Are we gonna react and divide further? Or do bite the bullet on our anger and channel it into something constructive? (Not saying you're not btw I'm talking to me and everyone as much as you)

We are many they are few.

I consider myself to be doing my part by not criticizing Joe Biden for his past role in all of this. They can get the moderate Republicans they love so much to carry the torch for Biden. That's the wisdom of picking him, right?

All the activism I do is state and local. I'll admit that I consider the U.S as a whole a lost cause at this point. (Even if Biden wins, I don't see him enacting the changes necessary to prevent a Trump 2.0 [Republicans should take comfort in that]; Obama-era "hope and change" was not sufficient, so why would more of that be of any use?) People have been gaslighting me about national politics for decades because they believed a bunch of spurious bullshit (while chastising me for my lack of faith), and now it's my responsibility to help them recover from a fetal position? Fuck that.

 

[Jaguar]

I consider myself to be doing my part by not criticizing Joe Biden for his past role in all of this. They can get the moderate Republicans they love so much to carry the torch for Biden. That's the wisdom of picking him, right?

Joe wouldn't even be the Democratic nominee were it not for the black community. Even your own post pretends they don't exist - you chose "moderate Republicans" as the answer while ignoring the obvious. Why do you think Bernie got blown out? He's a white agitator (that's what they called him in college) who WANTS A REVOLUTION! Yeah, well. Turns out some people don't want a damn revolution, or an angry white guy shaking his hand in the air at them every day, they just want to be treated like human beings. Plain and simple. You'd think someone as "smart" as Bernie would've realized that in 2016 when he admitted he ran a campaign that was "too white." But, no, he had to do it in 2020, all over again, with little to no support from the black community. As I expected. You don't run a country by turning one American against another or blaming a specific group for your problems, teaching them to hate anything perceived as "other" while having the audacity to claim you're "uniting" America.

Maybe you want to live in a splintered country, watching chaos break out on a daily basis. Maybe you need that type of stimulation - 'ooooo shiny.' I do not. Good thing you're not a CEO. Who the fuck would want a company warring with itself from within? Nothing would ever get done.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You don't run a country by turning one American against another or blaming a specific group for your problems, teaching them to hate anything perceived as "other" while having the audacity to claim you're "uniting" America.

You don't know about the black community either; in fact, I'd be willing to place money on the fact that you live in a whiter neighborhood than me. At any rate, it's up to the people who voted for Biden in the primary, whatever they're race might be, to go to bat for him. That's not my responsibility.

You think the Trump supporters and the GOP are going to get on board with Biden if he wins? Maybe I'm not CEO material, but I least I live in the real world. This country will still be divided once Trump is out of office. Have you noticed that people are calling the Democrats socialists even though Sanders isn't the nominee? You don't have to look far for that. You can find evidence of that on this board.

The GOP has gone off the deep end (and has been swimming there for a long time) and it makes no difference to them whether Sanders or Biden is the nominee.

Also, it's rich that you're talking to me about unity when you have one of the most divisive communicating styles of anybody on this board. You've said far worse things to the people supporting Trump here than I ever have.

 

[Jaguar]

You think the Trump supporters and the GOP are going to get on board with Biden if he wins? Maybe I'm not CEO material, but I least I live in the real world. This country will still be divided once Trump is out of office. Have you noticed that people are calling the Democrats socialists even though Sanders isn't the nominee? You don't have to look far for that. You can find evidence of that on this board.

Do you not realize how many Trump supporters are Independents? Do you not realize how many Trump supporters voted for Obama in prior elections? You don't live in the real world. Your world is what you see when you walk into the bathroom and look in the mirror. That's about it. And if someone is calling Dems socialists, they work for the Trump campaign and/or drank his toxic kool aid— resulting in liver failure and fucking up the clarity of their mind.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Do you not realize how many Trump supporters are Independents? Do you not realize how many Trump supporters voted for Obama in prior elections?

I do. I have some in my extended family. I don't see Biden converting them.

And if someone is calling Dems socialists, they work for the Trump campaign and/or drank his toxic kool aid— resulting in liver failure and fucking up the clarity of their mind.

A lot of people drank that kool-aid. It's a fact worth acknowledging rather than denying.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You're also using very divisive language right now. What about unity?

 

[Virtual ghost]

To be honest I think they to should put Harris out more, especially since she was chosen to be the part of the ticket. I mean to everyone it is clear that with time this should evolve into her presidency and therefore she must be able to prove that she can make a stand. Also with this you would stimulate the minority/female message. Plus her verbal skills are better and clearer at this point, what serves the cause in practical sense.

 

[Jaguar]

I have some in my extended family. I don't see Biden converting them.

You don't know about the black community either; in fact, I'd be willing to place money on the fact that you live in a whiter neighborhood than me.

Talk about tunnel vision. . .