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Trump vs. Biden

Coriolis

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When I drive through what was a heavy Trump county in 2016 and now see a big-ass sign on the highway that reads: "Make America Great Again. Dump Trump." I'm hopeful. ;)
This is the ticket:

 

Red Memories

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Please keep in mind alternative schooling of any kind at any level is almost always a state level, not federal level, issue. I hate this kind of shit headline but I also know most people are motivated by fear, which is why BIDEN WON'T LET YOU HOME SCHOOL YOUR KIDS!! grabs a bigger segment of the population than it normally would.

Is your mom concerned about states attempting to reopen schools as well, when patents and school districts are against it? Because I've noticed that the same concern isn't being spread very evenly in most cases.

I'm sorry but Trump and Biden are not on equal footing when it comes to being garbage humans and politics.

Trump Has Now Moved $2.3 Million Of Campaign-Donor Money Into His Private Business

That's just today. It seems to me so many people are looking for a justification to vote for Trump. I just want people to own their choices.

Yes, she actually is. She was very upset to hear how many Idaho parents just want to shove their children back into physical schools right now even if they're ill. Said it gave her less hope in humanity. And it is sad how little some care about their children.
 

ceecee

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Yes, she actually is. She was very upset to hear how many Idaho parents just want to shove their children back into physical schools right now even if they're ill. Said it gave her less hope in humanity. And it is sad how little some care about their children.

Much of the pressure is coming from governors aligned with market interests. Schools need to open so parents can get their asses back to work, generally at lower paying jobs in service or hospitality or something "essential", to get the economy moving so companies can go back to their general looting of the US taxpayer.

The fact that a whole lot of parents are aren't willing to sacrifice their kids or themselves for capitalism, is a really encouraging thing. This country sucks so very much for children and families.
 

Red Memories

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To me, that isn't so much home schooling as alternate schooling. Yes, you are at home, but your parents are not providing your curriculum, some (usually) online source is, that you have to pay for. I have always had 2 issues with homeschooling, aside of the occasional blinders it results in for religious reasons: 1) it takes some of the most engaged parents/families out of the public system in a way that waters down the experience for others; and 2) it is another example of mothers solving the world's problems for free, since it is usually mothers who stay home to implement it. But that is all for another thread and topic.

I seriously doubt Joe Biden with his Catholic background would oppose anything outside of public schools. If nothing else, Catholic schools (and apparently online curricula) have long been a refuge for students ill served by public offerings. His wife as an educator would know the real pros, cons, and success rates of the various educational options.



I find it noteworthy, though, that you would consider Biden morally on a par with Trump, or somehow not a moderate. His life experiences seem to have given him a real appreciation for hardship and compassion for others, something that has escaped Trump entirely. He also does not hold with the more progressive ideas within the Democratic party, such as universal health care as supported by candidates like Sanders and Warren. Biden seems about as middle-of-the-road as one can get now. He is not my first choice, but he is far from the last. He supports a significant number of positions that I hold, and I think will behave honorably on the world stage as a statesman rather than a buffoon. I disagreed with the first President Bush on many things, but could not fault him here. We have seen for the past 4 years what happens when we are represented by people who have no respect for the office, or those it is supposed to serve.

Meant to get back to you as well.

To me, that isn't so much home schooling as alternate schooling. Yes, you are at home, but your parents are not providing your curriculum, some (usually) online source is, that you have to pay for. I have always had 2 issues with homeschooling, aside of the occasional blinders it results in for religious reasons: 1) it takes some of the most engaged parents/families out of the public system in a way that waters down the experience for others; and 2) it is another example of mothers solving the world's problems for free, since it is usually mothers who stay home to implement it. But that is all for another thread and topic.

I suppose most "anti-homeschoolers" suggest anything that is not a public school or physical private school is negatively impacting a child's ability to think for themselves or do well socially. I constantly get comments of how they're surprised I'm so outgoing since I was homeschooled, as if every homeschooler is a shy socially anxious individual. I am a bit socially anxious now, because some people have helped me feel that way. It had nothing to do with my alternative schooling at all. I can see how perhaps it does take away from the schooling system. However, with a broken system that often does ignore the different needs of each child, how can an engaged parent navigate something which refuses to change? I do not think I would have done so well with school in a traditional setting. I suppose some would've thought I had ADHD as a child (some people still think I do at times, lol) because I just was not good at sitting and concentrating for extended periods of time. I wasn't good at listening to instructions and remembering a lick of it. My mom found interactive ways to encourage me to learn, and little ways to keep me focused. I feel I am the excelling student I am today because she was able to build an educational route that was individualized to the approach I needed. School's try to be a one-size fits all sort of thing and often the children suffer for it. I'm not thinking of it as some terrible indoctrinating place, but more I see so many flaws in that system where we just teach to a test. There has to be a better way to prepare people for the world. Most businesses today complain of lacking professionalism, or soft skills (mainly related to empathy, communicating with others). But we are still trying to assume every child is similar and therefore we all teach the same way to the same set of students for years to come. Maybe if those engaged parents were in the system perhaps they COULD say something. I don't like classes telling me what to think or believe - I love my college instructors who have challenged us to be skeptics, "little scientists", to search, watch, test things we see, things we believe even because confirmation bias can be messy. To constantly take every interaction as a learning experience, positive or negative. Idaho's schooling system is an absolute trainwreck though, so if you have examples of some places actually implementing a different thing, that'd be amazing and I'd love to hear where schools are trying to innovate their methods.

I find it noteworthy, though, that you would consider Biden morally on a par with Trump, or somehow not a moderate. His life experiences seem to have given him a real appreciation for hardship and compassion for others, something that has escaped Trump entirely. He also does not hold with the more progressive ideas within the Democratic party, such as universal health care as supported by candidates like Sanders and Warren. Biden seems about as middle-of-the-road as one can get now. He is not my first choice, but he is far from the last. He supports a significant number of positions that I hold, and I think will behave honorably on the world stage as a statesman rather than a buffoon. I disagreed with the first President Bush on many things, but could not fault him here. We have seen for the past 4 years what happens when we are represented by people who have no respect for the office, or those it is supposed to serve.

I would jump to say, without question, Joe Biden in heart is more moral than Donald Trump. However, you may call me a conspiracist, but I only see this going one direction: Kamala Harris.
Joe Biden has off and on, stated things which show a deteriorating mental state. Some of the threads mention these and acknowledged it during the primary race, so it is not something we can pretend is in fact not there. He has a history of being a bit...well handsy as well. I could see perhaps he didn't majorly assault her, but perhaps a woman would dislike being touched in such ways and consider what Joe Biden does a form of sexual assault/harassment by today's standards. So I do not immediately toss the sexual assault claim that was made out the window as something to derail his campaign. Although the complete bias standards offend me. Anything Trump or a conservative does would immediately be believed and "cancellable" while we merely sat around and tore apart the person who accused Biden as a false trump pawn. Isn't it kind of sad that they cry believe the victim, but basically only believe the victim at all costs if it is convenient for you... Joe Biden in heart is a true moderate. I read his voting history. He is someone I could get behind. Here's my problem:
I feel within months of getting into office, Biden will be deemed unfit, be removed, and Kamala Harris will be made president. I think that's why it took so long for him to get a VP, they basically wanted to decide who they REALLY wanted as president, to make them the VP, so that when Biden loses out the one they want gets in. I find that pretty shady in itself. Also how no one wants them to debate. It is likely a debate may show his state isn't the best. The debate may not go well. It'd ruin the big picture plan. So I don't feel like I'm voting for Joe Biden, I feel like I am voting for Kamala Harris. I don't want Kamala Harris. I really don't want most of what the "democrats" are right now, because they aren't Democrats. A lot of them are socialists walking on the democratic ticket, like how some not republicans walk on the republican ticket. I liked Tulsi, she was fairly moderate about issues I feel more moderate about and had strong liberal stances on other things I agreed with. I don't feel I would've minded Elizabeth Warren if she could've just stopped lying. When she focused on the actual data and campaign at hand she made more sense. Not a big fan of Bernie Sanders when he compliments Fidel Castro, or that level of change. We need someone to fix the corruption within our system, not necessarily change the entire system, because all that'll happen then is you change the system but the corruption still exists so they'll just corrupt the NEW system. There's some things I agree with though (universal healthcare, more tax on the rich, definitely not against any environmental regulations) but I don't want open borders, I don't think we should just blindly let people in (good vetting system), I don't feel raising minimum wage is going to help things because those greedy companies will just inflate their prices to make up for it. I mean, does anyone really think Jeff Bezos is a good ole' liberal soul with his 200B dollars that obviously isn't going into things to make their working conditions better or employees paid more? Yeah, they pay somewhat more than walmart, but during this crap while they spewed their ridiculous commercials their own employees were walking out due to unsafe work conditions. None of these businesses claiming to support these ideals are really "bleeding hearts". They bleed whatever gives them good publicity to get your money in their pocket. I don't wanna be their token business giver. I'm finding ways to heavily support local small businesses now because these giant businesses are going to destroy this country and no one is stopping them at all. We need to start regulating the rules about not being monopolies again. Because too few people are running the chain, so now we are at the mercy of these businesses. It's pretty scary honestly in the big picture. I wish I could tell you I knew how to fix America, I think we all have ideas but don't know what to really do. I think if everyone stopped being polarized and looked at each other we could almost all agree on one thing: Something in this system is broken. If we did that, we could finally build a bridge. I feel like much of what's happening right now between polarized politics and people protesting in the streets and the mainstream media skewing everything from both sides, is division. As long as we are divided, we cannot break the chains of a broken system. Both political parties play into this division. As long as the lobbyists keep paying them and nothing changes their status quo. That's why I get frustrated that this is automatically just a "Biden isn't Trump therefore he is the answer". No, neither one is actually the answer. Both are products of a very broken 2 party system. I wish someone would just begin a campaign to write in a candidate, an actually good candidate. I may not necessarily love, or agree with AOC on most things, but there is one thing I always find very inspiring about her - she came from nothing, she lived in the heart of America's mess, and she got elected and she's trying to do SOMETHING. Most of these elected officials have come from money, they've come from a place where they didn't have to see the poor or the broken spirits within America. And they've forgotten them, they treat people as an ignorable number. And both parties have ignored so many of the needs of the people for so long. But we ignore it under the guise of we are republican or democrat. I encourage everyone to take the lens off, and see them as what they are where they are.
 

Virtual ghost

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This is the ticket:




So Lindsey is now also far left politician ? :doh:



I mean calling Biden far left, socialist or something like that is simply ignorant (and I dare to say this as someone who is from more left wing part of the world). The man is a Capitalist as they come. "Is he a perfect person?" and "Is he crony capitalist to certain degree?" are reasonable questions but the guy is evidently a Capitalist. Around the whole Europe (western and eastern) he objectively wouldn't be able to govern because he is just too right in economic issues (if he wouldn't adjust to local standards). The current US debates about this are simply "pure cringe".
 

Jaguar

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"Joe Biden has said things which show a deteriorating mental state."

How many times do we have to go over this - 10? 100? 1000?


Biden has a slight stutter at times but it was a much bigger deal when he was a kid, which he worked hard to overcome. It occasionally pops up in conversation or when giving a speech. Stuttering has nothing to do with any so-called 'deteriorating mental state.' For some, it has a genetic component so it can be found in other family members. Furthermore, he had two brain surgeries due to bleeding in the base of his brain in 1988, and he's darn lucky to have beaten the odds and lived. His brain surgeon has already commented on Biden, stating no type of brain damage exists whatsoever. Ironically, it's just textbook stuttering—not the brain surgeries—that his detractors focus on in desperation to score political points.

And to those desperate individuals I say — do better. At least try. That way you won't look like an incompetent troll. Just a vanilla troll.
 

Jonny

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Here are graphs of the 2020 election cycle polling averages for various swing or otherwise close states, in order of the likelihood of being the "tipping point" state, per Fivethirtyeight.

B2qqyDX.png
 

Red Memories

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"Joe Biden has said things which show a deteriorating mental state."

How many times do we have to go over this - 10? 100? 1000?


Biden has a slight stutter at times but it was a much bigger deal when he was a kid, which he worked hard to overcome. It occasionally pops up in conversation or when giving a speech. Stuttering has nothing to do with any so-called 'deteriorating mental state.' For some, it has a genetic component so it can be found in other family members. Furthermore, he had two brain surgeries due to bleeding in the base of his brain in 1988, and he's darn lucky to have beaten the odds and lived. His brain surgeon has already commented on Biden, stating no type of brain damage exists whatsoever. Ironically, it's just textbook stuttering—not the brain surgeries—that his detractors focus on in desperation to score political points.

And to those desperate individuals I say — do better. At least try. That way you won't look like an incompetent troll. Just a vanilla troll.

I'm not trying to be a vanilla troll here - why don't they want an actual debate if that is so? Why did originally some of the core libs here consider him too incompetent to really be a candidate before having to settle into well he's better than nothing since Sanders didn't get his moment. I don't want this to become voting for Biden but actually voting for Harris.
 

Red Memories

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When did Biden or Harris say they did not want to debate? Never.
Thanks for trolling.

Good riddance.

I refer to the Democrats in general. I'm quite aware Biden is willing.

Pelosi urges Biden not to debate Trump just today. There was rumors they didn't want one before, but now they're saying it more openly. What does Biden have to lose by going to a debate anyway? I've never heard any candidates being suggested not to debate someone?

And by the way, you are being needlessly hostile.
 

ceecee

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I refer to the Democrats in general. I'm quite aware Biden is willing.

Pelosi urges Biden not to debate Trump just today. There was rumors they didn't want one before, but now they're saying it more openly. What does Biden have to lose by going to a debate anyway? I've never heard any candidates being suggested not to debate someone?

And by the way, you are being needlessly hostile.

I would be far more interested in a Don Jr/Hunter Biden debate. Or Ivanka. These dipshits are apparently the next generation GOP, let's see it. Hunter Biden is a philandering crackhead but I don't know that he is a grifting twat on the level of the Trump children - I will laugh at the first person dumb enough to put Hunter Biden and nepotism in a sentence like the Trump's could ever get a job as anything but a family parasite.

I really don't care about anyone else debating, including Harris. We've listened to years of Trump's bombastic stupid - don't care to hear any more and I'm apathetic to hearing Biden. I lol at most things Nancy Pelosi says, they're nearly all perfunctory.
 

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I saw a really interesting tweet by Harry Enten today:

ez6uH95.png


This makes intuitive sense, and for many of us watching on election night our perception of the likelihood of a Trump or Biden win would certainly shift in the ways Harry describes. I suppose I didn't realize that Florida is "likely going to count its votes fast." That would be all the better. Though I question how likely that is given the higher number of expected absentee ballots.


One of the many forecast sites out there has an interactive map that lets users adjust the forecast based on a known outcome in particular states:

2020 Presidential Forecast

Florida

Florida was called for Trump at 22:50 EST, and he eventually went on to win by about 1.2% of the vote.

If I put Florida in Trump's column, Biden has a ~40% chance of winning. If I put Florida in Biden's column, Trump has a ~3% chance of winning.

Pennsylvania

Pennsylvania was called for Trump at 01:15 EST, and he eventually went on to win by about 0.7% of the vote.

If I put Pennsylvania in Trump's column, Biden has a ~28% chance of winning. If I put Pennsylvania in Biden's column, Trump has a ~7% chance of winning.

Wisconsin

Wisconsin was called for Trump at 02:29 EST, and he eventually went on to win by about 0.8% of the vote.

If I put Wisconsin in Trump's column, Biden has a ~35% chance of winning. If I put Wisconsin in Biden's column, Trump has a ~6% chance of winning.

Michigan

Michigan was called well after election night, and Trump eventually went on to win by about 0.2% of the vote.

If I put Michigan in Trump's column, Biden has a ~22% chance of winning. If I put Wisconsin in Biden's column, Trump has a ~9% chance of winning.​


Based on the above, it certainly seems like Florida could be an early indicator of how the election might turn out. Just for reference, the NYT needle, seen here Live Presidential Forecast – Election Results 2016 – The New York Times, had Clinton at an 80% chance of winning early on election day, dropping to the high 60's by 21:00 EST, and to the mid-30's by 22:00 EST.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I just typed out a post on my phone, and then accidentally hit "restore auto-saved content" and erased it all (and some old unfinished post showed up). FFFfffff-f-f-fu-u-u-uuuu :ng_mad::ranting::2up:

The reason Pelosi doesn't think a debate is a good idea is because Trump operates outside the actual rules (which are mostly norms, and require a modicum of good faith and assurance the other person won't pull outright lies out of their ass and throw patently untrue mud) of a debate, *and* he's good at convincing his base that whoever is on the other side is the one who's doing it. (Even though he does this so consistently with EVERYONE who he disagrees with that it seems like ANYONE with any sense would figure out, at some point, HE is the one doing it - anyway). He can be put into a debate with someone who is an immaculate fact-checker, and who calls him on every piece of bullshit he cuts loose, and Trump could still manage to convince the kool-aid drinkers that the fact-checker is lying. It's what narcissists are really good at: eliciting an emotional reaction in the person they're interacting with that'll discredit them in the audience's (at least, Trump's base) eyes.

Biden believes that it'll be enough to be a fact-checker. I hope to God he's getting coaching from top psychologists on how to work with a narcissist. Because it's not going to be enough to be an immaculate fact-checker (if he can even be that good at that, which I'm also concerned about). He needs to NOT get baited or wound up, or Trump will use that as a distraction - and once that distraction starts, no matter how small, Trump will throw gasoline on it and it will take over anything else going on. Biden needs to laugh when Trump lies - not dramatically, but like Trump is a joke and of course he's wrong - and he needs to correct it without getting wound up or angry. He needs to treat Trump and the lying like a totally non-menacing little toddler who has been let on stage and whose lying is just ignorance that needs to be corrected by an adult. Narcissists are able to control so much narrative by stirring up vile emotions in people and using it as a distraction (and creating disparaging narratives about that emotional reaction, etc). Take that away, show them a mirror in which they are truly just a joke (but the person doing it has to truly believe they are a non-menacing joke), and it's so unbearable that they back away. It's too painful, they will change the narrative to allow anything that allows them to quietly back away while saving face - but it's so painful that they WILL back away. And I PRAY someone up there helping Biden out is getting this advice. Because if he winds Biden up, which he will put every effort into, then the debate will just turn into another Trump propaganda shitshow.
 
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