2020 Democratic Party primary thread

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Having experience in Washington hardly makes one a shit candidate. The reason Trump sucks shit is he doesn't have any at all, and should go back to wearing his Century 21 jacket.

uhhhhhh..... most people don't trust Washington and the Washington system (which is sometimes not unreasonable), so no, having a lot of experience in Washington is not an asset. Running for President is not the same as applying from other jobs where the more experience means the more likely you are to get it. Most of our recent presidents have either been new to the Washington scene (like Obama) or governors (like Dubya, Clinton, Reagan, and Carter).

I've never seen the candidate who drones on and on about how much experience they have in Washington actually win the Presidency. And I can see Biden getting on that debate stage and droning on and on about his experience in Washington.

 

[Jaguar]

uhhhhhh..... most people don't trust Washington and the Washington system (which is sometimes not unreasonable), so no, having a lot of experience in Washington is not an asset.

There's that crap line "most people," as if either of us knows what over 50% of the entire population actually thinks. Do better, birdie. If you think this election is like any other, then you really are missing the big picture. We got to see firsthand what it's like for an outsider to come in and screw up a country. Do you not realize our military is hanging its head? That we left people out to dry, and die, with the entire world watching? That those who were once our allies have no reason to trust us? That war criminals are being pardoned? That people on the ground in other countries have no reason to think what the USA says, or does, means anything at all? He turned an entire nation into Trump University. One giant con. And you don't think at a time like this experience would be a plus? Get serious. You have no idea how much work it's going to take to turn the ship around and the amount of time it will take to do it - years. Do you think everything will magically change simply by another person walking in? Hell, no. Whoever walks into the White House will have a job that no other has ever had - being in charge of putting the head back on The Statue of Liberty, that someone has intentionally decapitated.

I've never seen the candidate who drones on and on about how much experience they have in Washington actually win the Presidency.

Let's not bring Hillary Clinton to this discussion.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I don't think the problem is with Washington insiders vs outsiders so much as it is with political/governmental outsiders who have no idea about the fundamental basics of constitutional law.


And being a Washington outsider is really no guarantee someone will be less or more corrupt than an insider.


And no matter what, whoever is elected will have to play ball with DC insiders and will themselves become an insider by virtue of living and working in DC for 4 to 8 years

The system sucks but unfortunately whoever goes to the white house has to work within that system. If they want to "shake things up", I'm okay with that, so long as they're still going to respect constitutional law and procedure, which trump has shown no interest in following.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

There's that crap line "most people," as if either of us knows what over 50% of the entire population actually thinks.

Well, what about Congressional approval ratings? 40% has been the ceiling for most of this graph except for late in the 90's and early in the 2000s. In recent years it's been far lower.

Congress and the Public | Gallup Historical Trends

Doo better, birdie. If you think this election is like any other, then you really are missing the big picture.

Every single election I've voted in has not been like any other. But that doesn't mean it's not similar.

We got to see firsthand what it's like for an outsider to come in and screw up a country. Do you not realize our military is hanging its head? That we left people out to dry, and die, with the entire world watching? That those who were once our allies have no reason to trust us? That war criminals are being pardoned?

Yes, and do you really think that's enough that the current guy is terrible? This is all stuff that could have been predicted, and people voted for him anyway. What would make the situation different now? You also vastly overestimate the extent to which Americans care about what the rest of the world thinks of us. It sure as shit didn't matter in 2004. Why would it matter now which a much lower body count?

That people on the ground in other countries have no reason to think what the USA says, or does, means anything at all? He turned an entire nation into Trump University. One giant con. And you don't think at a time like this experience would be a plus? Get serious. You have no idea how much work it's going to take to turn the ship around and the amount of time it will take to do it - years. Do you think everything will magically change simply by another person walking in? Hell, no. Whoever walks into the White House will have a job that no other has ever had - being in charge of putting the head back on The Statue of Liberty, that someone has intentionally decapitated.

It would be nice not to have someone who will give handouts to billionaires like the last guy in charge of putting the head back on the Statue of Liberty (I disagree that it's a job nobody else has had), and thus avoid being in the same or worse situation 8 years later, but that's overly optimistic. I'll settle for a centrist if I think he can win. I don't think Biden can.

Let's not bring Hillary Clinton to this discussion.

Biden is like Hillary, and will run the same kind of campaign as Hillary.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I don't think the problem is with Washington insiders vs outsiders so much as it is with political/governmental outsiders who have no idea about the fundamental basics of constitutional law.


And being a Washington outsider is really no guarantee someone will be less or more corrupt than an insider.

It doesn't, but guess what? That's what a lot of voters think. That's what we're dealing with. Ignoring the facts on the ground because of idealistic ideas about the electorate (something I'm sure people are eager to accuse me of, but I digress) is not a winning strategy.

The system sucks but unfortunately whoever goes to the white house has to work within that system. If they want to "shake things up", I'm okay with that, so long as they're still going to respect constitutional law and procedure, which trump has shown no interest in following.

American voters don't care about constitutional law and procedure. It wasn't hard to predict that Trump would show no regard for such things, and again, people voted for him anyway.

 

[Jaguar]

Every single election I've voted in has not been like any other. But that doesn't mean it's not similar.

You don't seem to be able to grasp the gravity of the situation. No, this country has never been in this situation. Ever.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You don't seem to be able to grasp the gravity of the situation. No, this country has never been in this situation. Ever.

No, we've been in worse. But at least the norms were being followed.

 

[Jaguar]

No, we've been in worse.

Let's hear it.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Let's hear it.

Dubya and Cheyney at all that bunch.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

If Trump starts war with Iran, then maybe I'll consider him the worst president ever.

 

[Jaguar]

Dubya and Cheyney at all that bunch.

Like I said, you don't seem to be able to grasp the gravity of the situation.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Like I said, you don't seem to be able to grasp the gravity of the situation.

You don't seem to care anything about your own immediate sphere of experience. Which, actually, makes you a lot like plenty of Americans.

 

[Jaguar]

You don't seem to care anything about your own immediate sphere of experience. Which, actually, makes you a lot like plenty of Americans.

You don't seem to have a clue what I care about. As a matter of fact, your perception is terrible.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You don't seem to have a clue what I care about. As a matter of fact, your perception is terrible.

I just think you're blinded by idealism.

 

[Jaguar]

I just think you're blinded by idealism.

Your perception is terrible. Still.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Your perception is terrible.

Uh, ok, Mr. "Americans want to vote for someone with a lot of Washington experience because it will be better for our perception abroad."

 

[Jaguar]

Americans want to vote for someone with a lot of Washington experience because it will be better for our perception abroad.

I disagree. Next.

 

[Totenkindly]

I lived through Dubya and Cheney as an adult; and while I had my issues regarding that administration, the situation is far worse today from a broad ideal perspective (a lot of the structure of government is being eroded/destroyed) as well as a lot of specific policy decisions that have specific negative impact on demographics outside the administration's favored. I honestly don't know if this country will recover structurally from the erosion of processes meant to support some kind of order and law. too many inequities, too much imbalance, too little respect for process, an eroded trust, growing economic imbalance, all the prior norms that sustained us being thrown out the window -- so it will be easier in the future for similar erosion and/or worse to occur. There's a lot of people who have left government as well -- the old-timers, the competent, the people who are sick of having to clean up the messes and keep the lights on while those without knowledge or skill run it into the ground. It just feels like a losing battle. This was not necessarily the case under the Dubya years.

It's also reduced what respect and power we had in the world. I don't think we're going to regain that, we've lost our former place at the table. Maybe some of that is good, so we're part of the world collective rather than in charge; but at the same time, we're more like family black sheep now that the rest of the family tolerates/jokes about at holidays.

Yeah, a war is a war. Wars suck. The thing is, I have no doubt that along with all the extra problems this administration has caused, if it would benefit the leaders personally to go to war tomorrow, they would do THAT too -- if they don't inadvertently trigger one out of bad decision making and stupid jockeying for self-esteem.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I disagree. Next.

Then what, pray tell, do you think the electorate wants?

 

[Firebird 8118]

Then what, pray tell, do you think the electorate wants?

With all due respect, I don't think the electorate represents the views of all Americans.

Just saying.