Who sucks?

[pure_mercury]

There are lots of complex percussion styles outside of jazz, but a good jazz drummer will have an easier time learning new complex styles than the average drummer of other genres, because their style already requires complex playing to begin with.

Talent isn't just about being able to play complex music and technical know-how. Talented pop and blues musicians know how to create good songs that lots of people will like. Without talent, you suck.

"Jazz is the last refuge of the untalented. Jazz musicians enjoy themselves more than anyone listening to them does." - Tony Wilson

 

[Ivy]

"Jazz is the last refuge of the untalented. Jazz musicians enjoy themselves more than anyone listening to them does." - Tony Wilson

I want to shake that man's hand.

ajb, why are you comparing "a good jazz musician" to "the average drummer of other genres"? Shouldn't you compare like with like?

 

[ajblaise]

I want to shake that man's hand.

ajb, why are you comparing "a good jazz musician" to "the average drummer of other genres"? Shouldn't you compare like with like?

Alright, I meant to say an average or typical jazz musician compared to the average/typical drummer of most other genres, especially popular genres.

 

[ajblaise]

"Jazz is the last refuge of the untalented. Jazz musicians enjoy themselves more than anyone listening to them does." - Tony Wilson

Well it has been said that Jazz is a musician's music. Pop is the lowest common denominator's music.

 

[pure_mercury]

Well it has been said that Jazz is a musician's music. Pop is the lowest common denominator's music.

Jazz is fine, as long as it doesn't make you look down your nose at music that is just as valid. So, in your case, it's not fine.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Actually, the last refuge of the untalented is punk, honestly and truley.

 

[pure_mercury]

Actually, the last refuge of the untalented is punk, honestly and truley.

That's the first refuge of people who aren't any good and don't care, but in a good way. Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols and London Calling are better than any jazz album of the last 30 years, that is for sure.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

That's the first refuge of people who aren't any good and don't care, but in a good way. Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols and London Calling are better than any jazz album of the last 30 years, that is for sure.

Well, first of all, jazz of the last thirty years has not be nearly as good as the jazz in the first forty years of the 20th century.

Secondly, those who don't care, still really suck, regardless of how little they care about the fact that they suck. In fact, that just makes me want to pull my hair out. What's worse than punk music, is the entire concept of punk aesthetic philosophy.

 

[pure_mercury]

Well, first of all, jazz of the last thirty years has not be nearly as good as the jazz in the first forty years of the 20th century.

We agree on this, although much of the jazz I enjoy was recorded between 1945 and 1975.

Secondly, those who don't care, still really suck, regardless of how little they care about the fact that they suck. In fact, that just makes me want to pull my hair out. What's worse than punk music, is the entire concept of punk aesthetic philosophy.

I kind of like the punk aesthetic. I don't like the nihilism or the willful amateurishness, but I do enjoy the "Who really gives a fuck?" attitude and the whole "Let's get back to what rock n' roll used to be" aesthetic. The Ramones were much more reverent and relevant inheritors to artists like The Ventures and Phil Spector and Little Richard than were, say, Supertramp. I recently read MOJO's Punk: The Whole Story, and it was a fantastic read. Amazing photos, lots of interesting stories, just great stuff. The vast majority of punk bands the last 20 years have been moronic, but that doesn't diminish the brilliance of the musicians who came before them.

 

[Geoff]

Who sucks? People who don't realise that liking or disliking music is entirely subjective

Some people like technical expertise, some artistic composition, some the style and delivery, some the rebellion, some the mainstream, some because their friends like it.. and so it goes on.

Fortunately, there is room for us to like our own things

 

[animenagai]

i agree with the romeo and juliet hate. a couple meets, falls in love, gets married, fucks, one gets exiled and both eventually commit suicide for the other all in under a week. this is supposed to be the greatest love of all time and shakespeare's best work? please, that's insulting to all of us. if you want shakespeare, you can go read othello, hamlet and all his other stuff. romeo and juliet? victorian chickflick.

 

[INA]

i agree with the romeo and juliet hate. a couple meets, falls in love, gets married, fucks, one gets exiled and both eventually commit suicide for the other all in under a week. this is supposed to be the greatest love of all time and shakespeare's best work? please, that's insulting to all of us. if you want shakespeare, you can go read othello, hamlet and all his other stuff. romeo and juliet? victorian chickflick.

people think romeo & juliet is his best work?

 

[Night]

Motaro
Andy Dick
Kevin Trudeau
Judge Judith Sheindlan
Leprosy
Coopers
Pope Urban VIII
God Rugal
Jim Jones
Michael Moore
Allen Iverson
Michael Vick
Peter Griffin
Mephistopheles / Lucifer Morningstar

 

[pure_mercury]

Motaro
Andy Dick
Kevin Trudeau
Judge Judith Sheindlan
Leprosy
Coopers
Pope Urban VIII
God Rugal
Jim Jones
Michael Moore
Allen Iverson
Michael Vick
Peter Griffin
Mephistopheles / Lucifer Morningstar

Oh, come on now. Jim Jones? I know the critical tide has turned against him the last 30 years or so, but. . .

 

[animenagai]

people think romeo & juliet is his best work?

well for one thing, it's hands down the most discussed. maybe not so amongst the shakespearean scolars, but amongst the general public? definitely.

 

[Night]

Oh, come on now. Jim Jones? I know the critical tide has turned against him the last 30 years or so, but. . .

Ha - maybe I'll give him a reconsider.

After all, he had an unconventional way of protecting airport security.

well for one thing, it's hands down the most discussed. maybe not so amongst the shakespearean scolars, but amongst the general public? definitely.

Othello is much more flavorful.

As is Twelfth Night and The Tempest.

 

[pure_mercury]

people think romeo & juliet is his best work?

I don't think they think that. I think they think it's the best love story. Most people think his best work is one of Hamlet, "The Scottish Play" (superstition!), or King Lear. Unless you're T.S Eliot, and you think his best work is Coriolanus, for some reason.

 

[Ivy]

i agree with the romeo and juliet hate. a couple meets, falls in love, gets married, fucks, one gets exiled and both eventually commit suicide for the other all in under a week. this is supposed to be the greatest love of all time and shakespeare's best work? please, that's insulting to all of us. if you want shakespeare, you can go read othello, hamlet and all his other stuff. romeo and juliet? victorian chickflick.

psst.. Shakespeare wasn't a Victorian

 

[Geoff]

psst.. Shakespeare wasn't a Victorian

Heh. I'd recommend Bill Bryson's "Shakespeare" for a recently published short and sweet amusingly written biog. It points out in this that he wasn't a victorian, too.

Oh, and I'd say his best work is MacBeth. Maybe because I liked Terry Pratchett's take on it with Wyrd Sisters?

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Motaro
Andy Dick
Kevin Trudeau
Judge Judith Sheindlan
Leprosy
Coopers
Pope Urban VIII
God Rugal
Jim Jones
Michael Moore
Allen Iverson
Michael Vick
Peter Griffin
Mephistopheles / Lucifer Morningstar

Allen Iverson is tough as nails and wants to win more than anyone. That's good enough for me.