ST:Discovery - What do you think of the new Klingons?

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I believe the Vulcan is actually a human raised on Vulcan, by Sarek it seems.

I was about to correct you on that.

 

[Mal12345]

I was about to correct you on that.

Thank you for almost correcting me on that.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Thank you for almost correcting me on that.

You're welcome.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Either way I'm too poor to afford another streaming service so I'll have to sit this show out. Bummer if it turns out to be good. I'm one of those annoying fandom types who gets butt hurt about changes to my fandom anyway

 

[Atomic Fiend]

How was it? I had work and I'm not paying for that damn streaming service.

 

[Totenkindly]

I just finished the pilot and will watch episode 2 in a moment.

The Klingon opening was "okay, maybe." I didn't really like the banter in the desert segment next, it stunk with the stench of "Trek cliche." As did the first 5-10 minutes on the bridge. Like, how many of us could write this dialogue in our sleep?

And I still don't get why they send the first officer on a mission that would be better handled by a specialist (I'm talking about flying through the debris belt) -- aside from the fact they want you to care about someone on crew who actually has power to make decisions for the ship, and it might feel boring if it was Joe Schmoe, 3rd Falcon Navigator, who was doing all the fun dirty work. It's a problem, I think, if you think too hard about it as in it not making sense. How many second in commands on a battleship hop in a skiff with the marines to go a firing spree as a landing party? It's the old Trek conundrum.

However, the episode got better and better as it unfolded. Yeah, sure, I am tired of Klingons, but... I guess this is an interesting moment in time for relationships among the various species. The Klingons were interesting. The last minute was a jaw-dropper, although then it backed off right as the episode ended. Still, if they can be that ballsy on an ongoing basis, then damn, go for it!

And I am talking about Michael vulcan-pinching the captain and taking command under false pretense. WTF, wow! But unfortunately, then it proved her right by having all the other Klingons show up, justifying her behavior, rather than letting her sweat it out for a bit in the brig or taking a phaser shot.

I assume Doug Jones is playing the funky-faced alien science officer?

Thank you for almost correcting me on that.

You're almost welcome.

fixed

 

[Totenkindly]

haha, second episode opening sequence.... I feel validated now.


---

Done.

Damn. Okay, they won me over. This is going in a completely different direction than could be anticipated and I think it's pretty cool.

This seriously could be the best Trek ever.


Side comments about Michael:

I was kinda thrown off in that first desert scene, when she's acting like a Vulcan but then.... her ears. She seemed human.

There was a reason for that. She's exactly what I perceived... a human RAISED by vulcans. Pretty fascinating approach.

Also, I vehemently repeat my comment in my last post about freaking AWAY TEAMS. What the hell is wrong with the Federation in this regard?



Pretty fair coverage:
Star Trek: Discovery shows us a side of the Federation we’ve never seen | Ars Technica

I agree, it's not necessarily the show is "darker" than all other Treks, it's definitely more complicated though. I like how Burnham is flawed despite good intentions and also that as in real life, in situations where you have to make hard decisions, either sometimes those decisions might BE the wrong ones, or be the right ones but still lead to some bad ramifications, or.... well... complicated, as I said. This series seems willing to allow for things to not turn out as one expects.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

So I'm only watching the first episode and Jesus, Micheals may be in the right, but she is on JJ Abrams version of Kirk bullshit right now.

Straight up mutiny and nerve pinching the captain of the ship? Wow...

 

[Totenkindly]

So I'm only watching the first episode and Jesus, Micheals may be in the right, but she is on JJ Abrams version of Kirk bullshit right now.

Lol. Yeah.

Kirk always wore plot armor though.



‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Pilot: One of the Most Pirated TV Episodes | IndieWire
Star Trek: Discovery Shockers: Georgiou’s Destiny, Burnham’s Deed | IndieWire

 

[Atomic Fiend]

Lol. Yeah.

Kirk always wore plot armor though.



‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Pilot: One of the Most Pirated TV Episodes | IndieWire
Star Trek: Discovery Shockers: Georgiou’s Destiny, Burnham’s Deed | IndieWire

Subscription based programs will always be more pirated then not. I was good and didn't pirate them this time.

There is no visual indicator on this era's uniform to differentiate between tactical, engineering, and science officers. It's no wonder that concussed crew member walked into the brig when looking for medical staff; Everyone was wearing the same damn thing!

This probably makes Micheals a better character but man think about this, The three main characters who pissed on the prime directive the most notably were a black man (Sisko) a woman (Janaway) and now a Black Woman (Micheals).

Micheals really does however thanks to framing and strong story telling, even though her intentions were good, as the one who handled this in the wrong way. She's not some unsung hero.
She was on the ship for 7 years, the same length of time and seasons for TNG, DS9, and Voy. Imagine you getting attached to this crew for seven years, and them seeing and expieriencing all the wonders space has to offer, all the diplomacy and intrapersonal drama, and the final season of that show ends with the first officer causing the death of the captain and the destrucation of the title ship and the show ends on that note.

That's what these two first episodes of discovery showed me.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

So I guess with the positive reception it's getting this means Nick Meyer's series will be put on the back burner.

 

[Totenkindly]

Subscription based programs will always be more pirated then not. I was good and didn't pirate them this time.

There is no visual indicator on this era's uniform to differentiate between tactical, engineering, and science officers. It's no wonder that concussed crew member walked into the brig when looking for medical staff; Everyone was wearing the same damn thing!

This probably makes Micheals a better character but man think about this, The three main characters who pissed on the prime directive the most notably were a black man (Sisko) a woman (Janaway) and now a Black Woman (Micheals).

Micheals really does however thanks to framing and strong story telling, even though her intentions were good, as the one who handled this in the wrong way. She's not some unsung hero.
She was on the ship for 7 years, the same length of time and seasons for TNG, DS9, and Voy. Imagine you getting attached to this crew for seven years, and them seeing and expieriencing all the wonders space has to offer, all the diplomacy and intrapersonal drama, and the final season of that show ends with the first officer causing the death of the captain and the destrucation of the title ship and the show ends on that note.

That's what these two first episodes of discovery showed me.

That's not what actually happened, from what I could tell.

She actually was correct and was the only one in the position to save the ship. Firing on the Klingons is a show of strength (as proven by the Vulcans, who after having a ship destroyed first by the Klingons, took up a "Prisoner's dilemma" approach and always fired first in the future... leading to a truce), the only thing they respect. Suing for peace is viewed as either trickery or weakness... and also in this case, to accept peace would be to allow the individuality of the Klingon culture and genetics to be diluted and lose coherence.

Unfortunately, the captain (understandably) refused to listen to her because firing on the ship violated Starfleet regulations.

Usually regulations make sense. In this case, the regs were wrong. They had not engaged the Klingons for a century.

To save the lives of her friend and the crew/ship, Burnham assaulted the captain and took over the ship... which failed.... and got thrown in the brig.

She managed to save her life through smart thinking when the ship was badly damaged, and instead of escaping and leaving went back to the deck to help, providing her captain with another solution that might possibly prevent further war and loss of life.

Unfortunately, that mission failed -- the Klingon became a martyr, her captain was killed and she was taken back for trial. And was court-martialed and sentenced to life in prison.

So she had the right idea, but implemented it in a way that only got her further in trouble with the Starfleet tribunal, and then was punished even though the loss of Starfleet ships was actually the result of regulation practices and incorrect decisions on the part of the commanders of various vessels. The Admiral's death (and the destruction of his ship) was a mistake on his part, although he followed Starfleet's ideals. If they had violated federation ideals and followed Burnham's advice, yes, their ideological purity would have been tarnished but all those people would be alive and they would not now be at war for years.

I also see Burnham as struggling between her Vulcan and human sides. She's entirely human but is affected by trauma + learned to cope by overlaying a Vulcan element to her personality. She did not choose to mutiny because she hated her fellow crew; she felt like they were all going to die and she did what she did to save them. I think she even SAYS this to the captain in private, when the captain guilts her later.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

That's not what actually happened, from what I could tell.

So she had the right idea, but implemented it in a way that only got her further in trouble with the Starfleet tribunal, and then was punished even though the loss of Starfleet ships was actually the result of regulation practices and incorrect decisions on the part of the commanders of various vessels. The Admiral's death (and the destruction of his ship) was a mistake on his part, although he followed Starfleet's ideals.

Well yeah. That's what I was saying. In less words.

 

[tinker683]

I'm actually OK with it. I get that they're trying to re-imagine Klingons so I'm waiting to see how it plays out. As I was watching the Klingons speak, I was wondering if their were any Simpsons-Comic-book-Guys-ST-Fans who actually knew Klingon who could confirm or deny if they were genuinely speaking the language or just making shit up.

 

[Totenkindly]

watched episode 3.

This is a decent series. It's still episodic but not as contrived feeling as I remember from Voyager. (I never watched Enterprise.) The characters are allowed to be complex and multi-faceted. I like how everyone's both awed and terrified and sometimes even disdainful of Burnham, and she gets a lot of smackdown throughout the episode. Damn. Glad they cast Jason Isaacs in this too -- he's a great actor and he brings intelligence, backbone, and a bit of mystique to Captain Gabriel Lorca.

They are doing the right thing and really focusing on the interactions between the various characters, rather than focusing on silly scifi dialogue. Yes, that still happens; but it doesn't feel as fluffy, and if there is stuff discussed, it's generally got a bearing on the human element. Lorca's pitch to Burnham is spot on, he did read her right. But I love that maybe while he does have vision and benevolence in some ways, he might have a darker side... or maybe it's just a pragmatic one.

It's also visually grittier. There's some physical stuff here (in terms of bodies and such) that is pretty harrowing. This is not prettied-up Trek. Also solved the away team issue by having a lead who is not an officer.

 

[Riva]

Okay I watched all three episodes. I hate to say this but I didn't enjoy it. I was forcing myself to go through them. That's never a good sign.

A few reasons as to why I didn't enjoy them:

(1) TNG version of Star Trek was my favourite to the 1 max 2 episodes story arcs - although I believe ds99 was the best written when it comes to story arcs and character building - and I was expecting this series to go back to those roots especially since ST Enterprise had a similar ONE-LONG arc and it failed.

People don't want to watch a whole series to have a good ending, it's better if it's given 1 or 2 episodes at a time. It's okay to have a reaccuring antagonist. TNG had the Romulans and then the Borg.

(2) It looks too tensed. Too tensed to sit back and enjoy it. Was too rushed too.

(3) Fucking tired of seeing the Kligons making macho die-for-honour talk. To make things worse unlike in DS9 these Kligons didn't seem to have a thirst for life. They look bored and dead inside. It's like seeing Daniel Craig playing James Bond. He's a great actor, probably the most qualified actor who played Bond but man he takes the fun out of Bond.

(4) I can't help but compare it to The Orville - and I hate to say this - which I feel nails the old Generation Star Trek more so than this series. I believe Nostalgia is a reason why people keep coming back for it, but Discovery offers none of that.

(5) What's up with the shitty theme song?

 

[Riva]

I am hoping they would learn from Enterprise's last season and focus more on shorter story arcs. Like I said it's okay - infact smart - to have have a reoccurring villain but when the reoccurring villain is the villain in all the fucking episodes it sucks.

 

[Mal12345]

I watched all three episodes of ST. I saw a genetically created super-being that reminded me of Alien, and a fortune cookie that doubled as a red pill/blue pill offer. And a captain who has perhaps gone renegade, I'm not sure yet, and is faced with making many black-and-white decisions.

I saw laser weapons that aren't nearly as destructive as phasers. I'm hoping phasers make a comeback. I don't care for disruptors very much. Phasers are cool weapons.

Many youngsters are surprised about a female being named "Michael," probably because they are too young to know about the actress Michael Learned who played in the hit TV show in the 1970s to early '80s called The Waltons.

 

[Mal12345]

I'm watching episode 4 right now. Just as I suspected, the captain wants to weaponize the alien beast, and ripping off the Alien franchise.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

The Aliens films invented weaponizing a species? A more modern advent then I previously thought.