Non-Vegan Animal Sympathizers

[Crabs]

I use "animal sympathizers" for lack of a better term. How do you deal with the cognitive dissonance caused by eating meat, or do you even have any? Do you simply draw a distinction between your pets that you consider family and the animals you eat? Do you see it as a moral issue at all or is it simply a matter of satisfying your own animalistic appetite, despite whatever sympathy you may have for other animals?

I haven't chosen to live a vegan lifestyle, mainly for health reasons, though I haven't done a great deal of research on the subject either. I am skeptical that if humans were to stop eating meat (which will never happen anyway) that it would have an overall positive impact on the environment. Still, I find the idea of killing a living being, for reasons other than survival, a bit unsettling. This is why I'm looking forward to an expanding market of in vitro meat to minimize the mistreatment and slaughter of animals for human consumption. Even if that becomes a reality, however, I imagine that a lot of additional measures would have to be taken in order to keep certain animal populations under control. Unfortunately, in many cases, over-population is dealt with by killing animals en-masse, which would ultimately defeat the purpose of not killing them for food.

Thoughts?

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Stop eating meat unless you're OK with accelerating the very near demise of the planet. You asshole!

 

[Merced]

Stop eating meat unless you're OK with accelerating the very near demise of the planet. You asshole!

View attachment 16188

Okay so here is why if we all stopped eating meat, the [inevitable] demise of earth would be come upon us sinful meat eating savages quicker.

That image is of a food chain. Notice how there are more plants and herbivores than carnivores? The carnivores eat the herbivores. Let's say we removed carnivores from the chain. What would happen? Well there would be a lot more herbivores. Too many herbivores. There wouldn't be enough plants to feed all those herbivores. The earth would run out of plants.

This will result in two major, dire consequences.

A) Competition will mean a lot of species dying out. If we all held hands and sung songs and only ate salads, we could be one of the unlucky species that dies out.

B) After all that competition, there won't be anymore oxygen. Plants make oxygen. No more plants means no air.

So chill it with the illogical thinking. Cows and chickens are nice and don't deserve to be put into slaughter houses and blah, blah, blah, but not eating meat isn't going to solve anything. Instead of calling people asshole on personality forums, support people who treat their animals well. Eat meat that is from natural farms. Get educated. Learn how to better your environment! Start a garden, drink water from companies that aren't based in water starved places (#NestleIsEvil), convert to more ecofriendly forms of energy! Ignorance is no longer an excuse. Educate yourself and then make the world a better place.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

View attachment 16188

Ignorance is no longer an excuse. Educate yourself and then make the world a better place.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I use "animal sympathizers" for lack of a better term. How do you deal with the cognitive dissonance caused by eating meat, or do you even have any? Do you simply draw a distinction between your pets that you consider family and the animals you eat? Do you see it as a moral issue at all or is it simply a matter of satisfying your own animalistic appetite, despite whatever sympathy you may have for other animals?

I haven't chosen to live a vegan lifestyle, mainly for health reasons, though I haven't done a great deal of research on the subject either. I am skeptical that if humans were to stop eating meat (which will never happen anyway) that it would have an overall positive impact on the environment. Still, I find the idea of killing a living being, for reasons other than survival, a bit unsettling. This is why I'm looking forward to an expanding market of in vitro meat to minimize the mistreatment and slaughter of animals for human consumption. Even if that becomes a reality, however, I imagine that a lot of additional measures would have to be taken in order to keep certain animal populations under control. Unfortunately, in many cases, over-population is dealt with by killing animals en-masse, which would ultimately defeat the purpose of not killing them for food.

Thoughts?

This isn't an either/or situation. I'm not going to eat my cat, because I have formed a bond between that animal and myself.

Is my pet any different than a cow? Not really. In some parts of the world they don't make exceptions.

But I don't have a cow as a pet. I haven't come home and hugged my cow after a bad day. If I did, maybe I wouldn't kill THAT cow but I may have no trouble killing another for consumption as it is a preferred food source. (#NotAllCows) It doesn't mean I hate cows or enjoy killing. It just means that there are certain realities in life. One of those is that as a human being, I am at the top of the food chain. Other animals kill and eat other animals. Why would I demonize this? It just seems natural to me.

If someone decides that they will not eat animals because of this, I totally understand that and that is fine by me. It's not my thing. I like the taste of meat. Saying that, it doesn't mean humans cannot be smarter about conservation of resources and making informed and better decisions about how much they eat. They should also have ethical treatments and care for these animals that are food sources.

 

[cascadeco]

This isn't an either/or situation. I'm not going to eat my cat, because I have formed a bond between that animal and myself.

Is my pet any different than a cow? Not really. In some parts of the world they don't make exceptions.

But I don't have a cow as a pet. I haven't come home and hugged my cow after a bad day. If I did, maybe I wouldn't kill THAT cow but I may have no trouble killing another for consumption as it is a preferred food source. (#NotAllCows) It doesn't mean I hate cows or enjoy killing. It just means that there are certain realities in life. One of those is that as a human being, I am at the top of the food chain. Other animals kill and eat other animals. Why would I demonize this? It just seems natural to me.

If someone decides that they will not eat animals because of this, I totally understand that and that is fine by me. It's not my thing. I like the taste of meat. Saying that, it doesn't mean humans cannot be smarter about conservation of resources and making informed and better decisions about how much they eat. They should also have ethical treatments and care for these animals that are food sources.

Pretty much this. And I'll echo death occurring across all levels of the food chain. The majestic hawk wouldn't exist if it didn't brutally kill the mouse or snake. The lion killing the gazelle and putting it through a slow death. etc And especially humane treatment of the animals we do eat. As humans, we, unlike all the other consumers in the food chain, have the ability to cushion the pain and living factor in the animals we eat.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Plus, even vegetation is "life" as much as some random cow. What is lower on the food chain is still on the food chain. So vegans kill life to live as much as anyone else...... a soy burger still has death attached to it, just a different form.

I will keep my omnivore status. I do want to minimize my processed food, but that is another issue.....

 

[senza tema]

The killing itself doesn't bother me per se. The way in which in industrial farms it's done is horrifyingly inhumane though. I genuinely feel terrible about participating in that. I'm not vegan and not even vegetarian strictly speaking but I do feel a measure of guilt each time I partake so I try to limit it to the best of my capacity.

Cows and chickens and the like are domesticated animals so I don't think they're suddenly going to take over the world if we cut back on eating them. If we cut back on eating them, we'll cut back on breeding them. Seems simple enough.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Even though it's more pricey ( but also more tasty) I buy free range.

 

[Reborn Relic]

View attachment 16188

Okay so here is why if we all stopped eating meat, the [inevitable] demise of earth would be come upon us sinful meat eating savages quicker.

That image is of a food chain. Notice how there are more plants and herbivores than carnivores? The carnivores eat the herbivores. Let's say we removed carnivores from the chain. What would happen? Well there would be a lot more herbivores. Too many herbivores. There wouldn't be enough plants to feed all those herbivores. The earth would run out of plants.

This will result in two major, dire consequences.

A) Competition will mean a lot of species dying out. If we all held hands and sung songs and only ate salads, we could be one of the unlucky species that dies out.

B) After all that competition, there won't be anymore oxygen. Plants make oxygen. No more plants means no air.

So chill it with the illogical thinking. Cows and chickens are nice and don't deserve to be put into slaughter houses and blah, blah, blah, but not eating meat isn't going to solve anything. Instead of calling people asshole on personality forums, support people who treat their animals well. Eat meat that is from natural farms. Get educated. Learn how to better your environment! Start a garden, drink water from companies that aren't based in water starved places (#NestleIsEvil), convert to more ecofriendly forms of energy! Ignorance is no longer an excuse. Educate yourself and then make the world a better place.

As someone that is a vegan and at least planning to do a bit more outside of internet forums with my life, I'm going to have to take exception to the false dichotomy here. Just because predation is a form of population control does not make it the form of population control, and given the degree to which we can mess with the lives of animals on farms, I'm sure we can find a way to at least separate breeding populations when we need to. I don't claim to have the exact method, but that's what R&D is for, honestly. You think everything we've built was finished in a day?

Although, to be honest, I'm fine with there being some meat eating still going on in certain contexts, for people that can't stay healthy on a vegan diet and as a supplemental form of population control for times when other means don't work out. The thing is, that's way outpaced by what we do eat, not by virtue of treatment but by virtue of numbers.

And this took a grand total of 5 minutes to post, so I'll have plenty of time to make the world a better place, I think.

A'ight, done with the derail. I vill let you all chatter.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

It is possible to be a meat eater and sympathize with animals. Shout outs to Temple Grandin, who devised a better way to murder cows which made the animals calmer and happier prior to death.

My biggest concern is quality of life of animals we eat. I refuse to eat fois gras due to the miserable existence of those birds.

I have a soft spot for animals. Today a bird flew in front of my car and I had no way to stop. It looked like there were 2, but I only hit one. It was either a robin or a cardinal, and I think they mate for life, so I was upset I killed some animal's partner.

 

[Crabs]

This isn't an either/or situation. I'm not going to eat my cat, because I have formed a bond between that animal and myself.

Is my pet any different than a cow? Not really. In some parts of the world they don't make exceptions.

But I don't have a cow as a pet. I haven't come home and hugged my cow after a bad day. If I did, maybe I wouldn't kill THAT cow but I may have no trouble killing another for consumption as it is a preferred food source. (#NotAllCows) It doesn't mean I hate cows or enjoy killing. It just means that there are certain realities in life. One of those is that as a human being, I am at the top of the food chain. Other animals kill and eat other animals. Why would I demonize this? It just seems natural to me.

Yeah, but doesn't that inconsistency bother you? I mean, I'm the same way, but I feel like a hypocrite for selectively placing higher value on certain animals; not just my pets, but dogs and cats in general. I saw a video of dogs being slaughtered in some eastern country and I've been scarred for life.

Yet I firmly support the murder of every spider I see.

It is possible to be a meat eater and sympathize with animals. Shout outs to Temple Grandin, who devised a better way to murder cows which made the animals calmer and happier prior to death.

My biggest concern is quality of life of animals we eat. I refuse to eat fois gras due to the miserable existence of those birds.

I get that. Treating animals more humanely is a step in the right direction. Still, it kinda seems like it's more to make non-vegans feel better about the fact that we're killing other living beings. "Well...at least they were happy BEFORE we murdered them."

 

[Thalassa]

I'm not going to troll your thread, but three things:

1) plants aren't sentient, anyone who says plants are also living is putting forth a straw man because of sentience, pain and suffering in animal life.

2) while death occurs in the food chain, some animals are natural vegans and vegetarians, and even animals who kill for food don't systemically factory farm and cruelly inseminate, imprison, and slaughter other animals for food to an unnatural degree that actually harms not only the livestock, but human health because of hormones, antibiotics, food poisoning, chemically treated meat, and environmental pollution

3) from an environmental standpoint, cattle farming is the number one reason for clearing the rain forest, and cattle and hog farming cause air and water pollution for miles, as well as wasting land ...they also consume grain and soy which could be fed to humans. And going on to completely grass fed cattle means only the richest elite in the world would be eating much beef, just like Edwardian England

I'm not here to argue, but some of these posts need information.

 

[Crabs]

It doesn't mean I hate cows or enjoy killing. It just means that there are certain realities in life. One of those is that as a human being, I am at the top of the food chain. Other animals kill and eat other animals. Why would I demonize this? It just seems natural to me.

I always find this to be an interesting philosophical perspective. Some human beings are also higher on the food chain than other human beings. And if we are animals, is there really anything inherently evil in eating other humans? Of course, this answer depends on the nature of morality itself. If it truly exists then why don't people unanimously agree on the parameters of morality? And even if we did, it would be a logical fallacy in and of itself: Argumentum ad populum. Yet we still demonize cannibals and psychopaths, do we not?

 

[Cloudpatrol]

[MENTION=23796]Crabs[/MENTION]

I think we've talked about this before

My primary concern is the practices involved with animal husbandry - and the cruel, greedy and unhealthy components involved.

I source my stuff from a local farm where I can visit and observe how the animals are kept. I don't always have to eat meat either - love beans, lentil soup...

An interesting thought you bring up. Some religions feel that animals were given as food. i.e. With Halal meat, the animals have a prayer of thankfulness offered before the killing.

The inherent health risks of consuming human flesh may lend answer to your question about cannibalism:

Spotlight: Why Cannibalism is Bad for You | HealthMap

https://www.inverse.com/article/7449-is-it-possible-to-be-a-healthy-cannibal-and-avoid-prion-disease

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Yeah, but doesn't that inconsistency bother you? I mean, I'm the same way, but I feel like a hypocrite for selectively placing higher value on certain animals; not just my pets, but dogs and cats in general. I saw a video of dogs being slaughtered in some eastern country and I've been scarred for life.

Yet I firmly support the murder of every spider I see.



I get that. Treating animals more humanely is a step in the right direction. Still, it kinda seems like it's more to make non-vegans feel better about the fact that we're killing other living beings. "Well...at least they were happy BEFORE we murdered them."

I don't think it's about making people feel better. Well, maybe it is, but for me, it's about accepting my place in the order of things as a predator and meat eater but having some measure of respect for fellow animals. I would kill an animal for survival, but I've never seen the point in hunting purely for sport. That said, I have nothing against most hunters, perhaps due to growing up in an area where so many people hunted.

 

[kyuuei]

Mainly? Because I was designed for it. When I look at a cheetah on the animal planet documentary eating a whatever cheetahs are into lately. .. I don't think it's a monster. It's born for that.

People make a big deal out of animals and emotional attachments despite many people having similar emotions towards plants, and more and more research is showing just how sophisticated plants are. They can tell they're being eaten. They warn other plants. They feel, move, and eat and breathe. They're a beautiful huge part of the food chain. You can't get hung up on what you're designed to do. I'm designed to eat plants. And so I do. I love them. But I also eat them and kill them all the same.

It's all very emotional and not at all logical. Most vegans won't even eat animals that are scientifically proven to not feel pain (making some plants more intelligent and advanced than them) or have nerves capable of it. .. no brain. .. still won't eat it. Because animals. Deer are cute, but reality? They're forest rats. Truly. They're easily overpopulated and need culling to keep the population down. People think they're super cute but that doesn't mean they deserve to live more than anything else. Vegans* somehow think we aren't made for both. We are. Cats aren't. They'll get sick not eating meat. Dogs are. They can eat both. We can too.even if you only choose one.

I have a ton of things I can feel for. Eating meat isn't even on my list. No more than eating plants.

* writing this post late and tired, I should clarify. There are a section (do I really have to stick the typc disclaimer Not All in there? .... I do I guess. ) of vegetarians and vegans that think our bodies are not physically designed to digest meat. Even though we have all the traits of omnivores, can survive on both, and have evolutionary obvious signs of not dying from one thing or the other. Whether you think it's the best thing for your body or not, it drives me crazy that people mistake opinions on health with what our bodies are designed to handle.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I always find this to be an interesting philosophical perspective. Some human beings are also higher on the food chain than other human beings. And if we are animals, is there really anything inherently evil in eating other humans? Of course, this answer depends on the nature of morality itself. If it truly exists then why don't people unanimously agree on the parameters of morality? And even if we did, it would be a logical fallacy in and of itself: Argumentum ad populum. Yet we still demonize cannibals and psychopaths, do we not?

I can sum this up with saying I disagree with some humans being higher up on the food chain. What does that mean? If a cannibal kills and eats someone, they get inprisoned and in some states the death penalty. So who is higher up on the food chain? The cannibal/psychopath or the ones who catch and punish them?

Also, pychopaths kill for sadistic enjoyment. There is no utilitarian purpose behind it. So that is different.

Anyway, cannibals eat a non-preferred food source. If someone eats their horse I'm pretty sure in the US, this wouldn't be met with acceptance either. Yet, in Italy they eat horse.

Morality is tied to culture. My answer to your question is: Their isn't a single standard for morality.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

It's a joke

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Yeah, but doesn't that inconsistency bother you? I mean, I'm the same way, but I feel like a hypocrite for selectively placing higher value on certain animals; not just my pets, but dogs and cats in general. I saw a video of dogs being slaughtered in some eastern country and I've been scarred for life.

Yet I firmly support the murder of every spider I see.

I don't feel hypocritical. The "inconsistencies" make sense to me. I won't eat dogs or cats because culturally that isn't a food source in my culture.

If you feel hypocritical, or a dissonance, then choose to be vegan or vegetarian. I don't know what else to say.

I get that. Treating animals more humanely is a step in the right direction. Still, it kinda seems like it's more to make non-vegans feel better about the fact that we're killing other living beings. "Well...at least they were happy BEFORE we murdered them."

It comes down to respect, cleanliness and health of the animal. I don't want to eat a sick or mistreated animal, for obvious reasons.

Just because something is giving up their life doesn't mean their lives are meaningless. Quite the opposite.