[Type 5] Enneagram 5: We have stories

[Oaky]

We were small children and one day we felt doubt in something because we might have been told we were incorrect. We might have made a huge mistake in our overconfident belief of something and were shamed when proven incorrect. It might be many things but they all fall down to the insecurity we have of what we initially took to a certain understanding. This is often how we develop early in life.

When we become insecure in our understanding of events we feel skeptical in even our own interpretation of events. And because we are skeptical of our own interpretation we can naturally become skeptical of others' interpretation of events too. We want to know more, and understand the things we determine importance in in the present moment in time.

With practice we can learn to lower the rather abnormal levels of skepticism and cynicism we are used to having.

What are your enneagram 5 stories?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

A really difficult thing for me is to figuring out the truth of a situation when I have incomplete data, and it will not be possible for me to have complete data. Sometimes I have to output some information, and see how others respond to it to gather more data. This might look rather bizarre on the surface, but it's useful for gaining information.

A definite warning bell for me is if someone gets defensive and acts offended or evasive when I ask what should be an innocuous question. 9 times out of 10, it means they are hiding something.

 

[Duffy]

A really difficult thing for me is to figuring out the truth of a situation when I have incomplete data, and it will not be possible for me to have complete data. Sometimes I have to output some information, and see how others respond to it to gather more data. This might look rather bizarre on the surface, but it's useful for gaining information.

A definite warning bell for me is if someone gets defensive and acts offended or evasive when I ask what should be an innocuous question. 9 times out of 10, it means they are hiding something.

I know two people in my life that does this to me. Sometimes a spade is a spade. It would get to the point where I'd lie or agree about whatever it is so they would just leave me alone.

 

[Mademoiselle]

Back then, many grown up people thought I didn't know anything because I was a kid, that's when they couldn't understand what I knew even if they studied it for another decay.

I used to think about how the door works, when my friends were playing with their barbie dolls, I used to recognize adults ture intentions without fully understanding their words when talking to mum.
Like that lady was feeling jealous when she was telling my mother's dress isn't fitting her age, when she had her nails painted in scarlet, she had wrinkles when my mum was young, and much more beautiful.

I knew it when my grandmother never loved my father like she loved her eldest son. I knew I could never ask about that.
I remember when I was confused at adult people's stupid mistakes, ..
Until I realised I started doing some of them, I was more moral as a kid.

 

[margo505]

A really difficult thing for me is to figuring out the truth of a situation when I have incomplete data, and it will not be possible for me to have complete data. Sometimes I have to output some information, and see how others respond to it to gather more data. This might look rather bizarre on the surface, but it's useful for gaining information.

A definite warning bell for me is if someone gets defensive and acts offended or evasive when I ask what should be an innocuous question. 9 times out of 10, it means they are hiding something.

i have this problem too, especially the part i put in bold. do you think this is a five quality, the desire to just be free to ask questions safely? it seems like it could be. looking deep into it, the whole deal can come from the detatchment we have that others dont. we ask questions for pure knowing, and preparence and learning, people hear the questions and hear the "accusations", the "whining", the "fear".

this is seriously one of my biggest issues, especially with my mother, who gets defensive as all hell everytime i ask her anything.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

i have this problem too, especially the part i put in bold. do you think this is a five quality, the desire to just be free to ask questions safely? it seems like it could be. looking deep into it, the whole deal can come from the detatchment we have that others dont. we ask questions for pure knowing, and preparence and learning, people hear the questions and hear the "accusations", the "whining", the "fear".

this is seriously one of my biggest issues, especially with my mother, who gets defensive as all hell everytime i ask her anything.

I think it is a five quality. I get into all kinds of trouble because I ask questions.

 

[Virtual ghost]

i have this problem too, especially the part i put in bold. do you think this is a five quality, the desire to just be free to ask questions safely? it seems like it could be. looking deep into it, the whole deal can come from the detatchment we have that others dont. we ask questions for pure knowing, and preparence and learning.

I would say it is.

Fives always want to know what is really going on and social norms, legalized secrets and sense of shame are constantly preventing that we get what we really want.

 

[Duffy]

i have this problem too, especially the part i put in bold. do you think this is a five quality, the desire to just be free to ask questions safely? it seems like it could be. looking deep into it, the whole deal can come from the detatchment we have that others dont. we ask questions for pure knowing, and preparence and learning, people hear the questions and hear the "accusations", the "whining", the "fear".

this is seriously one of my biggest issues, especially with my mother, who gets defensive as all hell everytime i ask her anything.

Questioning and defensive are two sides of the same coin. Sounds 6ish to me. I grew up with several 6s that did this. I'd say if you're a 5, then it's probably your wing 6.

 

[margo505]

Questioning and defensive are two sides of the same coin. Sounds 6ish to me. I grew up with several 6s that did this. I'd say if you're a 5, then it's probably your wing 6.

i don't understand, are you saying that because someone questions, they are also defensive?

i can be defensive at times if i feel like someones attacking or pressuring me, but because i know the need to question freely, im not defensive with questions. unless i KNOW that the person is coming from a place of attacking me, and not curiousity.

 

[Duffy]

i don't understand, are you saying that because someone questions, they are also defensive?

i can be defensive at times if i feel like someones attacking or pressuring me, but because i know the need to question freely, im not defensive with questions. unless i KNOW that the person is coming from a place of attacking me, and not curiousity.

I'm saying it's possibly a symptom of a greater whole, a fixation, which means it shares a single source. Type 6 desire certainty and a need to "know" as well. I've read that it's driven by a desire for security, existence being unreliable and all. Therefore, the more you "know," the more prepared you are for anything that threatens to shake this security.

For the record, I thought I had a 5w6 fix for similar reasons > compulsive questioning . Now I'm thinking I may have a 6w5 fix instead, or it could be a result of my environment > I was raised by 5 & 6-ish people.

 

[margo505]

I'm saying it's possibly a symptom of a greater whole, a fixation, which means it shares a single source. Type 6 desire certainty and a need to "know" as well. I've read that it's driven by a desire for security, existence being unreliable and all. Therefore, the more you "know," the more prepared you are for anything that threatens to shake this security.

For the record, I thought I had a 5w6 fix for similar reasons > compulsive questioning . Now I'm thinking I may have a 6w5 fix instead, or it could be a result of my environment > I was raised by 5 & 6-ish people.

ok, i see. what would you call compulsive questioning? i question things all the time, but im a 5w4. maybe for you it feels more security oriented?

 

[Duffy]

ok, i see. what would you call compulsive questioning? i question things all the time, but im a 5w4. maybe for you it feels more security oriented?

Compulsive questioning is compulsive questioning, nothing more to it. Not everyone does that. I don't think the security aspect of it is suppose to be conscious, which is why I'm not entirely sure. I don't think I question to "know" or prepare for threats like the core 6s I know would do. I'm not a child, I don't question for the sake of questioning, which is the impression I sometimes get from 5s. At least consciously, I question because I desire truth and critical thinking, no sugar coating. Of course, that takes me down the inevitable path of what truth actually means and why it is important. I also think I engage in self inquiry more than outward inquiry. I might talk at length about myself (not here, but elsewhere), and acknowledge some aspect of myself, but then I'd spiral into the implication of that aspect. I suspect it's a 4w5 thing. I don't think 5s are as concerned with identity.

 

[Coriolis]

With practice we can learn to lower the rather abnormal levels of skepticism and cynicism we are used to having.

Why should we want to do that? Skepticism and cynicism make an outstanding BS detector, and can be quite valuable especially in certain occupations.

i have this problem too, especially the part i put in bold. do you think this is a five quality, the desire to just be free to ask questions safely? it seems like it could be. looking deep into it, the whole deal can come from the detatchment we have that others dont. we ask questions for pure knowing, and preparence and learning, people hear the questions and hear the "accusations", the "whining", the "fear".

this is seriously one of my biggest issues, especially with my mother, who gets defensive as all hell everytime i ask her anything.

I wish people would not so often take those questions personally. As you write, we are not insulting or criticising, we really do just want to understand.

 

[estorm]

A lifelong tendency of being curious has led me in many interesting directions and on adventures I would never have guessed I would go on. One topic or skill leads to another, and before I know it I am in new territory. I may be lucky that my 6 wing makes me more social rather than fearful (though that's there too), so curiosity wins over anxiety often enough.

And now I stand with a pile of experiences, making me what I call a "deep generalist", which is not what I'd have predicted when I was younger. Or what I think 5's are often described as.

I am sure it's been confusing to others how I got where I am or why I ventured into the different fields I have. But I have to say I'm happy I did.

What do you love about being a 5, your special version of 5?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

What do you love about being a 5, your special version of 5?

I feel like it gives me an advantage over the 5s that never bothered to venture out of their comfort zone and take a step into larger world. I can see things that they miss. I might not have certain specialized skills, but I have other skills.

People who try and fit themselves into conforming to a narrow identity do themselves a disservice.

 

[Oaky]

Why should we want to do that? Skepticism and cynicism make an outstanding BS detector, and can be quite valuable especially in certain occupations.

Abnormal levels of skepticism and cynicism plays us more into delusions and paranoia than otherwise. It can be an unnecessary suffering.
So using cynicism and skepticism as an automated reaction over a tool used in good wisdom can be counterproductive in both understanding and progression of events surrounding the matter. I emphasise abnormality here. I always think using the more relevant mental tools we use in dealing with matters allows for both greater clarity and less stalling. Unwitting Gullibility and Delusional Paranoia are often two outcomes of the extremes of both sides because of overuse/misuse of cynicism and skepticism, or not using it at all.

 

[great_bay]

I am a 4w5 and a 5w4. I can't image myself without being a 5.

 

[draon9]

Back then, many grown up people thought I didn't know anything because I was a kid, that's when they couldn't understand what I knew even if they studied it for another decay.

I used to think about how the door works, when my friends were playing with their barbie dolls, I used to recognize adults ture intentions without fully understanding their words when talking to mum.
Like that lady was feeling jealous when she was telling my mother's dress isn't fitting her age, when she had her nails painted in scarlet, she had wrinkles when my mum was young, and much more beautiful.

I knew it when my grandmother never loved my father like she loved her eldest son. I knew I could never ask about that.
I remember when I was confused at adult people's stupid mistakes, ..
Until I realised I started doing some of them, I was more moral as a kid.

You sound very intense

 

[Mademoiselle]

You sound very intense

I can be impulsive sometimes, well I'm always like that, I only make sure I'm wearing my belt while driving fast.

 

[draon9]

It sounds like there are some of fighters in your family