Things you're surprised to notice about each type

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I find this true also.

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The descriptions don't go into how much of a BULLY 2s can be. The "helper" title seems all wrong (but I suppose it is meant to appeal to their ego; I don't know many who actually AREE helpful, or not in any way that is not self-serving and meant to indebt others to them). Also, lots of e2s (especially the ESFP 2w3 sx/sp and sp/sx) are the "seductive" 2s who promise a lot and put out some exciting, sexy image and then once they have someone they fall apart and need to be babied, or they get bored and move onto the next conquest. They are insatiable for love, affection & admiration, and it's not always through "helping" that they get it. They just FEEL that they have a lot to offer, but they don't always in actuality OFFER anything, and they can convince others of what they FEEL and never even deliver.

4 disintegrates to unhealthy 2, interestingly enough. I've definitely observed this in some Enneagram 4s I've known. I wouldn't call them bullies when they do this, though.

 

[Elfboy]

I find this true also.
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The descriptions don't go into how much of a BULLY 2s can be. The "helper" title seems all wrong (but I suppose it is meant to appeal to their ego; I don't know many who actually AREE helpful, or not in any way that is not self-serving and meant to indebt others to them). Also, lots of e2s (especially the ESFP 2w3 sx/sp and sp/sx) are the "seductive" 2s who promise a lot and put out some exciting, sexy image and then once they have someone they fall apart and need to be babied, or they get bored and move onto the next conquest. They are insatiable for love, affection & admiration, and it's not always through "helping" that they get it. They just FEEL that they have a lot to offer, but they don't always in actuality OFFER anything, and they can convince others of what they FEEL and never even deliver.

I was just about to post something about this. I think a lot of people mistype these 2s as cp6 (the difference is, unlike 6s, 2s have a relatively weak connection to the head center). on the positive side, they're definitely a lot more assertive and willful than people give them credit for (though, paradoxically, their assertiveness is often covert); on the negative side, they're very much prone to "antics" and can throw a shitstorm when they don't get their way.

 

[TaylorS]

I couldn't agree more. It always bugs me when the need to feel unique card is emphasized as what fours are all about. I think it's why there are so many people who mistype as four or want to be four. But what I think it is is that non-fours interpret the four drive for authenticity as this need to be different. That's not it at all, it's just this need to be true to the self. I also think it's why fours are so driven to fully understand themselves, because if they don't fully understand themselves, what is the self that they are supposed to be true to?

It's kind of like what @Misty said, you're never going to create something wholly original. But you can take bits of pieces from the people you admire and create something that is true to you. I can't think of a single four artist, writer, musician who didn't copy the style of someone they admired when starting out but eventually that style copying led to something different.

IMO the cult of originality seems to be a particularly modern Western neurosis. Romans were not whining about Virgil ripping off Homer, for example. While the movie snobs in our time were bashing James Cameron for using the "Fern Gully" type narrative in "Avatar".

 

[TaylorS]

I don't know if I agree with this. It seems to me- at least where counterphobic 6 is concerned- that e6s block information they don't like about themselves by seeing the characteristics they don't want to own in other people instead. All people do this, but counterphobic 6s do this with an unparalleled panache. It's very unnerving to deal with an e6 who is on some self-righteous witch-hunt to call people out on things left and right; it's like they're trying to exorcise demons in other people- but the more they do it, the more they keep seeing even more demons all over the place (which will continue to be the case until they get rid of the demons in their own head). I very strongly associate this way of blocking information about oneself- paired with some compulsion to 'point it out' about others- as being e6.

What you wrote may apply to phobic e6 though, to some extent. (eta: It seems like phobic e6 goes through something similar- but instead of 'pointing it out', they freeze like a deer in headlights and don't know what to believe? Not sure.)

Fuck, I'm guilty of this.

 

[TaylorS]

Hmm. As a CP6 I can see this but I'm not sure you have the CP6's motivation down correctly. Definitely from a observer of CP6 behavior, which is interesting in its own right.

Somewhere along their "crusade" it turns personal. This is where the CP6 goes off the rails. Best intentions turn awry and so forth. CP6 isn't normally going after someone because of self-righteousness. Quite the opposite. CP6's rarely feel better than anyone else. Which is why we are extremely egalitarian.

How it can look like self-righteousness (which it can) is in us "sticking up" for what we see as a breakdown of fairness. Meaning someone is cheating the system or inversely taking advantage of others. It doesn't matter to the CP6 whether this is purposeful or incidental fallout - until the CP6 investigates further. Then, if the CP6 realizes said person is doing this purposefully - they will zero in and try to oust that person of their credibility.

You won't be able to change their minds about said person and witch-hunting will commence and in their attempt to destroy said person, their behavior can get nasty because once we see someone "playing dirty" we do the same. Fair is fair. To outsiders, this can look hypocritical and self-righteous, not to mention completely contradictory to their normal behavior. The motivation for said behavior is in protecting someone/something sacred to the CP6. I just wanted to clarify.

Thats not to say assumption made by observation by the CP6 is correct. If it isn't, it causes disaster for everyone including the CP6. We can get hung with our own noose. It happens. CP6's would do well to remember the big picture and not get too bogged down with seek-and-destroy type behavior.

Good example of this: Chris Hitchens going after Mother Theresa.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

I have come to a surprising realization about Type 1, that we aren't always the hard working perfectionist that is always striving for more responsibilities and opportunities for self-improvement. In terms of my own conditioning, I see perfection as being innate without undergoing much hard-work, leading me to see various things that hard working 1s might laud such as studying in school as "for the mentally imperfect", leaving me to not see my self-criticism as an attack on how I'm not working hard enough, but an attack on how I am not innately perfect, that I am flawed, corrupt, and even broken instead of the usual self-criticisms one might expect of acting lazy, selfish, etc. Honestly, while this breed of 1s that I represent are ultimately more self-accepting of themselves due to a lack of constantly strenuous self-improvement, when the self-criticism does hit, it hits harder, lamenting on how we are inherently broken beyond repair, that we stand alone to wallow in our flaws.

 

[TaylorS]

All art is either plagiarism or a revolution.


Agreed--my sister self-types as a social 4, but when she joined the emo movement, I had to question this. She makes fun of hipsters, though.


I once read a 4 description which included the condescending advice that, "you don't need to always try to showcase your uniqueness. Try to peg your identity less on this" or something to that effect. Clearly, this author did not understand type 4.

I can't speak for the others, but I personally can't help it. It may seem so to others, but no "showcasing" is intended--I just kind of do the things I like. Even in the instances where I need to be "normal", it somehow backfires on me, hence me constantly wondering what's "wrong" with me and why I'm so messed up.

Being thought of as "unique" can be a point of pride for me, but also a wedge between myself and humanity. And it's really only a consequence of my inability to "sell-out" rather than anything I have specifically striven for. In my mind, it's all just obvious and normal.





GUYS. SO much agreement.

Now me, I'm as much of a slob as the 9s mentioned here (lovely sp-last)...but I've noticed that 9s are amongst the types most likely to decry others' selfishness, yet can be some of the most startlingly selfish people on the enneagram.

There's a reluctance to take moral responsibility (like reporting an affair to a questioning spouse) lest it disturb inner peace or upset others. It's like, Ummm...you gonna deal with this or let it blow up on the rest of us??" (You know what the answer is).

My parents are both 9s, and the times I've needed them most, they suddenly go absent. They feel that their presence doesn't "really matter" and they'd sooner not bother. Even when you ask them. With 9s, there's a major undertone of "not my problem". And, you can't even make them face their crimes.

I don't say that to bash 9s, but it's the legitimate downside of a psychological base designed to maintain inner equilibrium. All is sacrificed to the God of Peace.

Hence the 9 businessperson or national leader who does horrible things and is yet able to sleep at night.

 

[á´…eparted]

I have come to a surprising realization about Type 1, that we aren't always the hard working perfectionist that is always striving for more responsibilities and opportunities for self-improvement. In terms of my own conditioning, I see perfection as being innate without undergoing much hard-work, leading me to see various things that hard working 1s might laud such as studying in school as "for the mentally imperfect", leaving me to not see my self-criticism as an attack on how I'm not working hard enough, but an attack on how I am not innately perfect, that I am flawed, corrupt, and even broken instead of the usual self-criticisms one might expect of acting lazy, selfish, etc. Honestly, while this breed of 1s that I represent are ultimately more self-accepting of themselves due to a lack of constantly strenuous self-improvement, when the self-criticism does hit, it hits harder, lamenting on how we are inherently broken beyond repair, that we stand alone to wallow in our flaws.

This is extremely true, in particular what I bolded. I think this is a big reason why some might not type themselves as a one. They think ones try so hard to be perfect, that they might appear to be so. It's sort of makes 1's to appear super-human, when they totally aren't. Or at minimum, be well structured and put together. That's not the case. Just because someone is perfectionistic, does not equate to them being good at that. That said, it very often is the case that being "good" at it is in place, largely because I'd imagine a 1 that isn't would be under stress all the time and be a complete fucking trainwreck.

But yes, a core feature of 1 is feeling pressured for this idealized vision of "perfection", even if one sees that it is impossible to be reached. Doesn't mean they're always doing somethings towards that either. It's just something that's often felt.

 

[LadyLazarus]

That 5's possess actual bodies, I thought they looked like this before:

 

[Octavarium]

I have come to a surprising realization about Type 1, that we aren't always the hard working perfectionist that is always striving for more responsibilities and opportunities for self-improvement. In terms of my own conditioning, I see perfection as being innate without undergoing much hard-work, leading me to see various things that hard working 1s might laud such as studying in school as "for the mentally imperfect", leaving me to not see my self-criticism as an attack on how I'm not working hard enough, but an attack on how I am not innately perfect, that I am flawed, corrupt, and even broken instead of the usual self-criticisms one might expect of acting lazy, selfish, etc. Honestly, while this breed of 1s that I represent are ultimately more self-accepting of themselves due to a lack of constantly strenuous self-improvement, when the self-criticism does hit, it hits harder, lamenting on how we are inherently broken beyond repair, that we stand alone to wallow in our flaws.

Interesting points. I totally agree with you and [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] that 1s aren't always people who work really hard all the time, and some 1s are more reformers than perfectionists, and I'll get back to that. But that description honestly seemed more 4 than 1 to me. "broken beyond repair" and "we stand alone to wallow in our flaws" seem especially 4-ish. Both 1s and 4s are very aware of their flaws, have ideals they want to live up to and feel frustrated with themselves for not meeting them. I think one of the biggest differences is that 1s want to fix their flaws whereas 4s are more ambivalent about them, sometimes feeling that they are broken and defective and wanting to take on what they see as the positive qualities of others, but also seeing their flaws/differences as a source of pride, and something that makes them who they are, so that fixing them would take away a vital part of their identity.

On the other hand, I can see what you mean in that a 1 might feel that if they're struggling with, E.G. studying, that reflects badly on their intellectual ability and they shouldn't find it so difficult, but I'd assume most 1s would see that as something that needs to be improved. The Enneagram is complicated; there's the line of dis/integration between 1 and 4, so there are people who are one of those types who are strongly influenced by the other. There are Sp 4s, who can look like 1s, and Sx 1s have more of an orientation towards getting what they want. There's also the 9 wing's focus on being rather than doing, so maybe for some people that translates into being perfect rather than doing things to make themselves perfect. So I'm not necessarily saying you're mistyped as there could be an explanation in all that complication, but I don't understand how you can be a 1 who doesn't believe you can improve upon whatever you perceive as your flaws. Again, I'm not saying 1s are constantly working towards self-improvement, because I think there are actually things about being a 1 that can get in the way of that goal, but I'll get into that in another post later. Also, with the 4 stress point, I do think 1s can wallow in their flaws sometimes, although not as much as actual 4s. But "broken beyond repair" sounds like a really hopeless place for a 1.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

Interesting points. I totally agree with you and [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] that 1s aren't always people who work really hard all the time, and some 1s are more reformers than perfectionists, and I'll get back to that. But that description honestly seemed more 4 than 1 to me. "broken beyond repair" and "we stand alone to wallow in our flaws" seem especially 4-ish. Both 1s and 4s are very aware of their flaws, have ideals they want to live up to and feel frustrated with themselves for not meeting them. I think one of the biggest differences is that 1s want to fix their flaws whereas 4s are more ambivalent about them, sometimes feeling that they are broken and defective and wanting to take on what they see as the positive qualities of others, but also seeing their flaws/differences as a source of pride, and something that makes them who they are, so that fixing them would take away a vital part of their identity.

On the other hand, I can see what you mean in that a 1 might feel that if they're struggling with, E.G. studying, that reflects badly on their intellectual ability and they shouldn't find it so difficult, but I'd assume most 1s would see that as something that needs to be improved. The Enneagram is complicated; there's the line of dis/integration between 1 and 4, so there are people who are one of those types who are strongly influenced by the other. There are Sp 4s, who can look like 1s, and Sx 1s have more of an orientation towards getting what they want. There's also the 9 wing's focus on being rather than doing, so maybe for some people that translates into being perfect rather than doing things to make themselves perfect. So I'm not necessarily saying you're mistyped as there could be an explanation in all that complication, but I don't understand how you can be a 1 who doesn't believe you can improve upon whatever you perceive as your flaws. Again, I'm not saying 1s are constantly working towards self-improvement, because I think there are actually things about being a 1 that can get in the way of that goal, but I'll get into that in another post later. Also, with the 4 stress point, I do think 1s can wallow in their flaws sometimes, although not as much as actual 4s. But "broken beyond repair" sounds like a really hopeless place for a 1.

Interesting about type 4 (I've actually typed as it before), I am inclined to believe that the reason I do not constantly work toward self-improvement might be due to the fact that what usually puts me down is absolute impossibility (such as the failure of an action that cannot be repeated). Though, in a 4-ish kind of way, I see being average as being a failure, trapped within the herds of the masses that lessen the probability of being remembered after I am gone.

Part of the confusion might be the disintegration/integration point surrounding Type 1 and Type 4, and I have recently read this one particular "health-level" provided by the Enneagram Institute regarding type 4 and found it to be quite revealing and enlightening.

Level 3: Highly personal, individualistic, "true to self." Self-revealing, emotionally honest, humane. Ironic view of self and life: can be serious and funny, vulnerable and emotionally strong.

 

[HBIC]

stolen from PerC
I'll start with a few

male 2s
often much more aggressive than they are painted in most literature. Sexual 2w3s often look like a combination of 3w2 and 8w7. the way you can tell them apart is
1) they're much more emotional than either a 3 or an 8. they're also much more prone to drama and (in some cases) excessive bravado (think Naruto or Theon Greyjoy)
2) they disintegrate to 8, not 9 and certainly not 5.
3) less apathetic and sociopathic than an 8

2s in general
much more power seeking than they appear on the surface. behind that 9-ish facade of false humility is a confident, socially adept string puller who is an expert at winning people over to his/her side.

3s
they really don't care as much about what people think about them as descriptions seem to suggest. 3s want respect for their accomplishments. as far as being liked and accepted, they really don't care as much, and most would laugh at the idea of bending over backwards to win someone else's acceptance. 3w2s care a little more about this because of their 2 wing, but mostly their charm and seduction are used as tactics for personal advancement rather than their primary objective,

Social 7s
For the longest time it baffled me why 7s are said to mistype at 2...then I read about the Social 7. Social 7s are what most people think of when they think of 7. they're bright, bubbly, cheerful, entertaining and typically enjoy large social events. however, when compared to Self Preservation, Sexual 7s and the core neurosis of 7, Social 7s are really the anti 7 of the bunch. Naranjo refers to Social 7s as anti gluttony and Maitri gives them the theme of Sacrifice.

head center types in general
overall, it is not gut types, but head types who are the most aggressive triad. with the exception of 8w7, gut types spend most of their time repressing their anger in various ways. typically, they let the little things slide and just forget about it. on the other hand, head types will fly into a mental frenzy of "what am I going to do about this?". they might not beat you down with a club, but 6s and 5s are often far more socially vicious than their head center counterparts and more willing to take the time and energy to plot revenge.

Social Instinct
when I first read about the social instinct, it made me think of tribal gatherings, bars full of drunken sports fans and high school cliques, but I've come to realize that the Social instinct is generally the most intellectual of the instincts, possessing and almost Ni-ish means of knowing what's going on and how everything and everyone are interconnected (which I'm increasingly finding is a very useful ability that I lack completely). contrary to my previous opinions, So doms are also among the most socially critical types and can typically tell you all manner of things they'd like to see changed in their society or the world at large.

All of this, specially the bolded part. Ennnegram descriptions need a serious makeover.

Exactly. There is nothing original about being a hipster, goth, emo, etc. so I don't get why that's so heavily associated with 4.

Precisely.

Considering how fives fear being useless, helpless and incapable, when they finally attach in relationships, they can be quite clingy and needy.

I don't experience this, but I know other 4's who do.

Mine is an INFP, also my roommate, I think probably an so variant.

She is constantly late, and doesn't bother to tell you when she is going to arrive an hour late to something. She also talks and giggles during the most inappropriate times during movies and gets mad if you ask her to stop. And she can be insanely loud when other people in our house are trying to sleep.

She leaves messes everywhere. Like slightly gross messes, not just clutter. But essentially refuses to help my other roommates and I with the cleaning because "she doesn't care if it's clean so she shouldn't have to help."

My mom's a 9 and she's guilty of this. Drives me insane.

I am not surprised by this. I can't expect any 4 would be.... Contrivance is part of being an image type.

For the 4, it's a matter of striving to meet an idealized self, and always falling short (or feeling so). 4s also "introject", which means many things but one is that we internalize concepts and use them as symbols of our identity (we also introject others' behaviors as commentary on our own significance, hence being too sensitive & absorbed). Hence, adopting style we may associate with a quality we see our fantasy self as possessing (which we see as our true selves or our potential to become).

That being said, I'm always surprised to find out how sensitive type 3's are. They usually come across as not giving a shit, but once you get past the veneer and they masks slip...

 

[Evo]

These are just things people have either told me, or I've noticed.

Some things might be obvious, but I'm shocked at how true to type people can be.

1's - When they explode, they explode.
2's - It pains them to not stack the dishes at the end of their table (to help the waitress) when they're eating out (even at Denny's)
3's - I think they can take some abuse, just to accomplish goals, but only for so long. They're stronger than they think.
4's - Holy fuck. They have way more emotions than I'll ever have. Even in my dreams. It seems bottomless.
5's - Really cynical.
6's - Contradictions are endless. Endless!! But not.
7's - Can use pain as a distraction from pain. And when it hits them it, it feels like the world has stopped. (Stole some of Starry's words here....but have experienced this myself. I'm constantly shocked by what 7 feels like.)
8's - Can't take no for an answer. Really.
9's - They like to resist fear. Like shit don't matter. It aint nothin but a G thang. Seriously (I don't know how they do it.)

 

[five sounds]

2's - It pains them to not stack the dishes at the end of their table (to help the waitress) when they're eating out (even at Denny's)

i like *must* do this every time i go out to eat. i partially blame it on being a server before, but it's an absolute compulsion. just wanna help em out, haha!

7's - Can use pain as a distraction from pain. And when it hits them it, it feels like the world has stopped. (Stole some of Starry's words here....but have experienced this myself. I'm constantly shocked by what 7 feels like.)

yep! i read starry's post too and totally related. also our ability to put a positive spin on that pain. "oh all this pain i'm in, i must really be learning some valuable life lessons."

9's - They like to resist fear. Like shit don't matter. It aint nothin but a G thang. Seriously (I don't know how they do it.)

the power of indifference!

 

[garbage]

3s
they really don't care as much about what people think about them as descriptions seem to suggest. 3s want respect for their accomplishments. as far as being liked and accepted, they really don't care as much, and most would laugh at the idea of bending over backwards to win someone else's acceptance. 3w2s care a little more about this because of their 2 wing, but mostly their charm and seduction are used as tactics for personal advancement rather than their primary objective,

Yeah, all of this. Why care about pleasing everyone on the planet? It's wholly impossible, anyway. Best to just do the best you can.

.. .... all the time. .. with everything. . ... ever.

Yeah, the neurosis manifests more as

than as e.g. '3 sp want to be seen as having enough material wealth.' or '3 sx want to be seen as attractive.' What bullshit.

 

[Azure Flame]

ENFJ and ENTJ 6s are surprisingly calm and controlled in appearance than other types, I used to think they were 3s or 8s.

estp 7s are not adhd like most Ne 7s. I find they tend to be much more focussed as part of Se.

 

[Showbread]

These are just things people have either told me, or I've noticed.

Some things might be obvious, but I'm shocked at how true to type people can be.

1's - When they explode, they explode.
2's - It pains them to not stack the dishes at the end of their table (to help the waitress) when they're eating out (even at Denny's)
3's - I think they can take some abuse, just to accomplish goals, but only for so long. They're stronger than they think.
4's - Holy fuck. They have way more emotions than I'll ever have. Even in my dreams. It seems bottomless.
5's - Really cynical.
6's - Contradictions are endless. Endless!! But not.
7's - Can use pain as a distraction from pain. And when it hits them it, it feels like the world has stopped. (Stole some of Starry's words here....but have experienced this myself. I'm constantly shocked by what 7 feels like.)
8's - Can't take no for an answer. Really.
9's - They like to resist fear. Like shit don't matter. It aint nothin but a G thang. Seriously (I don't know how they do it.)

YES. It's legitimately a compulsion.

 

[Evo]

YES. It's legitimately a compulsion.

I know, my friend that's a 2 said that her eye literally started twitching when she held back the urge to help her waitress one time. I found that to be so endearing. I love that about 2's.

 

[TaylorS]

2's - It pains them to not stack the dishes at the end of their table (to help the waitress) when they're eating out (even at Denny's)

OMG, this sounds exactly like me. I always stack the plates, wipe the crumbs off the table, and move all the plates and glasses to the corner of the table. Being a server is a hard job with shit pay and there are a lot of assholes who don't given them a big enough tip.

Edit: Today I learned that this is a good indicator for having a 2-fix, LMAO!

 

[infinite]

2's - It pains them to not stack the dishes at the end of their table (to help the waitress) when they're eating out (even at Denny's)

Lol.. I don't do that, I think to myself hey they can do the work for the load of money I've paid.

3's - I think they can take some abuse, just to accomplish goals, but only for so long. They're stronger than they think.

What kind of abuse do you mean here?

5's - Really cynical.

I relate...

8's - Can't take no for an answer. Really.

Haha goddamnit... Though, I can actually take "no" if it's explained.