Shadow Type

[yeghor]

Opposing Personality: Beebe coined this term for the archetypal energy around the fifth function in his model. This is the same mental function (S, N, T, or F) as the dominant but with the opposite attitude, extraverted or introverted. Jung said that such opposite-attitude functions, like Ti and Te, are “incessantly at war.” Beebe says that the Opposing Personality archetype represents an entire personality hiding in our shadow that sometimes pushes back against the conventional wisdom of the conscious personality.

Yesterday something happened at work that made me think of the opposing personality...A coworker asked me to check something on the net on my phone... I gave my phone to him and he checked it himself... After a while into the conversation he asked me (kindly) to check something else once more (his phone wasn't with him at the time)...

A voice inside me said "why doesn't he go get his own phone and check it on his own phone?"... I got displeased with the attitude in that he wasn't asking for permission to use my phone but was rather asking me to check something on my phone for him...which I guess subconsciously felt to me as if there was some kind of unevenness in the playing field...

I wanted to tell him "(why don't you) go get your on phone to check it..." but I instinctively knew that that'd create a conflict (read: threat) for me...so I refrained doing that but told him that I had to return to my desk...

I guess the reaction from internal voice was coming from my opposing personality (i.e. ENFP, which I also equate with the shadow in the Jungian sense) but my INFJ persona quickly calculated the odds of a threat to my wellbeing (thru Ni-Fe I guess, which anticipated that my coworker would be displeased with it by seeing it as a challenge of his social status and would try to retaliate) and held me back from voicing out the concerns of my opposing personality....

I immediately felt fearful\anxious of things getting heated\physical even when I declined his request in a less assertive\more diplomatic way...This stems from my lack of faith in my confrontation and phyisical capabilities...

The problem is, if I do not practice giving voice to my opposing personality, I cannot develop it... Furthermore, when I do not voice it out, this time it starts acting out on me internally and berates me for not standing up for myself and my rights...So reclaiming my self-worth seems to lie in giving more voice to my opposing personality (shadow) even when fearful\anxious...Thru this, shadow and persona can perhaps be merged together...

So even though my INFJ persona is aimed at minimising risk of confrontations for me thru Ni-Fe thereby avoiding physical hurt, it's as a result also causing me mental anguish thru not standing up for myself...

So Ni-Fe process not only gives insight into people's character, it also serves as a risk avoidance mechanism by anticipating how an individual may act in any given instance... It allows (or rather compels) INFJs to adept their behaviour to other people's preferences...sometimes against their own interest...so as not to get hurt...

This may result in codependent behaviour... And that reflex is vulnerable to being abused by certain personalities that rely on projecting whatever perspective that suits their own best interests as a means to chart their course in life...

So Ni-Fe is a mechanism to adept INFJs behaviour so as to avoid hostility...and INFJs withdraw from relationships when attempts to adept so as to cease hostilities fail...

So INFJs should use\train Ne-Fi assertiveness more (in friendlier environments prefereably) so as to dismantle that reflex...

 

[yeghor]

Here's another way of putting it I'm putting together to explain the differentiation of functions as attitudes:

The dominant function will take on the dominant attitude. Some of it will “spill over” into the opposite attitude.
The auxiliary will tend to fall into the opposite attitude as well. (This will not be as pronounced as the dominant preference). The inferior will tend to by default become associated with the opposite attitude.

The tertiary will not be as initially, naturally oriented one way or the other, but will happen to be oriented to the dominant attitude by the Puer complex that forms around it.

So type is defined by a dominant function in a particular attitude, and balanced by the opposite attitude and refined by an auxiliary function of the opposite kind of process, and can be classed as opposite in attitude.

Beyond those two, everything else is a reflection, (and likely controlled by the complexes) and does not have to be seen as rigidly fixed in attitude.

This is how I imagined the process...

Edit: corrected photo link...

 

[chubber]

I tried to read up on what the hell an INTP wants out of life.

I got nothin.

My inner most goals reflect:

That I want to have everything run smoothly and efficiently so that I can spend that time that I have now saved, from doing things the more efficient way, doing what I love.

What I would love is to lounge around all day or spend the time I've saved with the ppl that I love (Fi). (Sounds relatively close to an ISFP, if you ask me.)

And also I'd like to dance (Se.)

If my shadow is INTP...I have not met it yet. (And honestly not looking forward to it. It's already a challenge accepting my Fi.)

Also in general my two biggest problems are that:

I don't acknowledge my own internal guidance system as an E6 - which also translates to inferior Fi in MBTI

And as for my 7 wing, I don't take in or absorb experiences as fully as I should - also translates to underdeveloped Se which is my tert.

I just don't know about INTP being my shadow

Have you taken into account that she is developing her inferior function right now and can appreciate the INTP for what it is, I take it the INTP in her life is also developing his inferior Fe.

So tell me what my INFJ shadow in your theory would look like...Im curious to see if I can relate

Well, I did brought this up in your private blog. That it just seems like you flip flop between the modes, you stay ENFP most of the time, but you can appear INFJ for a short while (aloofness kicking in?) I can't help but wonder if that is the reason why you get ENFP on MBTI and IEI-INFp on socionics. But I don't know why yet it appears that why or what you are going through that time. Are you burned out from caring too much and go ambivert/introverted Fe tough love a bit there?

 

[Evo]

Have you taken into account that she is developing her inferior function right now and can appreciate the INTP for what it is, I take it the INTP in her life is also developing his inferior Fe.

I'm not sure what you mean?

 

[chubber]

I'm not sure what you mean?

I mean, that you are at a stage in your life right now developing your tertiary function vs her already developing her Fi. She sees perhaps a more complete picture of the INTP at his stage in his life and you are not there yet. Not undermining you or anything.

[MENTION=10808]andante[/MENTION] still have to go more in-depth to explain what's happening. But I can't help to have a suspicion that her MBTI INTP is maybe ILI-INTp in socionics which could maybe make way of why she likes her mirror relation towards him, which happens to be one of the top 4 recommended relations.

 

[Evo]

I mean, that you are at a stage in your life right now developing your tertiary function vs her already developing her Fi. She sees perhaps a more complete picture of the INTP at his stage in his life and you are not there yet. Not undermining you or anything.

I'm sorry. But I'm lost. This might sound stupid but...

-who is "she" and who is "he" ?

In that post, I was explaining that I don't understand what INTP's want outta lfe. (Cause yeghor was saying that is my shadow type.)

And I pretty much don't relate to INTP's at all...therefore, not really agreeing with yeghor's theory on shadow type.

My "shadow type" (which is redefined below) imo would be ISFP.

I liked how Z redefined shadow type with this:

"technically, the shadow type is your anima/animus, or the two inferior functions - what ur talking about is the 'opposite personality' - I used to use the same terminology, but it is wrong"

So going by that the INTP shadow/opposite personality is the one I don't relate to. (At least I am not aware that I do yet.)

 

[chubber]

I'm sorry. But I'm lost. This might sound stupid but...

-who is "she" and who is "he" ?

She is [MENTION=10808]andante[/MENTION], he is the INTP she has in her life.

In that post, I was explaining that I don't understand what INTP's want outta lfe. (Cause yeghor was saying that is my shadow type.)

Problem is, the word shadow is used interchangeably of which there are at least 3 different kinds of shadow types. He, [MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION], is in this case, mentioning the shadow functions or the inverse attitude of the functions (correct me if I'm wrong here anyone).

And I pretty much don't relate to INTP's at all...therefore, not really agreeing with yeghor's theory on shadow type.

My "shadow type" (which is redefined below) imo would be ISFP.

Yeah because of your definition of shadow type. Instead of Te Ni Se Fi now becomes Fi Se Ni Te. There is a 3rd type as well, which I can't remember and I know [MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION] can tell me the 3 types.

As defined here, the ENTJ's anima is the ISFP. http://typelogic.com/entj.html

Anima fits Dr. Beebe's description of the anima/anumus: each is the other's inferior (4th) function
http://typelogic.com/pairs.html

I liked how Z redefined shadow type with this:

"technically, the shadow type is your anima/animus, or the two inferior functions - what ur talking about is the 'opposite personality' - I used to use the same terminology, but it is wrong"

So going by that the INTP shadow/opposite personality is the one I don't relate to. (At least I am not aware that I do yet.)

I get that, because you weren't searching for it, maybe haven't realised it... yet

 

[Evo]

I get that, because you weren't searching for it, maybe haven't realized it... yet

Ok got it now. Yea I forgot all that context. Thanks for reminding me.

And no, it's not undermining. I have not really figured out where exactly I am developing function-wise.

Also, I don't really have that many interactions with INTP's. If I do, I don't often register high on their scale of ppl to care about...and I think it's cause of Te. They write me off for my highly voiced opinions usually. What I do know, is only from a friend that I have, that's into typology. He talks about how every time he sees his INTP friend, he has to break her walls down. I am not good at breaking walls down, so there is no possible way for me to see who they truly are, and what they really want.

 

[chubber]

Ok got it now. Yea I forgot all that context. Thanks for reminding me.

And no, it's not undermining. I have not really figured out where exactly I am developing function-wise.

Also, I don't really have that many interactions with INTP's. If I do, I don't often register high on their scale of ppl to care about...and I think it's cause of Te. They write me off for my highly voiced opinions usually. What I do know, is only from a friend that I have, that's into typology. He talks about how every time he sees his INTP friend, he has to break her walls down. I am not good at breaking walls down, so there is no possible way for me to see who they truly are, and what they really want.

I think you might have to go through their aux-Ne with your aux-Ni.

 

[Society]

She is @andante, he is the INTP she has in her life.


Problem is, the word shadow is used interchangeably of which there are at least 3 different kinds of shadow types. He, @yeghor, is in this case, mentioning the shadow functions or the inverse attitude of the functions (correct me if I'm wrong here anyone).


Yeah because of your definition of shadow type. Instead of Te Ni Se Fi now becomes Fi Se Ni Te. There is a 3rd type as well, which I can't remember and I know @Mane can tell me the 3 types.

As defined here, the ENTJ's anima is the ISFP. http://typelogic.com/entj.html



I get that, because you weren't searching for it, maybe haven't realised it... yet

hmm?

depending on which version:
same order, opposite orientations (ENTJ -> INTP)
opposite order, same orientation (ENTJ -> ISFP)
opposite orientation, opposite order (ENTJ -> ESFJ)

out of those 3, i see more merit in the last one, on the basis that there is a relationship between functions and behavior (a.k.a. between Je & ExxJ or Pe & ExxP), and under stress people tend to exhibit more extreme versions of their own behavior, a.k.a. more uptight and demanding about external organization (J's) or less capable of getting their shit together (for P's), more withdrawn (for I's) or loose sight of their own internal dialogue (for E's). this to me puts into question the viability of the first two shadow theories - in which you then need to explain why people are using their shadow Pi while exhibiting more extreme behavior that corresponds with Je (for instance).

ofcourse, there is another way to look at this:
MBTI needed a way to account for people's shifting states and still claim to describe a persistent personality, and shadow functions provided the required loophole.
MBTI as a social phenomena and belief developed a fail safe mechanism so it can explain anyone no matter what functions they exhibit..

basically: "jung works in mysterious ways!"

 

[Evo]

hmm?

depending on which version:
same order, opposite orientations (ENTJ -> INTP)
opposite order, same orientation (ENTJ -> ISFP)
opposite orientation, opposite order (ENTJ -> ESFJ)

out of those 3, i see more merit in the last one, on the basis that there is a relationship between functions and behavior (a.k.a. between Je & ExxJ or Pe & ExxP), and under stress people tend tend to exhibit more extreme versions of their own behavior, a.k.a. more uptight and demanding about external organization (J's) or less capable of getting their shit together (for P's), more withdrawn (for I's) or loose sight of their own internal dialogue (for E's). this to me puts into question the viability of the first two shadow theories - in which you then need to explain why people are using their shadow Pi while exhibiting more extreme behavior that corresponds with Je (for instance).

ofcourse, there is another way to look at this:
MBTI needed a way to account for people's shifting states and still claim to describe a persistent personality, and shadow functions provided the required loophole. the more we try to account for, the more closer we'd be getting to the point of claiming MBTI works in mysterious ways.

I think the list you have made is in order from least applicable at the top to most at the bottom. I like that list.


The only things is the last one reminds me a bit of Lenore. Not sure I agree with that theory...

 

[Society]

I think the list you have made is in order from least applicable at the top to most at the bottom. I like that list.


The only things is the last one reminds me a bit of Lenore. Not sure I agree with that theory...

i agree, the choice between the 2nd one and the 3rd one depends entirely on your willingness to stomach the 8 functions theory. if normal MBTI assumes that functions come in pairs (Te with Fi, Fe with Ti, etc), which you could arguably test, the 8 function theory puts MBTI on a pedestal beyond fallibility, and instead of predicting which functions you'll exhibit, it makes potentially wrong claims about what that means to your mental health, which is risky grounds (if i am not mistaken Scientology does something similar).

 

[WALMART]

The shadow is diametrically opposed to the domineering facet of personality

Intuition suppresses sense, thought suppresses feeling, and vice versa

Ni's shadow is Se

Fi's shadow is Te

And so on.

The analysis from the derivation you've taken is perhaps substantive, but the concept of the shadow is not to reveal some hidden intent behind the persona, it is to reveal the weaknesses by which one operates. Take your analysis, [MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION]:

Ni - Ne
Fe - Fi
Ti - Te
Se - Si

While one may see a "hidden ENFP", I see an individual incapable of perception, a sharp detach between what is sensed the perception of these sensations...

"For we find in his unconscious a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality may, therefore, best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint are the characters of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression."

All this mechanistic rationalization is an impairment to the analysis of personality.

 

[yeghor]

..."For we find in his unconscious a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality may, therefore, best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint are the characters of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression."...

Who is this paragraph talking about? Source?

 

[WALMART]

Who is this paragraph talking about? Source?

Introverted intuitives. Carl Jung, Psychological Types, chapter ten.

 

[yeghor]

Introverted intuitives. Carl Jung, Psychological Types, chapter ten.

Could he be talking about anima\animus? Or is he specifically speaking about the shadow archetype...? As a sidenote, a younger photo of Jung reminded me of the type ISTJ... Do you know whether he's basing this conclusion on himself?

 

[WALMART]

Could he be talking about anima\animus? Or is he specifically speaking about the shadow archetype...? As a sidenote, a younger photo of Jung reminded me of the type ISTJ... Do you know whether he's basing this conclusion on himself?

If I had to guess, he's basing his conclusions on the thousands of people whose psyches he'd explored.

 

[yeghor]

"For we find in his unconscious a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality may, therefore, best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint are the characters of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression."

Ok, this doesn't make sense wrt MBTI functions... INxJs, i.e., introverted intuitives have an inferior Se function... it's a conscious one in that INxJs are sensitive to external sensory stimuli... I am also able to read body language very well, too well for my liking indeed that I react to it thru anxiety and fear... So it doesn't make sense, in MBTI mechanics, for an INxJ to have an primitive Se-dominant character\persona in his\her unconscious... cause the Se function is already located in the conscious part of the self according to the mechanics... I would understand if the passage was talking about INxJs having an Si-dominant primitive character in their unconscious...

Of course this may also mean that MBTI mechanics does not fit well or entirely with Jung's theories...?

When I am angry my first reaction is to "yell" not to "strike"... I don't employ Se but rather Te when I am angry...a Te connected to Ne probably...?

 

[WALMART]

Ok, this doesn't make sense wrt MBTI functions... INxJs, i.e., introverted intuitives have an inferior Se function... it's a conscious one in that INxJs are sensitive to external sensory stimuli... I am also able to read body language very well, too well for my liking indeed that I react to it thru anxiety and fear... So it doesn't make sense, in MBTI mechanics, for an INxJ to have an primitive Se-dominant character\persona in his\her unconscious... cause the Se function is already located in the conscious part of the self according to the mechanics... I would understand if the passage was talking about INxJs having an Si-dominant primitive character in their unconscious...

Of course this may also mean that MBTI mechanics does not fit well or entirely with Jung's theories...?

When I am angry my first reaction is to "yell" not to "strike"... I don't employ Se but rather Te when I am angry...a Te connected to Ne probably...?

whu

lol

I think you're in a realm wholly different than me on the subject of typology.

 

[yeghor]

whu

lol

I think you're in a realm wholly different than me on the subject of typology.

Details can be found in this earlier post of mine:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68376&p=2260839&viewfull=1#post2260839