Goals are for losers

[Thursday]

I'm having a hard time understanding this. He's saying not to have goals but to have a system? Does he mean something like an affirmation?The examples he gave were too specific. The only clear part was what the ceo he met in the flight had to say.Could you elaborate a bit? I like to hear what you have to say. Give an example. @kyueii you can add your two cents to it; the mantras. While you are at it please explain to me how to pronounce your username . Does he mean affirmations? I personally don't put deadlines to my goals. Simply have them written down and go through them to feel the need and to remind myself to look for opportunities.

Mantras such as "I must give my empathy and understanding so that it helps both of us, no further" or "building the empire brick by brick, choose wisely"

 

[Bamboo]

Is goal accomplished?
Yes or no.

Is goal being worked toward at present moment?
Yes or no.

Is goal being worked toward as a trend?
Yes or no?




If you just ask the first question, you're might think you're a loser any time the answer isn't yes.

But that'd be pretty short sighted.

Failure or losing would probably be better assessed with the last question, up to the point where you can no longer accomplish the goal (deadline past) and by default you fail.

 

[Thursday]

Is goal accomplished?
Yes or no.

Is goal being worked toward at present moment?
Yes or no.

Is goal being worked toward as a trend?
Yes or no?




If you just ask the first question, you're might think you're a loser any time the answer isn't yes.

But that'd be pretty short sighted.

Failure or losing would probably be better assessed with the last question, up to the point where you can no longer accomplish the goal (deadline past) and by default you fail.

This for the win

 

[Bamboo]

But one thing I like to think about is that a 'system' is a way of doing something consistantly.

If you try and blast off like a rocket at a large, multi-part goal, you're probably going to fall flat.

So in that sense, you should establish a system to break things down and get them done over time rather than just saying "do this! get it done!". You'll break down eventually if you don't break your goals down first.




Again, referring to my above post, I think you have to look at your progress in the short term and as a trend overall too.

 

[Coriolis]

But one thing I like to think about is that a 'system' is a way of doing something consistantly.

If you try and blast off like a rocket at a large, multi-part goal, you're probably going to fall flat.

So in that sense, you should establish a system to break things down and get them done over time rather than just saying "do this! get it done!". You'll break down eventually if you don't break your goals down first.

One of the biggest problems with processes is that people often fail to revise or replace them as time goes on and needs and circumstances change. They set up a process that works for awhile, or produces a few good results, and assume it will do so for all time. Their effort in creating the process to begin with seems to make them want to preserve it as-is, and they become invested in it for its own sake rather than for what it can (possibly no longer) do.

 

[Anew Leaf]

One of the biggest problems with processes is that people often fail to revise or replace them as time goes on and needs and circumstances change. They set up a process that works for awhile, or produces a few good results, and assume it will do so for all time. Their effort in creating the process to begin with seems to make them want to preserve it as-is, and they become invested in it for its own sake rather than for what it can (possibly no longer) do.

This is something important I have sort of touched upon at times in life but never quite got it deeply.

I just read a fabulous book the other night and it talked about failure as one point. And pointed out that if you fail at something it has nothing to do with yourself but the method that failed. So create a new method based on the new info and try again.

I know that that will be self evident to some people but it wasn't to me as I take too much to heart when it comes to myself and failure.

 

[Bamboo]

One of the biggest problems with processes is that people often fail to revise or replace them as time goes on and needs and circumstances change. They set up a process that works for awhile, or produces a few good results, and assume it will do so for all time. Their effort in creating the process to begin with seems to make them want to preserve it as-is, and they become invested in it for its own sake rather than for what it can (possibly no longer) do.

True, the bad thing about humans is we can form habits.

But the good thing is we can form habits.

Well made systems enhance efficiency in the environment they were designed for. Change the environment, and they stop working right. Never make it right to begin with and garbage in, garbage out.

So part of the system needs to be monitoring the environment for changes. When it does, form a new habit.

 

[Coriolis]

True, the bad thing about humans is we can form habits.

But the good thing is we can form habits.

Well made systems enhance efficiency in the environment they were designed for. Change the environment, and they stop working right. Never make it right to begin with and garbage in, garbage out.

So part of the system needs to be monitoring the environment for changes. When it does, form a new habit.

We need a meta-process for analyzing and optimizing our processes.

 

[garbage]

Different strokes, I guess?

He makes the assumption that it's inevitable to feel like a loser if you don't reach your goal. Shoot for first on such-and-such a Top 100 list, and you might get sixth. That's still pretty damned impressive.

In addition, setting a goal can serve as a motivator for you to figure out a process to use to get there. Often, you can set the goal and (almost) forget it. (It's still worth reminding yourself once in a while that the calendar, scale, or GPA still exists.)

edit:
And..

[MENTION=5578]bologna[/MENTION] mentioned somewhere about adjusting your inner perspective by imagining yourself as the kind of person who does whatever accomplishment is embodied in your goals. You progress, then, not by looking at some distant target, but by comparing your small decisions in the moment with such a person. (I hope I am restating this correctly.) This seems useful, but mostly in getting yourself out of a rut of perpetual failure and disappointment. Once you become that person who can do whatever, it is time to decide what to do with your newfound attitude, confidence, and skills. This is where more traditional goal-setting can productively come back into play.

From my own perspective, goals give me something to focus on, keep me accountable to myself, and break up my dreams into manageable pieces, which I can then realize one by one.

.. yup, I still stand by this process, especially for getting out of a rut.


Let's also throw some quotes around:

“When it is obvious that the goals cannot be reached, don't adjust the goals, adjust the action steps.”

--Confucius​

Not always the prudent thing to do; but, hey, it's worth a try.

/xxxJ-talk, I guess

 

[Typh0n]

I think the book Mastery: the keys to success and long term fullfillment by George Leonard, says it much better.

 

[wolfy]

I think the book Mastery: the keys to success and long term fullfillment by George Leonard, says it much better.

That is an awesome book.

 

[Mole]

The study of goals is called teleology.

And teleology tells us that goals are a function of print, for print is linear and sequential with a beginning, a middle and an end.

And in fact we take print so much for granted, we now take goals for granted.

But teleology has met the telegraph, the telephone and the television, and ironically the tele -graph, -phone, and -vision are not teleological.

Yes, the teles are not linear and sequential, rather everything happens at the speed of light and appears to us to be happening all at once. Under the teles there is no time or space for a leisurely movement towards a goal, it's all here and all now.

 

[zago]

To put it bluntly, goals are for losers. That's literally true most of the time. For example, if your goal is to lose 10 pounds, you will spend every moment until you reach the goal—if you reach it at all—feeling as if you were short of your goal. In other words, goal-oriented people exist in a state of nearly continuous failure that they hope will be temporary.

I mean, what?

First, it is pretty much impossible not to have goals, whether you explicitly define them as goals or not.

Second, no, you obviously don't spend every moment feeling as if you were short of your goal. I want to gain 20 pounds of muscle, and I am working toward that goal, and it is quite fine. I enjoy working out, I enjoy seeing progress, and most of the time I am actually not thinking of the goal. It's always in the back of my mind.

That quote is stupid.

 

[Thalassa]

It depends on what you mean by goal and how you.go about reaching it. If you say I am going to lose ten pounds, maybe you feel like a loser until you do, but if you instead say I am going to have a healthy lifestyle and eat fresh, whole foods more and make myself happy by doing exercise I enjoy, then you win every time you eat healthy food and do your favorite activities. The weight loss is secondary to living a fuller life, though ten pounds may come off incidentally.

I don't feel like a loser because I don't have a forestry degree yet, I feel more fulfilled every time I do something related to environmental conservation and enjoying nature. I feel good about what I can do now, whatever it is.

Of course I don't have that whole big houses, shiny cars, keeping up with the Joneses and have a career because it's impressive instead of because I enjoy it mentality though. And yes I agree framing things that way makes many people miserable.

So yes and no.

 

[Thalassa]

I think there are sort of two components here. I like having something to work towards in the future. A goal. But it's also important to live a fulfilling life in the here-and-now. I dunno. I think a lot of it is about being able to see life at once as something in progress as well as already at it's destination. I definitely struggle to stay present-minded but that's where happiness is. But goals can be what help you become a more accurate external manifestation of who you want to be.

And gratitude. Gratitude is so important. If you only focus on what you don't have, you forget how much you do have. If you acknowledge what you have done, you will have confidence to keep doing.

 

[skylights]

And gratitude. Gratitude is so important. If you only focus on what you don't have, you forget how much you do have. If you acknowledge what you have done, you will have confidence to keep doing.

That is so true.

 

[Mole]

God is dead, the author is dead, privacy is dead, why we even listen into the private conversations of Angela Merkel, so it comes as no surprise that goals are dead too.

 

[Cellmold]

God is dead, the author is dead, privacy is dead, why we even listen into the private conversations of Angela Merkel, so it comes as no surprise that goals are dead too.

At least moles aren't dead.

 

[taylord]

You're only a loser if you think or feel you're one.

 

[Mole]

You're only a loser if you think or feel you're one.

What you don't seem to realise my dear Taylord is that loser is an American trope.

For instance in Oz we never use the word loser in the pejorative way Americans do.

So if you don't want to be seen as parochial, rather than naively saying loser, you might prefer to say American loser.

Then we will know you are a man of the world.