Fi users and not apologizing

[Azure Flame]

For fuck sake. I'm tired of people responding to my posts with this condescending bullshit.

 

[Castameare]

I described where. Would you prefer it verbatim?

His assumptions, her assumptions. Ours. His expectations, her expectations.

you mean this assumption part?
i mean we never get her assumptions, bc he hasn't talked to her yet, so we got his view on the situation.
and from the first post i couldn't get how you can go from i don't like how she asked me to throw her bowl away to Fe/Fi divide, people who use Fi don't apologize.

 

[Kalach]

haha. ok so what would be a situation in which an Fi user apologizes?

Beats me. The realms of reciprocity are all mixed up between Fe and Fi. Where and when you give and take becomes bizarre and onerous.

Also, were I to work off stereotypes, getting annoyed at an ESFP who asks you to do something for her is like saying no I don't like sex.


Sorry.

 

[Azure Flame]

Beats me. The realms of reciprocity are all mixed up between Fe and Fi. Where and when you give and take becomes bizarre and onerous.

Also, were I to work off stereotypes, getting annoyed at an ESFP who asks you to do something for her is like saying no I don't like sex.


Sorry.

Hmm, well it was more to do with her tone. Hand on her hip and deadpan expression. I've had an ISFP ask me for favors and her tone was pleasant and I was willing to do it. This wasn't the case here.

lol, Ghenghis Khan never did no bitch no favors....

 

[Castameare]

Listen dumbass, its obvious I should have stood up for myself. But I was too dumbfounded to say anything because we've been perfect friends for the last 5 months with no hitches. I didn't post this story so you could lecture me on how to behave in society. Take a moment to comprehend this post with your fucking fantastic "Ni".

so when did my Ni come into play?
and i didn't lecture anyone how he should behave, i just thought it would be better for your friendship if you just communicate what kinda irks you. i mean you said you both had a good time going on prior. now you feel disrespected but don't talk with her about it? why?

but oh well obviously there is always somehow some Fe Fi Ni conflict whatever going on in your head, if theres a problems it always somehow linked to cognitive functions then.

 

[Lexicon]

you mean this assumption part?
i mean we never get her assumptions, bc he hasn't talked to her yet, so we got his view on the situation.
and from the first post i couldn't get how you can go from i don't like how she asked me to throw her bowl away to Fe/Fi divide, people who use Fi don't apologize.

The assumptions of his own he describes in his 1st post.. and her potential assumptions we could possibly extrapolate from his descriptions of her behaviors in the post, can point to a possible Fi/Fe divide in terms of how the situation was interpreted on either side. She did something that obviously she didn't find offensive- rather, I imagine she may not have found it offensive since his breaking contact with her was distressing. We can assume she likes him & had no intention of inflicting pain. However, because everyone's emotional associations/reactions can vary- her behavior set something off within DJ emotionally- he felt disrespected- & reacted to that. Fe has the tendency to assume sometimes that people universally can recognize social cues, etiquette, and things of that nature. Nuances can get lost in the midst of reacting to feeling disrespected. And, like I said in another post.. introverted functions- Fi perhaps is more noticeable than others- have a degree of internalization involved.. so if she didn't find her behavior offensive while doing it, odds are high she assumed he wouldn't, either.

I'll make the disclaimer that I'm not speaking in terms of black & white absolutes. Functions, feelings, & people in general are more multifaceted than that. Fi & Fe people can fuck up and hurt someone without seeing it.. but how it's experienced & expressed can vary. For some people, taking it apart with functions when reflecting on what happened, can help them see from the other person's pov. I'm just pointing out broad possibilities about the situation, & suggesting ways to understand what she might have been thinking/feeling at the time, how she might be thinking/feeling now, & what might help to resolve the situation, so neither party feels hurt.

 

[Rasofy]

http://www.thefirstseduction.com/inner-game/how-to-pass-a-girls-shit-tests/

Live and learn.

 

[Cellmold]

I always tread on peoples toes and then demand they apologise because my foot hurts.

People have hard toes.

 

[Azure Flame]

[MENTION=13260]Rasofy[/MENTION], good point. Was probably a test now that I think about it.

 

[Lexicon]

http://www.thefirstseduction.com/inner-game/how-to-pass-a-girls-shit-tests/

Live and learn.

Gross.. people do this?

 

[Azure Flame]

Gross.. people do this?

Not the kind of people I like to associate with, but yes.

Every type has their tests. INFJ's especially have their tests. I have my tests. It just depends who is doing the testing and who is recieving. For example I'll tell a joke about pure capitalistic opportunism to test if they're some Fi reactive who's going to disapprove of my entrepreneurial spirit. Or I'll tell a girl she's "as attractive as a piece of shit", to see if she's the type to explode if I make one offhanded remark (which is often).

Anyway I don't want to deviate too far, but, aside from all the testing etc, I'm still wondering if Fi users appologize through actions and not through words. The only time I've heard an Fi user apologize in my life was when I yelled at my ESTJ father for not listening to me.

Through experience I've come to expect Fi users to apologize through their actions, and I wonder, from an Fi perspective, if this is true or if these people are just being douche tits and I've had a stroke of bad luck in making friends.

 

[Rasofy]

Gross.. people do this?

Yep. Most people are more subtle, fortunately.

 

[Lexicon]

Yep. Most people are more subtle, fortunately.

Yeah.. DJ made sense about people having various kinds of tests. And I mean, it's true.. I just couldn't fathom treating someone poorly just to see if they'd take it. I mean, at best, sure, it's a quick way to see if the guy is a doormat.. but couldn't observation serve the same purpose? At worst.. if the guy is a doormat.. he's got self value issues you're actively preying upon for your own benefit, & leaving him worse off than he was before. Overall it just seems like a really.. disgusting way to figure someone out. But yeah, I don't wanna derail the thread too much with this, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Azure Flame]

Yeah.. DJ made sense about people having various kinds of tests. And I mean, it's true.. I just couldn't fathom treating someone poorly just to see if they'd take it. I mean, at best, sure, it's a quick way to see if the guy is a doormat.. but couldn't observation serve the same purpose? At worst.. if the guy is a doormat.. he's got self value issues you're actively preying upon for your own benefit, & leaving him worse off than he was before. Overall it just seems like a really.. disgusting way to figure someone out. But yeah, I don't wanna derail the thread too much with this, so I'll leave it at that.

Right. The only logical conclusion I could think of when she said that to me was, "is this guy gonna be someone I can take advantage of?"

The very fact that she was even QUESTIONING this, I found very revealing of her character and rather insulting. I'm hoping I left out an option that makes more sense and hints that she's a person who values other human beings.

 

[Lexicon]

Right. The only logical conclusion I could think of when she said that to me was, "is this guy gonna be someone I can take advantage of?"

The very fact that she was even QUESTIONING this, I found very revealing of her character and rather insulting.

Like I said.. it is entirely possible she found this behavior benign. Perhaps she's accustomed to guys doing things for her when they express that they like her. Acts of service is one of those "love languages," & perhaps it's one of her primary ones. ESFP's aren't known for their deep introspection, generally- so she may not even be aware that this isn't just something that by default comes with the territory of courting behaviors; that it's more a quality she finds desirable or makes her feel cared for.

The best way to narrow down the possibilities is to ask her, & tell her how it made you feel. I hope you do that, so at least you don't have to wonder.

 

[Rasofy]

Yeah.. DJ made sense about people having various kinds of tests. And I mean, it's true.. I just couldn't fathom treating someone poorly just to see if they'd take it. I mean, at best, sure, it's a quick way to see if the guy is a doormat.. but couldn't observation serve the same purpose? At worst.. if the guy is a doormat.. he's got self value issues you're actively preying upon for your own benefit, & leaving him worse off than he was before. Overall it just seems like a really.. disgusting way to figure someone out. But yeah, I don't wanna derail the thread too much with this, so I'll leave it at that.

I think women who get hit on a lot get kinda desensitized to the side effects of their tests. Also, the testing process isn't very conscious for most people, I believe.

Anyways, gotta sleep.

 

[Azure Flame]

I think women who get hit on a lot get kinda desensitized to the side effects. Also, the testing process isn't very conscious for most people, I believe.

Anyways, gotta sleep.

your avatar + that smiley = lmao

 

[Lexicon]

I think women who get hit on a lot get kinda desensitized to the side effects of their tests. Also, the testing process isn't very conscious for most people, I believe.

Yeah.. I have some trust issues, & I'm trying to bring to mind specific instances where I've been testing someone to determine just how much I can trust them, etc. Hard to come up with specifics. Not that I'm hit on a lot. Unconscious, indeed- either way.

Anyways, gotta sleep.

Sleep is for the weak & the pregnant. . . but I'll overlook it this time.
*holds back judgement*

your avatar + that smiley = lmao

that damned avatar has always been creepy to me, hah.

 

[Kalach]

A: "can you throw this away for me?"
B: "I sure can! But I'm a little busy right now. Could you hold onto it for me?"
A: "Gah! I'll do it myself."
B: "Wow, you're super. Sorry I couldn't help out."

 

[Salomé]

Well there was more to it than that. First I glared at her for 3 whole seconds. Then I looked at the plate. Then I cursed and said, "Because I"m such a nice fucking guy." and left.

I feel like, if anyone has a pair of eyes and a brain they'd know what just happened.

Which one are you missing?

So, after learning some socionics, I've learned that Fi often ASSUMES the internal state of other people, while Fe needs to hear it in an objective fashion.

Which one are you employing in this instance?

I looked at her feeling pain from what she said, and responded, "because I'm such a nice fucking guy." I took her tray and threw it out for her and didn't speak to her for a month.

I'm puzzled why you find her request "painful", but do it anyway. Both things are...puzzling.
Now you're angry because you feel like you've made yourself into her little bitch, but hey, you kind of did. And sulking about it is pretty dumb.

She started to realize that I had no intention of speaking to her ever again. I door slammed her. She started getting upset and anytime I was near she'd look at me a lot and make faces of concern. I don't know what emotion it was specifically. Some sort of remorse, guilt, something.

Ima go with "something".

So now I'm wondering, is she actually sorry? Do Fi users need to appologize? Or should I just assume it?

She has nothing to apologise for. She asked you to do something for her. You did it. Then you threw a tantrum. She's probably waiting for you to apologise/grow up.

Am I wrong to attribute this to Fi/Fe difference?

Yes.

or am I just dealing with people who don't care about what I think?

Seems like a safe conclusion.