Fi vs Fe Explained!

[Doctorjuice]

I agree with a lot of what you say in this thread but this part is simply not right. Try figuring out an ISFJ's emotions some time. They are not easy to read at all. Maybe if Fe is dominant instead of auxiliary, it makes a difference.

At least from my perspective, the Fe in an ISFJ looks exactly the same and has exactly the same characteristics as ENFJs, ESFJs, and INFJs (the characteristics I've described previously. Though with the IxFJs they are less pronounced.). In fact I had an ISFJ in mind when I was describing some of the characteristics in this thread. So, I wonder why you see it differently. You're saying you have trouble reading their emotions? What about INFJs?

 

[Thalassa]

At least from my perspective, the Fe in an ISFJ looks exactly the same and has exactly the same characteristics as ENFJs, ESFJs, and INFJs (the characteristics I've described previously. Though with the IxFJs they are less pronounced.). In fact I had an ISFJ in mind when I was describing some of the characteristics in this thread. So, I wonder why you see it differently. You're saying you have trouble reading their emotions? What about INFJs?

My experience of IxFJs is that they be a little more reserved, but they still have a gentle warmth, unlike the blazing open warmth of the ExFJ.

An ISFJ who showed little to no expression would be in an Si/Ti loop.

 

[Doctorjuice]

So if I posted a video of myself on this forum, do you think you could diagnose me as an Fe or Fi user based on my facial expressions?

Maybe, maybe not. It would be very cool if I could solely through facial expressions. At the very least, the facial expressions would provide clues. But also, you have your type listed so I know that you're an Fi user anyway

 

[Doctorjuice]

My experience of IxFJs is that they be a little more reserved, but they still have a gentle warmth, unlike the blazing open warmth of the ExFJ.

An ISFJ who showed little to no expression would be in an Si/Ti loop.

Right, it's not a blazing open warmth, but it's still a very open warmth. Both IxFJs make strong use of Ti (at least, the ones I've met).

 

[Thalassa]

Agreed totally. Few people see what I feel deeply as I recognize that it would be odd to them. Thus I play, I energize others, I bring a bit of bubble into each conversation and I exchange lots of ideas. I make random jokes to make them laugh. But none of that is what I feel deeply about-actually very often all of that aims to avoid topics I feel deeply about. I once saw another enfp say we use Ne to "fake" people out to avoid emotionally intense topics. Highly evasive.

I think all Fi types do this, whether it's putting up a bubbly, idea-exchanging energetic "shield" or it's a crass, bitter, sarcastic shield that makes many IxTJs sound liek curmudgeons, when we all know there's banana cream pie inside.

I know that I speak harshly or flippantly (making cutting or snide remarks) or make jokes or act sarcastic to hide the intensity of my fragile little fweelings, and I've seen IxTJs do it to a degree that makes them look like a deep freeze where you could safely store a dead body.

 

[highlander]

At least from my perspective, the Fe in an ISFJ looks exactly the same and has exactly the same characteristics as ENFJs, ESFJs, and INFJs (the characteristics I've described previously. Though with the IxFJs they are less pronounced.). In fact I had an ISFJ in mind when I was describing some of the characteristics in this thread. So, I wonder why you see it differently. You're saying you have trouble reading their emotions? What about INFJs?

But they show outward expression, even if you aren't seeing their true inner self. If an ISFJ cares about you, and you're crying your eyes out, they're not gonna look at you and say "oh." They're also more inclined to social norms of expression of caring than the strange and unemotional acts of service you might see with an ISTJ. An ISTJ might leave some types wondering if they love them at all, because they don't know to interpret their loyalty, consistency, gifts, and acts of service as love, because you're not getting any mushy-gushy affection or saying "I love you, you mean the world to me" etc.

Like I remember once I said to my grandfather when I was a moody teenager that he didn't love me. He said, "WHAT THE HELL I HAVE GIVEN YOU EVERYTHING. I AM YOUR BEST FRIEND." And now as an adult I see it so clearly, that I would have been nowhere without him, and he was more consistent and protective and structured in my life than my own mother.

I still think with an ISFJ you'd have less doubts.

Maybe there is a question on what it means to "show emotions". Attached is a link to a post I drafted somewhere towards the end of a very long thread on the Fe/Fi topic. It summarized what I learned about the two.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37827&p=1421311&viewfull=1#post1421311

 

[Giggly]

I've been told I'm cool at first, then once I'm comfortable, very animated.

Me too.

 

[Xenon]

At least from my perspective, the Fe in an ISFJ looks exactly the same and has exactly the same characteristics as ENFJs, ESFJs, and INFJs (the characteristics I've described previously. Though with the IxFJs they are less pronounced.). In fact I had an ISFJ in mind when I was describing some of the characteristics in this thread. So, I wonder why you see it differently. You're saying you have trouble reading their emotions? What about INFJs?

Some INFJs themselves have said they can come across as cold and distant. A description I've heard about them is "cold on the outside; fluffy on the inside". They definitely aren't described often as open books and tend to be hard to get to know well. (I haven't found the ISFJs I know to be that hard to read and they do come across as quite warm, although they are pretty quiet and reserved).

Very interesting hearing from ExFPs on hiding their deepest feelings. I've noticed when xxFPs talk of being reserved with their feelings because they expect others won't understand/resonate with them, and when xxFJs talk of holding back emotionally it's often out of fear of hurting someone else's feelings or creating a negative environment or something. (What [MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION] said about wanting to withdraw and process dissent on your own first, or feeling like it's not worth the energy cost, is something I actually relate to quite a lot myself. I don't know if it's an introvert thing or if Fe has something to do with it).

I do think both can seem expressive or reserved in different ways or for different reasons though, so judging "level of expressiveness" isn't a good way to sort out Fe/Fi. Even if ExFPs hold back a lot, they still seem plenty expressive from the outside. Expressing enthusiasm and expressing excitement - well, those are still emotions, aren't they? They aren't the only emotions they have, but you can still see them expressing emotion. And I definitely haven't found ExFPs to be harder to "read" than IxFJs. I do think I/E (and maybe T/F preference) has far more to do with that than Fi/Fe.

 

[Doctorjuice]

Some INFJs themselves have said they can come across as cold and distant. A description I've heard about them is "cold on the outside; fluffy on the inside". They definitely aren't described often as open books and tend to be hard to get to know well. (I haven't found the ISFJs I know to be that hard to read and they do come across as quite warm, although they are pretty quiet and reserved).

Are you basing this off of what forum posters have said or what you've seen in real life? In real life, one INFJ I know is very quiet and very reserved, but when he's giving off any sort of emotion it looks exactly the same as all the other xxFJs: Open and, uh, expressive....it flows....how I described in the video.

I do think both can seem expressive or reserved in different ways or for different reasons though, so judging "level of expressiveness" isn't a good way to sort out Fe/Fi. Even if ExFPs hold back a lot, they still seem plenty expressive from the outside. Expressing enthusiasm and expressing excitement - well, those are still emotions, aren't they? They aren't the only emotions they have, but you can still see them expressing emotion. And I definitely haven't found ExFPs to be harder to "read" than IxFJs. I do think I/E (and maybe T/F preference) has far more to do with that than Fi/Fe.

I'll have to think about this.

 

[Southern Kross]

no, not at all. while we may be bubbly and enthusiastic on the outside and most ENFPs tend to share their energy with the outside world, we seldom share our actual feelings, which are more akin to something you would read in a piece of dramatic literature or fantasy story. the feelings of most ENFPs feel out of place in the "real" world and, on the rare occasion where we do share them, they are often met with confusion and or awkward moments (most FPs learn early on who they can trust to share their feelings with).

You might be right in this. I think EXFPs' energy and enthusiasm gives the appearance of emotional openness, which is deceptive.

Just occurred to me. I have notice my Fi dom friends do this really searching eye contact--are really intense with their eyes when looking at you, like as a major tool to understand something I am saying, or me.

I wonder if it's because Ne/Se is their aux function? Like moreso than an Se/Ne dom because their aux Fi wouldn't drive them so much to need to see deeply into another's eyes.

In contrast, I won't use eye contact much at all to understand someone, I don't find it helpful. I reserve eye contact for super intense moments. I use my intuition predominantly, and my introverted sensing.

Sorry to buck the trend but I avoid eye contact habitually. Perhaps when I do look at someone it seems intense but mostly I offer next to no eye contact (ie. it's Asperger's-like), which give the appearance I'm detached and not listening at all. Conversely, the reason I look away is so I can listen more carefully without distractions.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Hmm....I've never really known any ixfps that didn't make serious eye contact. I guess you are one exceptional lady.

 

[Giggly]

I'm ISFJ and I just asked my friend if she thinks I'm hard to read and she said "No, not at all. You don't play games. When you go for it, you go for it".

I asked her if she considers me expressive and she said yes.

 

[professor goodstain]

Fe is way better than Fi.

Just sayin'.

because of the predictability?

 

[Jaguar]

because of the predictability?

You just spooked the piss out of me.
I was just thinking about you and OneWithSoul, then your name popped up on iSpy.

Hope all is well.

 

[Eric B]

Some INFJs themselves have said they can come across as cold and distant. A description I've heard about them is "cold on the outside; fluffy on the inside". They definitely aren't described often as open books and tend to be hard to get to know well. (I haven't found the ISFJs I know to be that hard to read and they do come across as quite warm, although they are pretty quiet and reserved).

That's the Interaction Style (Chart the Course) that shapes that tendency. (ISFJ is "Behind the Scenes", which is more "responsive").

 

[011235813]

That's the Interaction Style (Chart the Course) that shapes that tendency. (ISFJ is "Behind the Scenes", which is more "responsive").

Except that IxFPs are also "Behind the Scenes" and people are always going on about cold Fi.

 

[Mia.]

I've been told I'm cool at first, then once I'm comfortable, very animated.

Absolutely. It takes quite a while for me to get to that stage and it takes the right person, but when I do people have said it’s like a 180.

Fi users control their facial expressions and don't show you emotions they don't want you to see, also they don't show their emotions as naturally as Fe users. Fe users show their emotions almost immediately and are a bit more open book. If they don't want to show you their emotions they're going to have a tougher time doing so.

Yep. I grew up as the only Fi user in an all Fe household (INFJ, ISTP, ISFJ). I was definitely the odd one out in this respect. They always complained about my “poker face.” They definitely didn’t appreciate my Te use, either.

I agree that ExFPs show more emotion than IxFPs. IxFPs' Fi is stronger and more pronounced than ExFPs' Fi. Their inner-world of emotions is very deep and complex. Because of this, IxFPs' might not even be capable of fully expressing their deep, complex inner emotions externally, whereas the ExFPs find it easier expressing their inner emotions just because their inner emotions aren't as deep. IxFPs are more selective about the emotions they share because they have "more" emotions to choose from, so to speak.

It’s also a matter of 1.) my deepest feelings are connected to much wider existential principles, so it’s not just a matter of talking about my feelings, because my feelings are in the context of this wide, complex framework, which would take too long to convey (and I refuse to convey the feelings without their context.) And 2.) I won’t show the framework unless I trust someone deeply because it is extremely important to me and I won’t subject it to ridicule or misunderstanding. Probably similarly to Ni users and their visions/premonitions.

Just occurred to me. I have notice my Fi dom friends do this really searching eye contact--are really intense with their eyes when looking at you, like as a major tool to understand something I am saying, or me.

I wonder if it's because Ne/Se is their aux function? Like moreso than an Se/Ne dom because their aux Fi wouldn't drive them so much to need to see deeply into another's eyes.

In contrast, I won't use eye contact much at all to understand someone, I don't find it helpful.

This is hilarious. I have a friend who used to call me Dr. Lightman (from the show “Lie to Me”). Of course I consider that a gross exaggeration. But it is true that I consider eyes the windows of the soul, and I tend to deeply regard someone when I am listening to them (I take in more than just the eyes, though… my periphery is concerned with all body language and voice intonation and flow of conversation… taking in everything and forming a composite). I think with me it is very much Ne, in the service of Fi. I had an INTJ friend who prided himself on his smoothness and stealth who once told me that I was the only person who could ever consistently tell he was lying/bending the truth/omitting something.

I expend a lot of energy and focus reading people for two reasons 1.) I genuinely want to know them and understand them as individuals so I can appreciate them and be of the most effective help to them, (Fi and sx stacking) and 2.) it’s of paramount importance to me to understand others’ intentions and motivations in order to deflect and neutralize insincere or self-serving behavior and protect myself (also Fi and the sp part of my stacking). I’ve studied PUA extensively for the same reasons, probably more in depth than most PUAs have.

The two IxFPs that I've known very well communicate through their eyes more/better than they do verbally. Maybe that's why they look at others eyes.

This is interesting. I’ve given less thought to that aspect. I’d be interested in any fleshing out of this idea you’d be willing to provide.

I was getting a manicure the other day and was asking the little asian lady who was doing it questions about herself during the process. She seemed very unaccustomed to having anyone ask her about herself, and was giving short, quick answers while looking down. I noticed after she looked up at me and we made eye contact her demeanor changed and she looked back down and started to talk more and ended up telling me quite a bit about herself and some hard times she had had. Maybe something about my eyes conveyed something? Dunno…

 

[The Great One]

Maybe, maybe not. It would be very cool if I could solely through facial expressions. At the very least, the facial expressions would provide clues. But also, you have your type listed so I know that you're an Fi user anyway

You don't know that at all. It's between ENFP and ENTP, but I will go make a video now.

 

[Doctorjuice]

You don't know that at all. It's between ENFP and ENTP, but I will go make a video now.

Okay, but I request that you talk a little bit about your interests, something you're passionate about and something that really makes you angry or grinds your gears. Also, try not to make it too formal and be relaxed

 

[The Great One]

Okay, but I request that you talk a little bit about your interests, something you're passionate about and something that really makes you angry or grinds your gears. Also, try not to make it too formal and be relaxed

Ok here is the video:

http://youtu.be/vGtpBNufH5U