[NT] ENFP confused by INTx

[AgentF]

he sounds like an e5. not sure about 5w4 or 5w6.

the worst thing about 5s and especially 5w4 is the inherent sense of separation, of isolation. you feel fundamentally cut off from others, and you feel like no one sees you because you are so airy, such diffuse mindspace, so disembodied. but like you're drifting away from the world, that you'll become ghostly, that no one understands you or even could understand you. and it's combined with a sense of being unable to change the situation, of being incapable of action, of being overwhelmed by the glass that keeps you out of the world no matter how many times you try to shatter it. 5w6, on the other hand, is more on the lookout for being coerced, for being forced or pushed, and more vigilant against such things. he is also more reliant on empirical results to really test anything on the road to trust. that could be quite relevant as well! so 5w6s are more fearful of trust for reasons of empirical reliability whereas 5w4s are more distrustful for fear of being defective as an empty mindspace with no real detectable human presence when deep down we feel like we are MORE HUMAN than the rest of the population.

also, he sounds like an intj. distinct Te signals, and with intjs, you have to factor in that their Te implementational sense will often override their emotions. they will feel them going in one direction but be better at maintaining the pre-established non-experiential hierarchy of purpose and meaning that they've constructed, their goal structure, etc.

also, you're right, the change is everything. my last relationship only got off the ground because she was willing to see me on terms outside of the terms that others imposed. your comment about being a former model is EXACTLY the kind of thing that makes us lose this tremendous enthusiasm, this tremendous hope for REAL SHARING which is at the core of what we have to offer (although this might be filtered through my Fe eyes), it just weakens our already such weak weak faith. faith is the hardest thing, certainty is the hardest thing, knowing is the hardest thing. because we're always stuck holding back, we're always afraid we'll get overdrawn and have nothing left, we hoard ourselves our energies and most of all our life because we are afraid of losing our own inner worlds which is what makes us what-->who we are. we are nothing without our vision (or, in Ti types, our immense story/systems). the comment you make to yourself, that easy justification and acceptance of what the social reality says (as what you deserve and what he is not giving you according to what your rank in society says you should get), wielding teh social reality against him that he feels so fundamentally disconnected from (and potentially distrustful of--i sure do, just as a kind of default stance that i have to overcome, because it doesn't recognize me or see me as i am at all but instead always makes me feel like i'm completely left off the map and the langauge and the values that others have) is such a serious kind of paranoid fear/phobia. this is kind of how e5 types test that out when they haven't come to terms with it. sincerity, honesty, if we can really see you, if you really understand us, and, especially for an infj 5 with an enp 7, if we feel like we have a sense of your PRIORITIES, well then, everything can instantaneously change. but we are very cautious until we feel that we have shared not only that fundamental sense of shared recognition, shared validation of each other, where we both see each other and ourselves and the US at the same time in a way that seems authentic and true, but also until we feel like we have a sense of how that fits into your basic priorities, a hierarchy, a sense of privilege and purpose. because we live by different rules, and we have such, if not different needs, different coping mechanisms that create extraneousnesses and other added weighty baggage needs. and we do not have the same techniques for avoiding pain or maintaining optimism that you do. and we are just as terrified of them, of those states, and the fear of pain is THE BARRIER in almost all of these situations, to be able to see why you are doing what you are doing, what is at stake, and whether or not the discomfort and pain is worth it to make it through this process. the communicative bandwidth with Ni-Ne doms is pretty amazing, but all the echoes in that immense tunnel can really jack up the paranoia.

wow. your post has given me about two week's worth of things to think about. i have no idea what terminology you used, but there are a few things i can comment on now:

regarding seeing someone on different terms: thank you for pointing this out. every aspect of getting to know him has been unique although not always in typically positive ways. my close friends and family are deeply fearful for me. they've called him a coward for being afraid of committing to me. selfish for asking to see me whenever he wants to and rarely planning several days in advance (this is partly my fault as i've been reluctant to mention to him that i really like spontaneity but sometimes need advance notice). a jerk for not worshiping me as some of the divas in my life think he should (i happen to know a few women whose husbands hounded them since the moment they met...they seem to think this is the only acceptable model for courting a woman, which confuses me b/c in my experience the men who chased me regardless of my logical protestations and our obvious differences were deeply unhealthy. nevertheless, they will swear as will their husbands that any man who will sleep with you for a few months and not offer you a relationship is using you. i simply cannot accept that my INTJ is that way as he seems deeply ethical).

he also mentioned that i'm unconventional. at the time i thought that was potentially a negative thing but i'm wondering if he actually meant it in a positive light. most people, especially those close to me, think i am somewhere on the bizarre or crazy end of the spectrum anyway. i often blurt out things that others suppress, have a very high risk tolerance, and in general have a nose for trouble (typically of the wholesome variety). i can say the craziest things to my INTJ, however, and he seems to understand. he may not always agree, of course, and if they're irrational thoughts, he'll quietly ask me about them until i further clarify, or identify an inconsistency in thought/another way of seeing it. i find that beautiful and very intellectually satisfying, and also something that inspires trust.

regarding faith and paranoia: in the beginning, when i was most effusive with my feelings, he would say "but what if you change your mind about how you feel about me?" i looked at him like he had just sprouted a horn. what could he mean?! i asked him to explain and he said that sometimes people change their minds in the middle of a relationship. i acknowledged that this was theoretically possible, but was nowhere in my previous dating patterns. i tend to stick it out 'till the bitter end, and simply don't abandon things about which i care deeply. he paused and said that it was still possible. i later learned that a previous girlfriend disappeared on him without a word and he'd been crushed. so i guess i have to prove my loyalty even more so, which doesn't daunt me. he said he's forgiven her but i'm guessing he was extra-deeply affected by this experience.

about the model comment: i can see that INTJs don't see that sort of thing the way most of society does, which is good in and of itself (and was a poor attempt to offer a frame of reference. i should know better with INTxs ). this has been on my mind as, on our second date, he actually mentioned that he did some cyberstalking and saw a publicity photo of me, which surprised me at the time (i know we all google potential partners, but who brings it up on the second date?). anyway, in light of your comments i wonder whether he asked me about that part of my life to gauge my response, see how that fit into my overall sense of self, etc. he has never give me an outright comment but a few times has stated very matter-of-factly that i'm "hot". i told him that that i didn't know how to take that as i grew up looking (and feeling) like an alien.* being an ugly, ugly duckling and then suddenly getting attention from people (when i'd already withdrawn into my inner emotional shell from having been told i look weird) made me mistrustful of comments that seem like objectifications. maybe i've added a layer of complexity, because i'm extremely insecure. in fact, he's caught me a few times fishing for a compliment in very ENFP-like fashion. i don't know how to tell him that i want to know what *he* thinks about me, not some generic term like "hot". he was reluctant to say anything when i asked him about this, although his nickname for me is occasionally beautiful. when he's said that my inner voice says, "that's not the same thing as telling them me you think i'm beautiful." or is it? is this how INTJs pay compliments: obliquely or very matter-of-factly?

* this is why your comment about feeling fundamentally disconnected from and potentially distrustful of society really resonated with me. i've always known i was different inside, but growing up looking different on the outside as well made it unbearable. i wonder if feeling different for ENFPs is parallel to thinking different[ly] for INTJs.**
** daniel day-lewis (an INFP) said that without acting, he would have no place in society. ENFPs seem to need their emotional outlets to survive, do INTJs need their intellectual escapes in the same way?

 

[AgentF]

wow. your post has given me about two week's worth of things to think about. i have no idea what terminology you used, but there are a few things i can comment on now:

regarding seeing someone on different terms: thank you for pointing this out. every aspect of getting to know him has been unique although not always in typically positive ways. my close friends and family are deeply fearful for me. they've called him a coward for being afraid of committing to me. selfish for asking to see me whenever he wants to and rarely planning several days in advance (this is partly my fault as i've been reluctant to mention to him that i really like spontaneity but sometimes need advance notice). a jerk for not worshiping me as some of the divas in my life think he should (i happen to know a few women whose husbands hounded them since the moment they met...they seem to think this is the only acceptable model for courting a woman, which confuses me b/c in my experience the men who chased me regardless of my logical protestations and our obvious differences were deeply unhealthy. nevertheless, they will swear as will their husbands that any man who will sleep with you for a few months and not offer you a relationship is using you. i simply cannot accept that my INTJ is that way as he seems deeply ethical).

he also mentioned that i'm unconventional. at the time i thought that was potentially a negative thing but i'm wondering if he actually meant it in a positive light. most people, especially those close to me, think i am somewhere on the bizarre or crazy end of the spectrum anyway. i often blurt out things that others suppress, have a very high risk tolerance, and in general have a nose for trouble (typically of the wholesome variety). i can say the craziest things to my INTJ, however, and he seems to understand. he may not always agree, of course, and if they're irrational thoughts, he'll quietly ask me about them until i further clarify, or identify an inconsistency in thought/another way of seeing it. i find that beautiful and very intellectually satisfying, and also something that inspires trust.

regarding faith and paranoia: in the beginning, when i was most effusive with my feelings, he would say "but what if you change your mind about how you feel about me?" i looked at him like he had just sprouted a horn. what could he mean?! i asked him to explain and he said that sometimes people change their minds in the middle of a relationship. i acknowledged that this was theoretically possible, but was nowhere in my previous dating patterns. i tend to stick it out 'till the bitter end, and simply don't abandon things about which i care deeply. he paused and said that it was still possible. i later learned that a previous girlfriend disappeared on him without a word and he'd been crushed. so i guess i have to prove my loyalty even more so, which doesn't daunt me. he said he's forgiven her but i'm guessing he was extra-deeply affected by this experience.

about the model comment: i can see that INTJs don't see that sort of thing the way most of society does, which is good in and of itself (and was a poor attempt to offer a frame of reference. i should know better with INTxs ). this has been on my mind as, on our second date, he actually mentioned that he did some cyberstalking and saw a publicity photo of me, which surprised me at the time (i know we all google potential partners, but who brings it up on the second date?). anyway, in light of your comments i wonder whether he asked me about that part of my life to gauge my response, see how that fit into my overall sense of self, etc. he has never give me an outright comment but a few times has stated very matter-of-factly that i'm "hot". i told him that that i didn't know how to take that as i grew up looking (and feeling) like an alien.* being an ugly, ugly duckling and then suddenly getting attention from people (when i'd already withdrawn into my inner emotional shell from having been told i look weird) made me mistrustful of comments that seem like objectifications. maybe i've added a layer of complexity, because i'm extremely insecure. in fact, he's caught me a few times fishing for a compliment in very ENFP-like fashion. i don't know how to tell him that i want to know what *he* thinks about me, not some generic term like "hot". he was reluctant to say anything when i asked him about this, although his nickname for me is occasionally beautiful. when he's said that my inner voice says, "that's not the same thing as telling them me you think i'm beautiful." or is it? is this how INTJs pay compliments: obliquely or very matter-of-factly?

* this is why your comment about feeling fundamentally disconnected from and potentially distrustful of society really resonated with me. i've always known i was different inside, but growing up looking different on the outside as well made it unbearable. i wonder if feeling different for ENFPs is parallel to thinking different[ly] for INTJs.**
** daniel day-lewis (an INFP) said that without acting, he would have no place in society. ENFPs seem to need their emotional outlets to survive, do INTJs need their intellectual escapes in the same way?

we ENFPs are concise, if anything.

 

[the state i am in]

i think daniel day lewis is an 5w6 sx/sp istp. his characters are masters of 5w6 brash counterphobia and paranoia. the butcher. there will be blood. even his character in the film adaptation of the unbearable lightness of being. there are also many e5 istps who have similar issues and look very much like intjs. the affect, the emotion for T types in general is a lesser portion/much quieter voice in their overall decision-making process. T types will be much more specific about what their actual goals are, and their relationship with their emotions will be wildly variable depending on the person. ethical, as you say, doesn't necessarily mean FAIR. as an F type, you'll want to establish some checks and balances to be able to measure sincerity as well, purity of intent (as you both define it), truths or worldviews. if these things are kind of aligned, that's pretty damn good, and trying to help each other along into better states of personal well-being seems much more worth it and much more possible.

with that in mind, i can see why e5s can be so difficult. you are so fast, you trust your emotional judgments, and while you're still afraid of getting hurt, you're willing to go with them much quicker than we would be. we e5s would want more certainty. i am very focused on the person immediately if i am interested, but the interactive elements of communicating that still have all of the fickle push-pull afraid to get hurt elements of a fear type that hasn't seen perfected his own system for being his best.

you do have a right to communicate, and it is important to remember that, but there is a difference between trying to focus so much on what you think you need and finding a way to get that accepted or rejected, and trying to slow down and figure out what is true for him. in these situations, if one of you can improve your own awareness of the situation, you can take the lead and solve part of the problem. but that does require some strategy. T types and e5s often have trouble taking ownership of and properly accounting for their emotions. and oftentimes lacking the practice, especially when they've been hurt before and made whatever vow to make it never happen again. in general, the cultural expectations also do support emotional withholding from males, so those aspects don't get called out as easily as some others do. we often feel, at least, the e7s can do it, even if we don't know how to make it easy.

also, i have enormous trouble giving compliments in relationships. i have this distanced compliment that is easy to give and encouraging for anyone. i can see something specific about them that other people don't realize and mention how great i think it is and also some of the potential i see in it that they might want to consider. but there's this detachment in relationships. it's not connected to emotion. it's not a "this is why i want you and not anyone else" kind of immediacy and declaration of love--even when i want it to be, even when i want to say it! so i just tease and play and banter instead, but i know the territory is marked as a real topic too. my former so told me i was a master of ambiguity. bc i didn't want to lay it on the line, so it would be more game-like. sometimes those things feel too much like a promise, and promises can be scary because we are so worried and overconcerned with CERTAINTY rather than with present personal truth. the weird thing about e7 is that e5 can easily read all these horrid you'll leave me fantasies into e7, because e5 also has thought and worried about them too. we are directly connected on the enneagram. and when stressed we can particularly embody many of the worst aspects of e7, so it's easy for us to see those and be extremely wary.

 

[AgentF]

ethical, as you say, doesn't necessarily mean FAIR.

yes. one concern i have is that INTJs have very finely-tuned abilities to rationalize things, which can be presented in ways that may lead to avoidance. for example, a former INTJ boyfriend of mine would say he was spiritually detaching from a difficult situation when he was actually emotionally withdrawing, albeit behind the facade of an extremely convincing argument. anyway, my ability to identify and confront him with situations where he was doing that was valuable to him as long as i did so with extreme compassion. he was such a mentally strong person with such underlying emotional frailty.

with that in mind, i can see why e5s can be so difficult. you are so fast, you trust your emotional judgments, and while you're still afraid of getting hurt, you're willing to go with them much quicker than we would be. we e5s would want more certainty.

we move fast, yes, and certainly have learned to trust our emotional judgments. our well-being depends on it. i am fairly comfortable with uncertainty but this situation presents more uncertainty than i've ever faced and i will likely have little reinforcement to go on apart from what he metes out. and does he seem worth it? yes, he does. but a collection of facts and a massive hunch is all i have to go on. which is probably why taking time to building mutual trust is a good idea. i'm just impatient...and scared. :/

...there is a difference between trying to focus so much on what you think you need and finding a way to get that accepted or rejected, and trying to slow down and figure out what is true for him. in these situations, if one of you can improve your own awareness of the situation, you can take the lead and solve part of the problem. but that does require some strategy.

yes. i wonder if he's aware that i feel like a little mouse in a maze. i like the idea of occasionally taking the lead but cannot imagine him letting me do that before i have earned his trust.

my former so told me i was a master of ambiguity. bc i didn't want to lay it on the line, so it would be more game-like. sometimes those things feel too much like a promise, and promises can be scary because we are so worried and overconcerned with CERTAINTY rather than with present personal truth.

i once gave this guy a series of gushing compliments. his reply? "i want to be able to take a compliment but i'm afraid i'll disappoint you, and, given how high you've set the bar, i will disappoint you. and i hate disappointing people." i replied and said that i accept disappointment as part of life. he seemed to like that.

 

[Thalassa]

yes. one concern i have is that INTJs have very finely-tuned abilities to rationalize things, which can be presented in ways that may lead to avoidance. for example, a former INTJ boyfriend of mine would say he was spiritually detaching from a difficult situation when he was actually emotionally withdrawing, albeit behind the facade of an extremely convincing argument. anyway, my ability to identify and confront him with situations where he was doing that was valuable to him as long as i did so with extreme compassion. he was such a mentally strong person with such underlying emotional frailty.

I think they're all like this, even if they don't all use the word "spiritual."

i once gave this guy a series of gushing compliments. his reply? "i want to be able to take a compliment but i'm afraid i'll disappoint you, and, given how high you've set the bar, i will disappoint you. and i hate disappointing people." i replied and said that i accept disappointment as part of life. he seemed to like that.

He sounds like an INTJ. The only way he could have made it clearer would have been responding to your compliments with, "Okay...what do you want?" as in being suspicious of your motives. Ha.

 

[AgentF]

p.s. how did you know that i was an enp 7?! i looked it up here and with a few exceptions (i'm more philosophical) pretty accurate

 

[the state i am in]

yes. one concern i have is that INTJs have very finely-tuned abilities to rationalize things, which can be presented in ways that may lead to avoidance. for example, a former INTJ boyfriend of mine would say he was spiritually detaching from a difficult situation when he was actually emotionally withdrawing, albeit behind the facade of an extremely convincing argument. anyway, my ability to identify and confront him with situations where he was doing that was valuable to him as long as i did so with extreme compassion. he was such a mentally strong person with such underlying emotional frailty.

we move fast, yes, and certainly have learned to trust our emotional judgments. our well-being depends on it. i am fairly comfortable with uncertainty but this situation presents more uncertainty than i've ever faced and i will likely have little reinforcement to go on apart from what he metes out. and does he seem worth it? yes, he does. but a collection of facts and a massive hunch is all i have to go on. which is probably why taking time to building mutual trust is a good idea. i'm just impatient...and scared. :/

yes. i wonder if he's aware that i feel like a little mouse in a maze. i like the idea of occasionally taking the lead but cannot imagine him letting me do that before i have earned his trust.

i once gave this guy a series of gushing compliments. his reply? "i want to be able to take a compliment but i'm afraid i'll disappoint you, and, given how high you've set the bar, i will disappoint you. and i hate disappointing people." i replied and said that i accept disappointment as part of life. he seemed to like that.

this definitely sounds like serious Te maneuvering. my former so didn't really do that with me, she let me take the lead more, although she did initiate at times when i was being stubborn (she wasn't a 5). she did help me shake a lot of the boyish tyranny that comes with sx types. i personally have immense trouble with Te, but i'm guessing you as an enfp have a much better natural understanding of it. as long as you are able to voice your emotional truths and pull some of those out of your intj, and not turn it into a both sides making claims about their needs, it seems promising. both of you, if at all healthy, will want to be fair. making sure some of the distortions that might happen in the communication get addressed quickly makes it so that the accountability is up to the individuals. i know, at that point, im almost always a much much better person. once i see the other, i can't help but want to be fair and generous. but the problem is making sure you see and are seen. it sounds like you have a pretty good handle on some of the internal processes, just keeping in mind some of the natural e5 coping mechanisms (distortions) and maybe doing some reading on those and you'll be ready to give it your best shot.

also, i've had excellent luck writing. and in relationships, especially for 5s and perhaps even more for intjs than infjs, writing can be an excellent platform to communicate (in a way that feels authentic to us, our experience, and our need for certainty).

 

[AgentF]

both of you, if at all healthy, will want to be fair. making sure some of the distortions that might happen in the communication get addressed quickly makes it so that the accountability is up to the individuals.

not sure why, but we both seem very interested in being fair. more so than any other relationship i've had. i think he had a more intuitive grasp of that (he was voicing guilt about us long before i was able to articulate even inwardly that there was an imbalance). having detached, i'm having a much easier time communicating with him over the past few days. as a result, he's really started to open up. he even texted that he missed me last night and was looking forward to seeing me...all (seemingly) from having given him space and shown interest in who he really is.

i know, at that point, im almost always a much much better person. once i see the other, i can't help but want to be fair and generous. but the problem is making sure you see and are seen.

exactly. others may not understand why i'd be willing to invest so much up-front with very little to go on. but i can see how this is making me a better person by helping me to further develop my empathy, patience and intuition. plus, he's such a pure person in so many ways, it seems worth it.

also, i've had excellent luck writing. and in relationships, especially for 5s and perhaps even more for intjs than infjs, writing can be an excellent platform to communicate (in a way that feels authentic to us, our experience, and our need for certainty).

that's what we've been doing over the past week due to the holidays. he seems to like it and is opening up much more than he does in person...i guess he feels safe and can express himself more completely. i'm getting used to it and use it as an opportunity to ask him tough questions (although one question prompted "I need at least 2 months to answer that." ).

 

[Salomé]

INTJboy gave me an actual cut-off time! He said he'd be happy to talk but only until x pm. And answered the final question at precisely x pm. I can only smile about this kind of thing, an ENFP would let the house burn down around us if engaged in a meaningful conversation, but not an INTx...and I find that sense of boundaries/structure utterly endearing.

An INTP might.

Yeah... I feel the need to correct you on that too. The timing thing? Wow. Very uncool. Not something I can imagine an INTP doing. Boundaries/structure are not our thing. We'll only cut you off if we find you draining/boring. Otherwise, in the (rare) presence of a kindred mind, all sense of time/space disappear...

we e5s would want more certainty. i am very focused on the person immediately if i am interested, but the interactive elements of communicating that still have all of the fickle push-pull afraid to get hurt elements of a fear type that hasn't seen perfected his own system for being his best.
sometimes those things feel too much like a promise, and promises can be scary because we are so worried and overconcerned with CERTAINTY rather than with present personal truth. .

I think all this emphasis on "certainty" has more to do with your Jness than your 5ness.

INTP 5s understand that there is no such thing as certainty. We only get antsy when we're asked to provide it, in the face of all the overwhelming evidence that it doesn't exist....

 

[rav3n]

Can someone please explain how avoidance of issues can be fluffed up to sound romantically fulfilling?

 

[Thalassa]

Can someone please explain how avoidance of issues can be fluffed up to sound romantically fulfilling?

It isn't romantically fulfilling.

It's mysterious.

All ENFPs are possibly insane.

 

[rav3n]

It isn't romantically fulfilling.

It's mysterious.

All ENFPs are possibly insane.

 

[the state i am in]

I think all this emphasis on "certainty" has more to do with your Jness than your 5ness.

INTP 5s understand that there is no such thing as certainty. We only get antsy when we're asked to provide it, in the face of all the overwhelming evidence that it doesn't exist....

i've stumbled a few times lately in using this word, but your presupposition is just annoying.

5s still want completeness. they want more information. it's an impulse, an absolute limit, a desire for more. just because e5s do not see certainty as an obtainable object or a state to reach doesn't mean that it doesn't characterize an impulse. its absence is something that one must come to terms with and continually maintain a position of acceptance towards. whether it is a more complete model or a better story, the desire for better information quality is always there. e5s are driven by a search for knowledge and by an attack on the conditions of even the possibility for knowledge. but that never mediates their desire for knowledge, for information quality, for expertise and mastery.

Can someone please explain how avoidance of issues can be fluffed up to sound romantically fulfilling?

some people are better than others at actually understanding what the issues are for other people. that changes both the motivations and the methods when considering what you can accomplish in the relationship and why you might want to do so. there are also many aspects of romantically fulfilling that you might not recognize but are nonetheless quite there.

 

[A window to the soul]

I haven't read the entire thread, so I'll throw in my two cents based on the original post.

To the OP: In a nutshell, it doesn't sound good. I think he sounds broken due to recent failed relationship(s). It sounds like he enjoys your company, but he's not interested in pursuing a serious relationship with you at the moment. What's obvious to me, is that you are not on the same page. You're feeling levels of chemistry that he's not. We can safely say that because he's not pursuing or reciprocating appropriately.

As you probably know, you can not fix somebody coming out of a bad relationship. I think autonomy is your best course of action; for both of you. I think he is going to need a lot of space to work out issues.

INTP's are prone to move slowly and do things on a whim. I wouldn't worry too much about last minute planning. Or at least, I don't think you should be offended by that.

 

[Thalassa]

I feel so freakin' sorry for every woman on this forum interested in an INTx. Everything just looks so bleak. No wonder we run into the arms of boring, unsuitable ISTx.

 

[A window to the soul]

I feel so freakin' sorry for every woman on this forum interested in an INTx. Everything just looks so bleak. No wonder we run into the arms of boring, unsuitable ISTx.

ISTx are not boring. Only the unhealthy ones.

A lot of what I read through in this thread from the INTP's, describes an unhealthy person and has nothing to do with a healthy INTP or INTJ. My Dad is a classic example of a healthy INTP. It's like night and day. The reality is, this man is unhealthy and the sooner the OP comes to terms with that, the better off she will be. Reread all of her posts, if you have any doubts. The OP is setting herself up for disappointment. She will not have to go through this crap with a healthy man. I know.

Gawd, I'm always shocked to realize how warped and selfish people's thinking is. So you're INTx, so what?? You're not a bunch of friggin babies! We don't need someone to hold our hands and walk us through life. Sometimes we need a dose of cold cruel reality, like a threat that you're gonna leave us for someone else if we don't commit. That's not a game, that's not mean, it's reality baby! People have a right to get frustrated and move on with their lives. Who the hell do we think we are?

 

[INTP]

I feel so freakin' sorry for every woman on this forum interested in an INTx.

only an isfj would do that based on a single case

 

[Rex]

To the OP: In a nutshell, it doesn't sound good. I think he sounds broken due to recent failed relationship(s). It sounds like he enjoys your company, but he's not interested in pursuing a serious relationship with you at the moment. What's obvious to me, is that you are not on the same page. You're feeling levels of chemistry that he's not. We can safely say that because he's not pursuing or reciprocating appropriately.

So you think its the right thing to leave a guy that you like, that likes you but is to scared to move fast?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMxE6zaF7iA&feature=related

Agentfurria: If you enjoy your time with him keep seeing him.
ofc you can`t wait for ages but thats something you can`t plan on doing.

 

[A window to the soul]

So you think its the right thing to leave a guy that you like, that likes you but is to scared to move fast?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2AGwlQCojk&feature=related

Agentfurria: If you enjoy your time with him keep seeing him.

Please reread the facts and let me know if you still want to ask that question. The pertinent details are located in the first post of this thread.

My simple answer to your question is "no." I'm INTP and I understand how slow I move in a relationship, but I would never tell someone the things that the OP's man is telling her. It breaks the unwritten INTP code of dignity, self-respect, and strong inherent desire to overcome any obstacles on my own without a bunch of "hand holding". I would also not think of hopping from one serious relationship to another without having planty of autonomy first. That's a natural style for me, but then, I'm a healthy person. I'm not dependant or codependant like a lot of people seem to be.

I would not be interested in a guy like the OP has described. He sounds pathetic and NOT your healthy INTx.

 

[Rex]

hes a INTJ i think.

And you can forget my last post.

You just seemed a bit hard.