I have a feeling that perhaps some INFP issues with INFJs may be different than ENFP ones with INFJs. Do you think that's true, or not? I think INFJs would like to reciprocally understand and respond to other people's Big Deals. I'm just not sure how to get you to verbalize them so that I can better understand them without seeming intrusive.
I do know that one of the big things is making you feel accepted for who you are first without making the person feel that that continued acceptance is based on becoming what they could be or taking the advice given. In the absence of having any practical ways to help a person who seems "stuck", we get discouraged and start feeling like the person is not looking for solutions without understanding what else is going on. Do you have any practical suggestions for coming to a better understanding of the situation without putting pressure on the person.
Well, I may not be the best INFP to ask; I don't feel representative of the INFP population.. keep in mind I am group-oriented, SO dom, 9w1. For me it's all about the harmony, and my life experience as well has shaped a particular POV oriented to align my Fi values with an Fe perspective.
So with that disclaimer in place:
I think Fi has a hard time expressing itself. Words almost seem insufficient to do the feelings justice. Just as you sometimes decide that conflict is just not worth entering into, I often give up trying to verbally construct the dynamic of feelings that I am currently reflecting on. It just ... comes out wrong. When faced with a great deal of emotional intensity, I have to try a bunch of times to have a hope of even being close to getting it "right".
And sometimes, it just comes out bad, which upsets people, because Fi doesn't always verbalize in a politically-correct way, and instead of people realizing they're hearing a rough draft, they assume this is the final copy. So people get upset, and then I have to deal with them being upset, instead when I'm upset ... you see the pattern.
If you truly want to overcome any INFP communication issues, as advice, I would suggest trying to listen and simply empathize rather than try to fix or sympathize. Until the intensity of Fi expression has passed ... don't take anything at face value, don't critique it, don't offer suggestions ... just hear it. Nod your head, pat a hand, give Fi some space.
Most Fi users will then be able to work through their own solutions from that space.
At that point, where the Fi user is clearly engaging Te, trying to fix their own stuff, your suggestions are hugely embraced and eagerly contemplated. Ne welcomes that variety of possibilities for solutions, gets excited at the prospect of "light at the end of the tunnel" and can swing back to optimistic implementation.
Using the lovely "light" metaphor earlier in thread, if you try to change our colour, prematurely influence our colour, we will not truly feel valued or listened to. You do not know what is best for us, and since we don't generally assume to know what is best for you, it is presumptuous to think you would know better.
This works well on INFJs too. We're pretty good as listening to other people and I've often found that Fi users will talk and talk to me. However, there often doesn't seem to be that question asking shift where they say, "Now, how about you?" and start asking questions. I feel rude breaking in and just talking about myself, particularly if I'm not sure the other person is all that interested (again that thing about wanting to be sure we're really welcome and that the other person WANTS to understand us rather than is just humouring us.)
I've noticed this as well. I often think Fi users want me to want to share voluntarily, without being prompted, whereas I would prefer being prompted so that I know they want to know.
LOL, I have the same complaint. I listen so much, and often wonder "when do I get my turn...?"
When Fi users talk and talk to you, it's usually because we've been wandering in the desert, listening to lots of other people, and waiting for our turn to have a drink too, we are parched and thirsty ...
But you know what's kind of sad ... we know we are over-sharing in these situations, but it just feels good to be listened to for a change. Generally I will sense I am boring someone or their patience or attention-span is drying up, so I switch it over to talk about you. But, for those moments, it feels good.
Yes, Fi users want you to share voluntarily. To translate into Fe terms, if Fi breaches the topic of one's own feelings, then implicit permission is given to you to divulge your own feelings, especially as related (by topic matter) to what the Fi user reveals.
Agreed.
Think of it in terms of Fi precision: in Fi terms, there is no adequate question that can be asked. To Fi, "How are you?" is merely another form of "Hello" and not a "real question," because experience proves that most people who express an interest in how we feel don't want the "real answer." So to Fi, there is no good question and no good answer, so it's best to just say how one feels if one feels moved to do so.
Agreed.
You might wonder how to "cut off" someone from endlessly nattering on about their feelings and experiences. The most effective is to simply affirm their feelings and maybe offer a practical solution if one is obvious - but affirming their feelings is enough. Don't try to explain how their feelings are wrong or inappropriate or shouldn't be expressed: this will extend the interaction into even more annoying territory, just say, "Yeah, that really sucks," or whatever is appropriate.
@bold: Yes, you don't have to agree with them; just acknowledge them is a better word.
Another way is to divulge your own feelings, should you believe it appropriate to do so, and don't wait for them to ask: the mere fact that they're divulging feelings means the topic is opened, and they'll not be upset should you discuss your own experience.
Agreed, unless we know we'll just start talking about you again and never get back to "me". This happens ALL.THE.TIME ... IRL.
A final way is to be more "INTJ" about it, and simply cut off communication, tersely. If you wait for a polite exit, the opportunity will rarely arise, because it relies upon the other having your sense of politeness. A simple, "Excuse me, but I have to go," should work OK.
Oh my, don't say that. I will already know I am over-staying my welcome, and a nice hug or shoulder-squeeze, a check of the watch and an empathic "I would really love to hear more, and I have enjoyed sharing with you, but I do have to go" warms my heart in a way that "Excuse me, but I have to go" never will. That response would tend to make me feel that I have burdened you with my speaking, and generally will ensure I don't talk much with you in the future. (Although I guess if that's what you want, that's what you'll get.)
Edit: or, more to the point I will make a mental note: I can talk to uumlau about topic X for approximately 4 minutes until he starts to fidget, shift his eyes away from time to time and appear bored, so I will cut it short before we get there next time.
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The reality is that most people don't want to hear what you really think or feel ... so a special person who truly listens is a valuable commodity.
uumlau's other suggestions there have merit, but I feel weary all of a sudden to comment on them ... I feel like the dance is a little more complicated than he outlines, but it's a great, insightful post.
Off to make dinner; I must need some protein.
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