Harry Potter and MBTI

[Aleksei]

no he doesn't want to save the world does he? He simply wants to get rid of Voldemort not because of his take over the world plan. He knows how dangerous, evil, cruel and hurtful Vol is. He has 1st hand experience.

You just repeated what I said in a roundabout way. Voldemort is hurtful to others. Harry therefore wants to get rid of Voldemort so he won't hurt others anymore.

Anyone could be self absorbed. Fi does not imply self absorbed selfishness.

Fi implies reliance on internal values. Ti users could be self-absorbed as well, but in a more haughty intellectual manner. Fi users with egotistical values are just capricious and stubbornly want to get what they want all the time.

I don't use my Fe the same way others do. Each one could use his/her functions the way they are inclined to. It is obvious that you are making relations to your Fi and Harry's Fi and seeing differences. So you simply believe that Harry couldn't be possibly an Fi user.

No, not at all. I'm just pointing out that Fi isn't universally good and idealistic. My argument for Harry's lack of Fi is that he doesn't display a preferential value set. He's just uniformly sympathetic.

It is ESTPs who are naturally heroic and brave. Not ISFP. I've seen over and pover and over again ESTP being pissed off and take actions when people around them whether they like them or not are treated unfairly.

So your point actually proves that he is an ISFP. Not an ESTP. ESTP would not wait or does not have to wait till his parents get killed to take on a mission to bring down an asshole. An ISFP would.

Way to fail at reading comprehension. My point here was that even an ESTP would not bask in the spotlight under such bleak circumstances; nothing to do with his heroic tendencies.

Harry was pushed in to that destiny. This is why he became a hero.

Outright falsehood. He had no fucking idea what his destiny was until like the end of the fifth book, but every single book revolved around how he would take it upon himself to rid the school of some menace or another. Of course they were all Voldemort-related, but he did not know that.

Furthermore, an Fi user would be highly liable to run away from said destiny out of fear, since it spelled almost certain death. He accepted it was upon him to kill Voldemort, because somebody had to. Voldemort was hurting innocent people.

 

[JocktheMotie]

One major reason Harry Potter wasn't the ideal hero (or admirable hero) was, he sucked at figuring things out. He needed Hermione or Dumbledore. He had shitty Ti.

And being a person who has well developed Ti, depends on it and loves it made me itch at the fact that Harry was so bad at it and didn't use it. Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

It's like when a character on TV or book can't figure out something which is soooooooooooo simple. I am sure you must have had this experience. but what I and others fail to realize is that although it must be easy for you, it must not be easy for others.

Haha, you know I've thought this too. Couldn't stand how inept he was. I've always found other characters to be far more interesting.

 

[Riva]

Haha, you know I've thought this too. Couldn't stand how inept he was. I've always found other characters to be far more interesting.

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I was soooooooooooo freaking annoyed by him. Arghhhhhhhh!

And yes I especially liked Hermione's skills in that arena.

 

[Aleksei]

One major reason Harry Potter wasn't the ideal hero (or admirable hero) was, he sucked at figuring things out. He needed Hermione or Dumbledore.

...Neither of which is a Ti user, nor have you shown that anything he couldn't figure out required Ti.

 

[Riva]

You just repeated what I said in a roundabout way. Voldemort is hurtful to others. Harry therefore wants to get rid of Voldemort so he won't hurt others anymore.

Read it again till you get what I am trying to say. urghhhh! This is clearly miscommunication and my fingers are not as fast as I want them to be to be typing things over and over again.

Fi implies reliance on internal values. Ti users could be self-absorbed as well, but in a more haughty intellectual manner. Fi users with egotistical values are just capricious and stubbornly want to get what they want all the time.

I think we can all agree on the fact that Harry is not. So it goes to prove that this point you are making about egotistical Fi users cannot be applied to Harry.

No, not at all. I'm just pointing out that Fi isn't universally good and idealistic. My argument for Harry's lack of Fi is that he doesn't have a preferential value set. He's just uniformly heroic.

He is kind. Not uniformly heroic. He make personal sacrifices and feeling based sacrifices (I am not talking about his lie here) all the time. Now that is kindness and that ISFPs are.

If he was uniformly heroic and was an ESTP he would have used his Fe and fame to run a hate campaign against Slytherine as a whole. Like Hitler did against the Jews (but lets not please argue on that here. I am only using an example).

I know I would have. The way Slytherine treated him was quite nasty. If Harry was a ESTP atleast one or two people would have got a curse up his ass.

And mind you, ESTPs are bloody aggressive when they have to be. Harry was never aggressive.

Way to fail at reading comprehension. My point here was that even an ESTP would not bask in the spotlight under such bleak circumstances; nothing to do with his heroic tendencies.

Now I get it.

Outright falsehood. He had no fucking idea what his destiny was until like the end of the fifth book, but every single book revolved around how he would take it upon himself to rid the school of some menace or another. Of course they were all Voldemort-related, but he did not know that.

Dude, that bugger killed his parents. I think you can understand his sentiment and his drive. He doe not need a destiny book to tell him, to take revenge from Voldemort. No one would need one.

Furthermore, an Fi user would be highly liable to run away from said destiny out of fear, since it spelled almost certain death. He accepted it was upon him to kill Voldemort, because somebody had to. Voldemort was hurting innocent people.

 

[Riva]

...Neither of which is a Ti user, nor have you shown that anything he couldn't figure out required Ti.

Read the fucking book. Believe me you'd love it. And there are more than enough points on this.

 

[Aleksei]

He is kind. Not uniformly heroic. He make personal sacrifices and feeling based sacrifices (I am not talking about his lie here) all the time.

Which is... Fe! Fe is, as I have said over and over, defined by kindness. Fi is kind only when its values demand it.

Now that is kindness and that ISFPs are.

Not all ISFPs are kind - this is a very rosy picture of the type. Any type can be unhealthy, and unhealthy Fi-dominants would tend towards selfishness and neediness. Sacrificing the personal in particular is Fe-oriented, as Fi is a trait defined by personally-held values - while self-sacrifice could be one of these values in theory, Fe is far more likely as it is a part of the function's goddamn definition.

If he was uniformly heroic and was an ESTP he would have used his Fe and fame to run a hate campaign against Slytherine as a whole. Like Hitler did against the Jews (but lets not please argue on that here. I am only using an example).

Says who, you? Are all ESTPs exactly the same person? Is, say, Al Capone (ESTP) the same person as Madonna (ESTP)?

Dude, that bugger killed his parents. I think you can understand his sentiment and his drive. He doe not need a destiny book to tell him, to take revenge from Voldemort. No one would need one.

So, the Basilisk killed his parents too? No, he went after the Basilisk in Book 2 because he felt the need to save the school from it. He didn't know, he couldn't know that the Basilisk was controlled by the spirit of Voldemort. Therefore his quest was not one of personal vengeance. In book 1 he suspected the Sorcerer's Stone was meant to be delivered to Voldemort, but a look at his thought process shows that even there he wasn't driven by a desire for revenge either. He just felt the need to save everyone from a dangerous lunatic.

You heard right. You don't seem to get that Fi isn't a heroic function, it's a values-oriented function. It is much rarer for an Fi-dominant to care enough about the world to save it at great risk to themselves, than it is for a strong Fe user.

Read the fucking book. Believe me you'd love it. And there are more than enough points on this.

You can make false inferrences of that sort all you like, but do show how they are Ti users. Hermione is very planned and meticulous, Te. Her feeling is also of an Fi bent, personal moralistic values-led crusades (such as her campaign for house elf rights). She's ISTJ. Dumbledore, likewise, is essentially a stereotypical INTJ. He expresses his Te in a rather gentle way, but this seems to be largely a part of his mask - he still focuses far more on the organization and planning (Te) of Harry's destiny than the logic of it (Ti)..

 

[Riva]

and unhealthy Fi-dominants would tend towards selfishness and neediness. Sacrificing the personal in particular is Fe-oriented, as Fi is a trait defined by personally-held values - while self-sacrifice could be one of these values in theory, Fe is far more likely as it is a part of the function's goddamn definition.

Is Harry Potter unhealthy?

Is he selfish?

WTF man?

Have you even read the book or watched the film??????

Says who, you? Are all ESTPs exactly the same person? Is, say, Al Capone (ESTP) the same person as Madonna (ESTP)?

No and i never said they were. But both Al and Madonna know how to manipulate people. Madonna with popularity Al with fear and popularity.

And what I was trying to say was if Harry was a ESTP, he would sure know how to be a bit pushy. Which he was not.

So, the Basilisk killed his parents too?

My gosh man... you would use this to prove a point?

No basilisk (cool name) didn't kill his parents. And Harry didn't kill the basilisk because it did. He was simply defending himself.

If he could have talked to the thingy he would have. But I have a feeling that the basilisk wasn't the talkative type.

You heard right. You don't seem to get that Fi isn't a heroic function, it's a values-oriented function. It is much rarer for an Fi-dominant to care enough about the world to save it at great risk to themselves, than it is for a strong Fe user.

Lolz... he wasn't saving the world as much as he was getting rid of a personal threat (people could disagree I understand) and getting revenge.

Ahaaaaa...

Why didn't I think of this before? And don't you see. Which would have a tendency to take revenge? Fe or Fi?

I am proving a point on Fi. I am not implying that neither Fe users nor Fi users are revengeful. Just asking a question as to what has a bigger tendency.

 

[FalseHeartDothKnow]

I never said nor meant non-Fi users are emotionless, that would be completely and utterly wrong, apologies if it seemed that way. I said he uses more Fi in 3rd year DADA, not some other functions which were suggested, hence why his Fi dom teacher comes in handy.

On Harry, not a lot of people will talk those who think ESTP round, and to those, I admire your conviction in your beliefs, and it may turn out to be correct, but IMHO, ISFP seems more fitting. Good luck sorting this out, if anyone needs book quotes for backing either side, I'd be happy to help if I can.

 

[Aleksei]

Is Harry Potter unhealthy?

Is he selfish?

WTF man?

Reading comprehension fail. Again. II said nothing about Harry (whom all this fucking time I've been arguing is an Fe user). I was correcting the rosy picture you have of ISFPs, which in actuality corresponds more to ISFJs.

No and i never said they were. But both Al and Madonna know how to manipulate people. Madonna with popularity Al with fear and popularity.

And what I was trying to say was if Harry was a ESTP, he would sure know how to be a bit pushy. Which he was not.

Why would he know how to be pushy? Who says all ESTPs are pushy? Moreover, ESTPs are not naturally a consistently manipulative type. Al Capone, incidentally, did not manipulate with popularity at all - only with fear. He manipulated with INFAMY, which is far from the same thing as popularity.

My gosh man... you would use this to prove a point?

No basilisk (cool name) didn't kill his parents. And Harry didn't kill the basilisk because it did. He was simply defending himself.

He was defending others, the catalyst being when Ginny (who was not romantically involved with him at the time and he barely knew) was attacked. There are countless examples like this of disinterested heroics by him in the book, such as when he saved Hermione (which, note, was not his friend and had been insufferable to him and Ron earlier on) from the troll.

Lolz... he wasn't saving the world as much as he was getting rid of a personal threat (people could disagree I understand) and getting revenge.

Harry's own actions and statements prove otherwise. He was never interested in revenge, otherwise he would have killed Voldemort on the spot when he reached the Sorcerer's Stone. His only motivation is a desire to keep his friends from harm. He flies into a rage and gets pissed off primarily when Voldemort harms someone. Note that he didn't try to kill Voldemort on the spot in The Sorceror's Stone, which he would have if he were vengeance-driven. Rather, he only reaches towards that when Voldemort grows in strength and starts killing people off, starting with Cedric Diggory.

 

[Riva]

Reading comprehension fail. Again. II said nothing about Harry (whom all this fucking time I've been arguing is an Fe user). I was correcting the rosy picture you have of ISFPs, which in actuality corresponds more to ISFJs.

Do you have short term memory loss. I was using that point to prove.... nevermind you'll forget this too. Probably argue about it too.

He was defending others, the catalyst being when Ginny (who was not romantically involved with him at the time and he barely knew) was attacked. There are countless examples like this of disinterested heroics by him in the book, such as when he saved Hermione (which, note, was not his friend and had been insufferable to him and Ron earlier on) from the troll.

Gosh...

He simply felt guilty. As I recall Ron said something to hurt her feelings. He shared Rons attitude towards Hermione. Felt the guilt. When to see that was wrong. And there was a troll in the bloody bathroom. They were not expecting to kick the troll in the but and save Hermione's ass.

they went to tell Hermione that there was a Troll at the school. Get your ass back in your room where you'd be save.

Now if he went to kick the troll's ass and save the girl, then he would have been a ESTP. :workout:

But,

you'd probably forget why I am talking about the troll and ask me why I brought that point up.

he would have killed Voldemort on the spot when he reached the Sorcerer's Stone

Again I must add that you are forgetting why we are arguing about. You shared the sentiment that ISFPs are not heroic (Fi users). I did not agree. And i was also giving you points as to the possibility of how Harry (if not being heroic) could have simply be doing what he was doing for revenge.

 

[Poki]

Is someone taking score and marking each tree?

 

[Rainne]

HP - ISFP, he uses Se a lot lol
Hermoine - ISTJ w/ who uses Ne occassionally
Ron - ESFP
Draco - ENTx
Luna - INFP

Voldemort- ENTJ
Snape - INTJ
Dumbledore - INFJ

 

[Aleksei]

Do you have short term memory loss. I was using that point to prove....

That he's Fi? Bad job, all that proves is he's not an unhealthy Fi (feeding my side of the argument incidentally), not that he's not Fe.

He simply felt guilty. As I recall Ron said something to hurt her feelings. He shared Rons attitude towards Hermione.

...Ron's attitude towards Hermione? Oh, you mean complete annoyance and revulsion? No, I wouldn't say he shared that. Harry's (Tertiary Fe) automatic impulse was to feel concern for this strange and infuriating girl who meant nothing to him (and thus go out of his way to save her), whereas Ron's (Auxiliary Fi) was to save his own ass. He only very reluctantly followed Harry.

Felt the guilt. When to see that was wrong. And there was a troll in the bloody bathroom. They were not expecting to kick the troll in the but and save Hermione's ass.

they went to tell Hermione that there was a Troll at the school. Get your ass back in your room where you'd be save.

Now if he went to kick the troll's ass and save the girl, then he would have been a ESTP. :workout:

No - indeed, what he did was itself proof of Fe. He went completely out of his way to save someone who meant absolutely nothing to him, who had no personal value to him. He essentially did get in there to save the girl, despite the girl being insufferable and annoying towards him earlier.

But,

you'd probably forget why I am talking about the troll and ask me why I brought that point up.

I think your best bet here is looking into the mirror. It's you who's dodging the issue, with baseless ad homs like this one.

Again I must add that you are forgetting why we are arguing about. You shared the sentiment that ISFPs are not heroic (Fi users). I did not agree.

With you so far...

And i was also giving you points as to the possibility of how Harry (if not being heroic) could have simply be doing what he was doing for revenge.

And I conclusively demonstrated you were wrong. At no point did he show an interest in revenge, nor did he take it when the chance was presented to him in a silver platter in book 1. His motivation was, consistently, an interest to save others -- Fe.

 

[miss fortune]

the fact that you care so much when the rest of us have worked it out quite well is quite disturbing, A

 

[Aleksei]

HP - ISFP, he uses Se a lot lol

ESTP. See the last few pages of debate.

Draco - ENTx

ENTJ

Dumbledore - INFJ

INTJ. Fe is a mask, which starts coming off around book 5 and is wholly exposed after his death.

 

[Glycerine]

the fact that you care so much when the rest of us have worked it out quite well is quite disturbing, A

Whatever, I can't quite imagine you, Halla, StellarRenegade, PettyCure to be ANYTHING like Harry. Wouldn't you guys be more like the badass, live-action, superhero? OOhhh OOOhhh, the main dude from the new Star Trek movie.

 

[Aleksei]

It's plausible that Rowling meant to write an ISFP character, but she came out with an Se-dom who oozes Fe out of the goddamn pores instead. The fact he's not a normal ESTP doesn't mean he isn't an ESTP. You wouldn't in a million years confuse me for Stalemate, for example.

 

[miss fortune]

Whatever, I I can't quite imagine you, Halla, StellarRenegade, PettyCure to be ANYTHING like Harry. Wouldn't you guys be more like the badass, live-action, superhero? OOhhh OOOhhh, the main dude from the new Star Trek movie.

totally! Harry doesn't act with NEARLY the same recklessness that any sensible ESTP should react with in such circumstances!

any sensible ESTP when highly stressed and in a charged situation wouldn't bother thinking through actions first... they'd charge valdemort and beat his ass in a fist fight!

this is what disturbs me so much about these insistances

 

[Riva]

This has got to stop man. You sure has short term memory loss.

That he's Fi? Bad job, all that proves is he's not an unhealthy Fi (feeding my side of the argument incidentally), not that he's not Fe.

I must repeat you have memory loss. And you are arguing for me now not against me. But you don't realize it and has such a bad memory and logic you think -

And I conclusively demonstrated you were wrong.

You are one hell of a grandma.

----

Nevertheless I'll remind you what the hell happened.

You - ISFPs are not heroic.
Me - you cannot arrive at a conclusion as such merely by his type.
You - ISFPs are not heroic. ISFPs are egotistical and slefish.
Me - . Again you cannot arrive at a conclusion as such merely by his type.
You - AHaaaaaaaaaaaa! you just proved my point.


Me after utter shock, taking my time off and catching my breath thinks -

*Since this guy vehemently believes that Fi users are cowards and too selfish to help anyone might as well use a different point to prove him wrong*

But meanwhile clever you makes another point.

You - Harry is unhealthy.
Me - Have you read the fucking book man or atleast watched the film?.
You - Harry in unhealthy and selfish.
Me - Proves harry isn't unhealthy.
You - Ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! and says -

That he's Fi? Bad job, all that proves is he's not an unhealthy Fi (feeding my side of the argument incidentally), not that he's not Fe.