[INTP] The INTP and Feelings

[htb]

The main thing is to have the coffee.

When you asked the first time, did you hold out your cupped hands?

 

[wildcat]

When you asked the first time, did you hold out your cupped hands?

I forgot.

 

[htb]

I forgot.

To cup your hands, or altogether?

 

[Xander]

I went to the cafe.

I said coffee.
I did not have the coffee.

I said what is it now.
She said you don't say coffee in this establishment. You say coffee please.

Ok.

I said coffee please.
If she says I have to crawl on the floor, I crawl on the floor.
Big deal.
The main thing is to have the coffee.

Why crawl on the floor? When the system requires you to crawl on the floor you have two options, to crawl or to move to a different system. Previously you chose the latter, why the change of behaviour? Surely the coffee cannot be that good, though on occasion I must admit I've crawled for similar but that's only when I really want the coffee and I really cannot be bothered to move to another system.

 

[Athenian200]

Why crawl on the floor? When the system requires you to crawl on the floor you have two options, to crawl or to move to a different system. Previously you chose the latter, why the change of behaviour? Surely the coffee cannot be that good, though on occasion I must admit I've crawled for similar but that's only when I really want the coffee and I really cannot be bothered to move to another system.

This shows two different INTP perspectives. One of them has little self-respect and will do what's asked of them to maintain stability and get what they want for the moment, and another seems more careful about what they'll tolerate from others and what they won't.

It seems like the emotions don't work the same way between INTP's... but it does seem like some of them have stronger "F" than others, perhaps for reasons independent of their type. The development of inferior/tertiary seems to be the most inconsistent trait between members of the same type.

 

[Garivande]

I went to the cafe.

I said coffee.
I did not have the coffee.

I said what is it now.
She said you don't say coffee in this establishment. You say coffee please.

Ok.

I said coffee please.
If she says I have to crawl on the floor, I crawl on the floor.
Big deal.
The main thing is to have the coffee.

My version would be:

I went to the cafe.
I said coffee.
I did not have coffee.
Cafe malfunctions. Try other cafe.

When I was a student my classmates etc built this image about me being cold and void of emotions, when I discovered this I couldn't understand why. I thought of myself as being very emotional...! But they were actually convinced they could say cruel things to me (and they did), things that if I had said it back would have made them cry or throw things at me or never speak to me again, and assumed that I would not feel hurt or angry, because "I had no feelings"...!
I spent a lot of time wondering what in my appearance and behaviour had made them think this?
Sure, when they told me things that hurt me - I never showed it (wouldn't give them the satisfaction of knowing how well they hit the target, would I?). So I assumed that in some way they were right. I had no visible emotions.

 

[Xander]

This shows two different INTP perspectives. One of them have little self-respect and will do what's asked of them to maintain stability and get what they want for the moment, and another seem more exacting about what they'll take and what they won't.

It seems like the emotions don't work the same way between INTP's... but it does seem like perhaps some of them have stronger "F" than others, perhaps for reasons independent of their type. The development of inferior/tertiary seems to be the most inconsistent trait between the members of same type.

That's why I started to look into the enneagram in context of my MBTI type. The whole 9 thing nailed it for me as to why I'm different to other INTPs. In combination with 6 influences and a social subtype the clarity of picture I got was bang on.

I think that was one of the few times I got the "am I looking into a mirror or what" when I chatted to Crazy from INTPc. Two INTP 9s! It was interestingly freaky.

 

[Xander]

When I was a student my classmates etc built this image about me being cold and void of emotions, when I discovered this I couldn't understand why. I thought of myself as being very emotional...! But they were actually convinced they could say cruel things to me (and they did), things that if I had said it back would have made them cry or throw things at me or never speak to me again, and assumed that I would not feel hurt or angry, because "I had no feelings"...!
I spent a lot of time wondering what in my appearance and behaviour had made them think this?
Sure, when they told me things that hurt me - I never showed it (wouldn't give them the satisfaction of knowing how well they hit the target, would I?). So I assumed that in some way they were right. I had no visible emotions.

Ooo me too. You know what I figured out? Hurting other people is part of having feelings. Seems odd but it was an extrapolation from "You can't please all of the people all of the time".

 

[miked277]

It seems like the emotions don't work the same way between INTP's... but it does seem like some of them have stronger "F" than others, perhaps for reasons independent of their type. The development of inferior/tertiary seems to be the most inconsistent trait between members of the same type.

i think that the "flavor" of an intp is based on their upbringing/parents/environment. so, those raised in a strong Fe environment might have developed a stronger Fe earlier than most intps. or, if an intp is raised in an environment that promotes the Ti, Ne at the expense of Si or Fe then you might get the "extreme" intp.

of course, specific to the posters here, age comes into play on how developed certain personality aspects are.

anyways, yeah.

 

[Garivande]

Hurting other people is part of having feelings.

I'm not sure I understand that. I thought I was being sensitive when I tried not to hurt others, while my "emotional" friends could - ever so deliberately - set out to hurt someone else...!?
Sure, I might hurt someone without knowing/noticing it, but I would never do it on purpose!

 

[Xander]

I'm not sure I understand that. I thought I was being sensitive when I tried not to hurt others, while my "emotional" friends could - ever so deliberately - set out to hurt someone else...!?
Sure, I might hurt someone without knowing/noticing it, but I would never do it on purpose!

Standing up for what you believe in or for how you feel is being emotional. There's bound to be someone who objects, logically, but to do otherwise is to be less emotional.

(Sorry should have included lucid explanation )

 

[Garivande]

i think that the "flavor" of an intp is based on their upbringing/parents/environment.

I was raised by aliens. Or rather: I was an alien brought up in an earthling family (my parents are ESTJ and ISFJ). Not sure what that's supposed to have made me... Certainly not more earthbound (although I learned to "talk and understand" earth-language), I have a very strong N.
My fathers "T" probably encouraged my own (I despiced my mother for many years for being so "F"; long before I knew about "T" and "F" of course).

I have always tried hard not to be so "I", and always ashamed of being "P" - so my first MBTI test came as a revelation to me: "there are other people like me in the world, and being 'J' is not necessarily worth more than being 'P'...!"

 

[Garivande]

Standing up for what you believe in or for how you feel is being emotional.

Hmm. I understand what you're saying, but not quite sure I agree.
I would like to be acknowledged for being emotional even though I keep all my emotions hidden (I... can see why this never happens)...
But isn't that more of an "E" vs "I" quality, rather than the "T" vs "F"...?
(Or do I miss the whole point just because I'm handicapped by being INTP!?)

 

[Xander]

Hmm. I understand what you're saying, but not quite sure I agree.
I would like to be acknowledged for being emotional even though I keep all my emotions hidden (I... can see why this never happens)...
But isn't that more of an "E" vs "I" quality, rather than the "T" vs "F"...?
(Or do I miss the whole point just because I'm handicapped by being INTP!?)

IxFx is not in your nature old boy. ESFJ is. First we walk, then we run (not meant to sound patronising but I couldn't recall the much superior quote I was trying to remember...sorry).

 

[Priam]

I'm not sure I understand that. I thought I was being sensitive when I tried not to hurt others, while my "emotional" friends could - ever so deliberately - set out to hurt someone else...!?
Sure, I might hurt someone without knowing/noticing it, but I would never do it on purpose!

I think the difference is in priorities. I would say, as a rule of thumb, that INTPs would much rather give ground to others' emotions than take up others' space with our own. It's all about placidity, ease, calm in the outside world... but that's not being true to our own emotions. Sometimes to truly engage what we're feeling, doors need to be kicked down and fires need to be set! Compassion and support are "easy" emotions (for me at least), while acknowledging and venting burning, illogical rage takes more work! In other words: it's a strain to realize that occassionally hurting others is a key component of healing your emotional self.

 

[Totenkindly]

I would say, as a rule of thumb, that INTPs would much rather give ground to others' emotions than take up others' space with our own. It's all about placidity, ease, calm in the outside world... but that's not being true to our own emotions. Sometimes to truly engage what we're feeling, doors need to be kicked down and fires need to be set! Compassion and support are "easy" emotions (for me at least), while acknowledging and venting burning, illogical rage takes more work! In other words: it's a strain to realize that occasionally hurting others is a key component of healing your emotional self.

Wonderful description.

Also, preserving autonomy partially is achieved by flexing to someone else's emotions. To release OUR emotions is to give up some control of our freedom... because the other person is bound to have some sort of reaction that will enmesh us for an indefinite duration. (The best way to preserve independence is to not motivate others to chase after us or force interactions with us... which invariably happens if we anger or hurt someone by expressing our own feelings.)

But there is a price to this freedom, as you describe. It costs us not only our own healing but sometimes also deprives others of our involvement. Sometimes there is no choice but to engage, if it's the best long-term solution, and allow emotions to play themselves out.

 

[Athenian200]

IxFx is not in your nature old boy. ESFJ is. First we walk, then we run (not meant to sound patronising but I couldn't recall the much superior quote I was trying to remember...sorry).

That reminds me of another weird thing that happens to me with some INTP's. There were a couple who would alternate between being really standoffish and rather clingy, contacting me to talk (or asking why I hadn't contacted them), and then not having any particular subject ready, expecting me to come up with something. They despised social conventions, and one actually thanked me for remembering not to start my conversation with hello or end it with goodbye (I wonder if they ever saw the irony in that?)

Another thing I see them doing a lot is presenting a situation in their lives in such a clearly sad and needy way that they elicit sympathy, and then complaining that they didn't want any. Yet if you don't show them any sympathy at all, they start to get frustrated with you although they don't express it. If you give it to them, they complain about it, but sometimes eventually appreciate it. If you validate their feelings without making it sound like validating, sometimes they balk and sometimes they accept it.

They are very idiosyncratic and individualistic. You have to really try to understand that particular INTP very carefully in order to figure out how to deal with their emotions, if they haven't developed them well enough on their own.

 

[wildcat]

To cup your hands, or altogether?

I forgot to cup my hands. But I can cup them now if you want.

 

[wildcat]

Why crawl on the floor? When the system requires you to crawl on the floor you have two options, to crawl or to move to a different system. Previously you chose the latter, why the change of behaviour? Surely the coffee cannot be that good, though on occasion I must admit I've crawled for similar but that's only when I really want the coffee and I really cannot be bothered to move to another system.

You need coffee to move to a different system.
When you have moved to a different system you need another cup of coffee.
Coffee is Alpha and Omega.

 

[lastrailway]

Why crawl on the floor? When the system requires you to crawl on the floor you have two options, to crawl or to move to a different system. Previously you chose the latter, why the change of behaviour? Surely the coffee cannot be that good, though on occasion I must admit I've crawled for similar but that's only when I really want the coffee and I really cannot be bothered to move to another system.

You need coffee to move to a different system.
When you have moved to a different system you need another cup of coffee.
Coffee is Alpha and Omega.

Except that coffee is, as wildcat says, a very important element before making any move towards any direction, things are not usually as simple as to or crawl either move to a different system. If your objective is to simply have a coffee and the system is relatively good on the whole, then you just do what you have to do to achieve the goal. If you want to change system anyways but you need what you can get from the existent system before making the move, then you do again what the system requires you to do.
It is called: play with their rules to take what you need from them.

On a side note, I can't say I'd crawl, but I certainly could go on great lengths in order to have my coffee. Especially if it's the morning coffee.