Psychoanalyze My Nemesis

[Dyslexxie]

I have this relative I struggle understanding and often clash quite badly with, and I'm curious if you guys could help me type her so that maybe I can understand her better and maybe fix this relationship drama.

She's a few years older than me and has always been fairly bossy to me, always trying to exert her dominance. When we were young her and her mom would always poke fun at my expense, always trying to brush it off as a joke when I would get upset and ask them to stop. Now that I'm older she's started to treat me less like 'the baby', but it typically feels quite condescending. We've hung out a couple of times and she can let go of that when we're one on one, but in a crowd she seems to need someone to pick on in a harmless way.

We're both incredibly stubborn people and we generally clash quite badly. I'm very contrarian a lot of the time and will fight for beliefs I know are absurd just to see how people respond, while she's very conventionally idealistic in her views, always wanting to have the popular opinion that gets the most support from peers. Like me, she's very argumentative and she hates being wrong. Her reaction to losing a fight will generally lead to some kind of manipulation so that she saves face and is still in the most favorable position. She definitely remembers when she feels people have wronged her and will hold it over their head years later.

We're both only children so we're both pretty selfish and self-absorbed, but she'll still try to maintain face because she does really wants people to like her and to see that she's a good person. I think popularity and being liked is really important to her. She doesn't handle competition well but needs to be admired so she'll either surround herself with people she can overshadow, or brag. Her dad is quite similar in that where they'll exaggerate stories (or even blatantly lie) to seem interesting and to get a sense of admiration out of others. She likes attention but wants it in the right way - she's not an attention whore for the sake of being that, but instead she wants to be popular in a very conventional way. Controversy is not her thing at all and it makes her uncomfortable.

She can definitely put aside her feelings about situations that bother her and will make amends quite publicly to display that she's the bigger person. She's a lot better than I am at pretending to like someone she hates - I think civil is the correct word here? I don't think it's necessarily conflict aversion because she gets into fights with people quite a bit and is bold enough to call them out quite openly.

I know in high school she was kind of a queen bee, but as she got older she began keeping her distance because most people aren't worth her time. She's dumped boyfriends because they weren't someone to brag to the world about. She is very sweet towards those closest to her however, but it always seems from a point of distance, and I'm not really sure how many people she's actually close to. Sometimes I get the feeling she's very lonely but I don't know if that's accurate or if I just feel that way because I really can't relate to her or understand her at all.

On her own she's often directionless and not really ambitious, but she does seem to prize security and status to a very high degree. She only drives a certain kind of car brand, she's pretty big into clothing labels and purse brands, and often talks about social class, possessions, etc. Her in-laws are fairly well off and she likes to emphasize that and their standing within the community. Beyond that I wouldn't say she has the same cutthroat thing that a lot of the other women in our family have and doesn't really seem to need to plant her flag into anything major. As long as she has her status thing, I don't think she's really the type A freakshows quite a few of us are.

I used to think she was really confident with herself but now I don't know if that's accurate. Maybe it's because I was younger and I was much more shy back then, but she has been able to open up a little if I make fun of myself. I'm really self-deprecating and joke at my own expense a lot, which seems to make her relax a little bit and feel more natural. Either way, she's quite controlled and manages her emotions and reaction well, behaving quite appropriately (unless provoked, at which point all hell breaks loose). She's gorgeous and she's gotten a lot of attention from guys, and as long as he lives up to her standards she'll feel flattered, otherwise she won't acknowledge it at all.

I'm pretty certain she exhibits a lot of Se but that's about as much as I get from her. I can't even really decide if she's introverted or extroverted really beyond that. Would you guys be able to help me with this? I do apologize if a lot of it sounds negative...I've tried to not let my perception cloud this, but that's where I've always seen her from so I don't think my view is the most accurate of her. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Kheledon]

Very interesting. Sounds to me like you're an alpha and she's some kind of beta. I know my alpha friends (ENTp-ILEs, in particular) love to get my beta "goat" by advancing absurd theories just to get me riled up. Works every time. I am a sucker for that kind of thing because it's yet another opportunity to "perform," and I find those difficult to pass up. Gives them a good laugh, and I get to laugh at myself a bit too for taking things far too literally and seriously, as I often do. Beta is quite concerned with its public image. If I had to enneagram type your relative, I'd say she's 3 or 6 dominant. That said, it's quite possible she's ENFj-EIE (like me) if she interacts with you better one-on-one. That's always EIE's forte. In groups, we have a harder time "managing" the emotional atmosphere in a way that suits us. We can certainly be vindictive when "embarrassed" or when our social standing and prestige is threatened, and we will use allies to make a scapegoat of someone in order to protect our own position in the hierarchy. That's typical beta.

From the combination of the properties of all predominant quadra traits listed above, in Beta Quadra society there arises a harsh struggle for power, for the dominant position in the system. Everyone strives upwards; all fight for the right of personal domination. Nobody wants to be on the margin or "behind" in this race. Everyone lives by the principle of "push and displace, so as not to get pushed out and displaced by others", which creates a particular kind of tension in the existence within the hierarchy. Each pulls the privileges to himself or herself, every person tries to choose a better part (and especially when the resources are rationed).

...

Beta Quadra is afraid of:
- having to part with their honor and dignity, a privileged position in society;
- being plunged into poverty, to a position without rights, being lowered in rank;
- being forced out of the privileged strata and thrown to the bottom of society;
- being demoted, deprived of rank, title, privileges and powers;
- humiliating reprisals and punishments;
- dependency on someone else's evil will;
- uncertainty concerning own social status and position, slander, libel, false accusations;
- afraid of collusions and conspiracies behind his back, of rumors, gossip, backstabbing, intrigues and betrayal;
- afraid of all that would obstruct him from surviving and restoring own social status under extreme circumstances.

Beta Quadra doesn't tolerate attacks on their social standing, on their rank, position, rights and privileges: they don't tolerate when their rights and rank advantages are being challenged, they don't tolerate familiarity in attitudes of others, in jest or serious, and can't stand ridicule that could create false impression of their inability to fend for themselves.

...

In Beta Quadra it is dangerous to become "the guilty one". The "guilty" person pays for everything and for everyone – he takes on the blame for all the misfortunes that befell his companions. He is put before a maximum of charges from all that could be possibly presented (no matter how absurd they may seem), so that later on, with the combination of all these "crimes", he can be condemned for everything at once, with a maximum of austerity "to discourage others". The "guilty" person turns into a "scapegoat" in the full sense of the word: if someone has some sins of their soul or wrongdoings on their conscience, they all unabashedly dump them on him, and he gets blamed for all the atrocities and wrong-doings – today he's the "hero of the day" and none want to take his place at the "pillar of shame".

Socionics - the16types.info - Beta Quadra: The Complex of Subservience by Stratiyevskaya

That's a lot of text, I know, so I'll leave it at that, but what you described sounds like an ENTp/ENFj conflict to me. For what that's worth.

 

[Dyslexxie]

Very interesting. Sounds to me like you're an alpha and she's some kind of beta. I know my alpha friends (ENTp-ILEs, in particular) love to get my beta "goat" by advancing absurd theories just to get me riled up. Works every time. I am a sucker for that kind of thing because it's yet another opportunity to "perform," and I find those difficult to pass up. Gives them a good laugh, and I get to laugh at myself a bit too for taking things far too literally and seriously, as I often do. Beta is quite concerned with its public image. If I had to enneagram type your relative, I'd say she's 3 or 6 dominant. That said, it's quite possible she's ENFj-EIE (like me) if she interacts with you better one-on-one. That's always EIE's forte. In groups, we have a harder time "managing" the emotional atmosphere in a way that suits us. We can certainly be vindictive when "embarrassed" or when our social standing and prestige is threatened, and we will use allies to make a scapegoat of someone in order to protect our own position in the hierarchy. That's typical beta.

I do identify with alpha more than anything, and I'm leaning more towards ILE right now (or at least as far as my interactions), so this would make sense. She's even said it herself how she doesn't get why every time we meet we clash so badly. Hmmm ENFj sounds a lot like her actually. I considered ESFp as well, but they're much more adventurous and willing to push boundaries, and that doesn't really sound like her. I would say she's fairly conventional. Not to the point where it's her main driver, but it's definitely a high ranking factor in her life. 6 is definitely in her enneagram type somewhere and I'm thinking 6w5 because they do have that inward energy, and she strikes me as fairly detached at times.

Beta Quadra doesn't tolerate attacks on their social standing, on their rank, position, rights and privileges: they don't tolerate when their rights and rank advantages are being challenged, they don't tolerate familiarity in attitudes of others, in jest or serious, and can't stand ridicule that could create false impression of their inability to fend for themselves.

This is very much like her and describes her reactions quite well.
That's excellent, thank you so much for your insight. It does make sense why we clash for sure, so at least if I can figure how how not to piss her off, maybe we won't end up fighting all the time.