[SJ] SJs (ESTJ, ISTJ, ESFJ, and ISFJ) and ADHD

[bradly00]

I know this is going to sound weird but I was wondering if any SJs have been diagnosed with ADHD? I was wondering because I'm an ESFJ with ADHD. Any comments would be most helpful.

 

[Yama]

I was diagnosed with ADHD in 5th grade for "disorganization" but that diagnosis has since been rectified.

I used to be a very messy kid; my desk at school was chaotic and I used to rush through my work during class so that I could read. Things started changing for me around 9th grade.

I've become pretty much the opposite now. I have OCPD, which became much more apparent around 12th grade. My original diagnosis was weak and rushed, and based on very little evidence, and I do not really think I met enough criteria for it in the first place. It no longer appears on my medical records.

My sister has ADD, but she's an INTP.

 

[bradly00]

i have always had ADHD. I wear something called a daytrana patch to control the symptoms it contains ritilin.

 

[Entp/infjGal]

I may be ESFJ, and never been diagnosed. But I was also very messy and disorganized (my desk/drawer were like a magic hole that things disappeared into and were never seen again!). I have always struggled with getting or staying organized. I now know it has a lot to do with having TE as my least developed function. There may be other reasons. In fact, this poor ability to be organized (or zero logistical talent as I now call it) made me sure I could not be an SFJ because they are often described as the opposite.

Another important thing, Dario Nardi found that the closest statistical match for ESFJs was the ENTP (strange!). This means that your brain resembles ENTP most of all. And they are not exactly the best at organization either. Remember that in addition to TE being so underdeveloped in you due to brain specialization (preferring FE instead), you also have NE as your tertiary.

FE doesn't help with being organized in the classical sense of the word. Being FJ just means having a very neat and refined understanding (mental organization) of the web of human interrelationships around you and the ability to manage them..you know what to do to create harmony or to get a certain result in human relationships. But it doesn't give you any power to organize time, money, work, objects.

You have Ti that can help with organizing ideas but it doesn't help with organizing stuff. Which means sometimes you can struggle with articulation as well, though not always. Because Ti is very precise and doesn't flow easily in conversation like TE because it kinda needs to look for the precise word (especially when it is not the best preferred function and struggles more to find them!)

So basically all you have going for you in terms of organization is Si. And Si is rather slow and does one thing at a time and focuses on details. I bet you don't wash spoons like others do. You more likely take too long because you wash one at a time and give each more focus and follow a precise "method" each time, making you very slow in your work generally, even if you hate it??? I am just guessing here. Either way, my point is that Si supported by TE will carry out tasks not only perfectly but also efficiently. Unsupported by TE, it may lead to a strange mixture of methodical work (slow and perfectionistic) on one hand, and great disorganization and piling on the other. You end up relying on your NE to solve problems quickly because you are in perpetual emergency mode. Which may make you think you are an ENTP or maybe even an ENFP.

However, focusing on the same work consistently for a year or so will get you to refine your Si routines and methods. You will not become as quick as an STJ but you will slowly be able to do that work with great skill in less and less time. Si is the thing in you that aims for the same (perfect) result, each time you perform a task. So you do things methodically and with high standards even when they are new. This makes you very slow. But consistent practice greatly increases your skill and allows a refinement of the routine/method and enables you get a lot done very fast after you have done it so often, it is unconscious. Those who wonder how to develop Si, I bet this is one of the ways. Find some skill you need to develop or work you need to do, and do it every day for an extended period of time. There's many aspects to Si but this is one facet of it you can consciously develop.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think that's what happens with some ESFJs, even if not all.

 

[/DG/]

Messiness/disorganization seems like a really weird criteria for ADHD. WTF.

I don't have it, but I swear my older EFJ (possibly ESFJ) brother might have it. Whenever he is doing something like watching TV or something, he is just completely and totally sucked into it. You have to yell his name repeatedly and poke him to get you to notice that you are speaking! It is really odd and I don't know anyone else who does this. I think he was actually tested for it as a kid, though, and they said he didn't. Idk.

 

[Yama]

Messiness/disorganization seems like a really weird criteria for ADHD. WTF.

I don't have it, but I swear my older EFJ (possibly ESFJ) brother might have it. Whenever he is doing something like watching TV or something, he is just completely and totally sucked it. You have to yell his name repeatedly and poke him to get you to notice that you are speaking! It is really odd and I don't know anyone else who does this. I think he was actually tested for it as a kid, though, and they said he didn't. Idk.

My sister does that, she's INTP and has ADD.

 

[/DG/]

My sister does that, she's INTP and has ADD.

DIAGNOSIS CONFIRMED. TIME 4 METHAMPHETAMINES!

 

[Yama]

DIAGNOSIS CONFIRMED. TIME 4 METHAMPHETAMINES!

#drug it up bitch

 

[Tellenbach]

There is a chapter on ADHD and autism in this book I'm reading titled "Medical Medium". This guy claims that he receives medical knowledge through divine revelation in the form of an external voice that talks to him. Yeah, it sounds weird, but it has a high rating on Amazon.

I thought some of you might find his ideas on this subject interesting:

Specifically, ADHD and autism are born from (primarily) mercury, plus aluminum, that settles in the brain's midline cerebral canal, which divides the left cerebral hemisphere from the right.

When toxic heavy metals enter this midline canal - which is supposed to be open and free - they block the electrical and metaphysical energetic transmissions between the cerebral hemispheres. This challenges the child's brain to develop alternative ways tomake that exchange happen.

Children with ADHD and autism also grow specially evolved brain neurons, especially in the frontal lobe. These facilitate communication with others and intuitive abilities for 'reading' people (e.g., being able to sense what someone is thinking and feeling).

This guy says if you can detox the heavy metals from the brain before age 18, you'll lose the symptoms. I don't have enough information to render any judgement on this guy. He may be a fraud, insane, or both so be careful.

 

[/DG/]

There is a chapter on ADHD and autism in this book I'm reading titled "Medical Medium". This guy claims that he receives medical knowledge through divine revelation in the form of an external voice that talks to him. Yeah, it sounds weird, but it has a high rating on Amazon.

I thought some of you might find his ideas on this subject interesting:

This guy says if you can detox the heavy metals from the brain before age 18, you'll lose the symptoms. I don't have enough information to render any judgement on this guy. He may be a fraud, insane, or both so be careful.

I'd advise against listening to medical advice from people claiming that it came to them from a voice speaking to them...

You do know we have modern medicine now, right? You can go down to the store to buy medicines and whatnot if you need or visit your local doctor. There is no need to ward off the evil spirits anymore. We have this thing called science now.

 

[Tellenbach]

You do know we have modern medicine now, right? You can go down to the store to buy medicines and whatnot if you need or visit your local doctor.

Yes, but the diseases and conditions he discusses are ones that do not have cures or effective treatments. He discusses autism, ADHD, fibromyalgia, Lymes Disease, chronic fatigue syndrome, and adrenal fatigue.

 

[/DG/]

Yes, but the diseases and conditions he discusses are ones that do not have cures or effective treatments. He discusses autism, ADHD, fibromyalgia, Lymes Disease, chronic fatigue syndrome, and adrenal fatigue.

You'd be better off divining your own "cures."

 

[Tellenbach]

You'd be better off divining your own "cures."

If I had one of the conditions discussed, I'd definitely try his treatments because he recommends eating fruit and drinking celery juice and some supplements. These are relatively harmless solutions and not all that expensive. What's the harm?

 

[Ursa]

If I had one of the conditions discussed, I'd definitely try his treatments because he recommends eating fruit and drinking celery juice and some supplements. These are relatively harmless solutions and not all that expensive. What's the harm?

Potentially a lot of harm, especially considering grape fruit interacts with a lot of medications, and since ingesting vitamins and supplements when it turns out you don't need them can cause poisoning. A close friend of mine got kidney stones from supplements and was told by his doctor to stop the stupid supplement diet. Supplements aren't regulated by the FDA either, so buyer beware. Most people don't know that fructose doesn't digest well either.

Just because something is a fruit, or is a supplement, does not mean it is safe. Everything is chemical when it comes down to it, and a doctor is the best person to tell you about what you should or should not putting into your body, especially based on your health history. I'm not even sure supplements absorb the same way as nutrients from real food to think of it. I've been told by a couple nurse practitioners that they don't.

If I had a condition, I wouldn't rely on something that hasn't been proved or at least tested with science, and I wouldn't rely on something that contains goodness knows what in its fillers (i.e. supplements since they aren't regulated). No cure may be better than WTF these will do to you in the long term.

 

[Entp/infjGal]

Messiness/disorganization seems like a really weird criteria for ADHD. WTF.

I don't have it, but I swear my older EFJ (possibly ESFJ) brother might have it. Whenever he is doing something like watching TV or something, he is just completely and totally sucked into it. You have to yell his name repeatedly and poke him to get you to notice that you are speaking! It is really odd and I don't know anyone else who does this. I think he was actually tested for it as a kid, though, and they said he didn't. Idk.

My sister does that, she's INTP and has ADD.

I do this too^^

And yes, disorganization is a very key symptom of ADD.

 

[Tellenbach]

Potentially a lot of harm, especially considering grape fruit interacts with a lot of medications

Grapefruits wasn't mentioned in his list of fruits; he recommends wild blueberries, raspberries, celery juice, spirulina (an algae?). You know what, I'll just check the book again and post a complete list tomorrow, lol.

since ingesting vitamins and supplements when it turns out you don't need them can cause poisoning.

This is true but very unusual; each year, on average maybe 1 or 2 people die from ingesting vitamins. There are other supplements (for weight) loss that are more dangerous, but those aren't what he recommends.

Just because something is a fruit, or is a supplement, does not mean it is safe. Everything is chemical when it comes down to it, and a doctor is the best person to tell you about what you should or should not putting into your body, especially based on your health history.

I respectfully disagree because medical doctors get about 2 weeks worth of nutritional education. The people most qualified to comment on safety of food and supplements are biochemists and nutritionists because these people know the various biochemical pathways that are affected. Medical doctors do not know that level of detail.

Sorry for the derail.

 

[Ursa]

Grapefruits wasn't mentioned in his list of fruits; he recommends wild blueberries, raspberries, celery juice, spirulina (an algae?). You know what, I'll just check the book again and post a complete list tomorrow, lol.



This is true but very unusual; each year, on average maybe 1 or 2 people die from ingesting vitamins. There are other supplements (for weight) loss that are more dangerous, but those aren't what he recommends.



I respectfully disagree because medical doctors get about 2 weeks worth of nutritional education. The people most qualified to comment on safety of food and supplements are biochemists and nutritionists because these people know the various biochemical pathways that are affected. Medical doctors do not know that level of detail.

Sorry for the derail.

Not a derail. This was an interesting conversation.

 

[/DG/]

I do this too^^

And yes, disorganization is a very key symptom of ADD.

I didn't say it wasn't. I'm just saying that it's weird that it's part of the criteria.

 

[Tellenbach]

[MENTION=26167]Ursa[/MENTION]

"What Jonathan needed most were the true brain foods: wild blueberries and other berries, apples, dates, grapes, and any other fruit that Jonathan enjoyed. Vegetables and leafy greens such as kale were also important.

For supplementation, we focused on a high dose of spirulina (mixed with coconut water for glucose and palatability) coupled with two servings of cilantro daily."

"Kale's amazing, yet it provides a fraction of the brain benefit that fruit does. And we have to be wary of the fat hiding in animal protein. This new diet, with its combination of antioxidant rich fruit sugar, lowered fats, plus spirulina and cilantro to remove heavy metals, will change Jonathan's life."

According to the medical medium:

"Three weeks into the protocol, Alberta left a message with my assistant. For the first time ever, she'd had an actual, in-depth conversation with her son. Not a monologue, a dialogue. He didn't talk at her, or cut her off, or abruptly leave the room. Instead he listened and responded, and they went back and forth like two functioning adults"