[ESFJ] Ask an ESFJ

[EJCC]

I just want her to answer the question as a person, not as an MBTI type.

Then why are you asking her in this thread? Makes your question seem very loaded, especially considering your post history regarding ESFJs. Might be better to ask via PM or VM.

 

[Showbread]

I just want her to answer the question as a person, not as an MBTI type.

Like EJCC said, you should go about approaching that a bit differently. Especially since you have open very open on other threads about thinking ESFJ is "the dumbest type". With that context in mind "How smart are you?" reads as "I already think you are an idiot, but I want to hear you try to explain why you aren't so I can disagree with you."

Also, I would like to note that Psych research indicates that literally everyone thinks they are smarter than most other people. Asking people to describe their own intelligence is pretty much pointless.

 

[RandomINTP]

I read it as "How smart are you?" because that's what I've wrote, and nothing else.
I was looking for an exception, that I may be wrong that ESFJs are the stupidest type. My bad, my bad.
I gave you the chance to prove me wrong and you threw it away like an empty can of soda. You are proving me right if you don't do this.
But then again, if you DO do it, what's gonna happen is unpredictable. How fun, I love riddles...
Another question: "Why so serious?" Take it easy, since I don't mean to offend anyone here. Also, why do you even care?

 

[EJCC]

I read it as "How smart are you?" because that's what I've wrote, and nothing else.
I was looking for an exception, that I may be wrong that ESFJs are the stupidest type. My bad, my bad.
I gave you the chance to prove me wrong and you threw it away like an empty can of soda. You are proving me right if you don't do this.
But then again, if you DO do it, what's gonna happen is unpredictable. How fun, I love riddles...

My instinct was correct: you WERE asking her as an ESFJ, and not as a person.

Another question: "Why so serious?" Take it easy, since I don't mean to offend anyone here. Also, why do you even care?

Your past several posts in this thread read as an attempt to get an ESFJ to admit that they are stupid, either intentionally or unintentionally. That intent has been obvious from the beginning, and no one responds well to that.

This is why people have accused you of being a troll. It reads as trollish.

 

[Showbread]

I read it as "How smart are you?" because that's what I've wrote, and nothing else.

IME, questions like this are never merely words. They are asked for a reason, with an expected answer already in mind.

I was looking for an exception, that I may be wrong that ESFJs are the stupidest type. My bad, my bad.
I gave you the chance to prove me wrong and you threw it away like an empty can of soda. You are proving me right if you don't do this.

That's a load of BS. If you want an exception try approaching future interactions with ESFJs differently. Identify your biases and do your best to set them aside for awhile. It's not my responsibility to take this opportunity you have so generously given me to change your perception regarding ESFJs. For one, it would be almost impossible to convince you how intelligent I am over the internet. Especially by using a subjective rating system in which I rank myself. I could literally give myself a 10/10 in every category if I chose.

I would also like to note that you unless you are very intentional, you perceive people the way you want to/already perceive them.

But then again, if you DO do it, what's gonna happen is unpredictable. How fun, I love riddles...
Another question: "Why so serious?" Take it easy, since I don't mean to offend anyone here. Also, why do you even care?

Offended is definitely not the correct word. I think annoyed is a much more accurate description. And TBH, I really don't care. I already know I'm smart, capable, and successful. If I cared what you thought I would have filled out your survey.

 

[RandomINTP]

((The quote is above and wasting space is unnecessary. -RandomINTP)).

I see. We are obviously very different. This time, I have another question for you.
What do you value most in people?
You can give me any answer. Even if you insult me, I want you to be honest.

 

[Yama]

What do you value most in people?

I value their consistency, understanding, integrity and kindness. In my friends I also value their sense of humor and loyalty.
Bonus: My favorite fictional characters are the ones who are honest and moral to a fault, like Eddard Stark from A Song of Ice and Fire. I don't know why. I just really like them.

I'm also actually not a girl by the way but that's not really important

 

[prplchknz]

Like EJCC said, you should go about approaching that a bit differently. Especially since you have open very open on other threads about thinking ESFJ is "the dumbest type". With that context in mind "How smart are you?" reads as "I already think you are an idiot, but I want to hear you try to explain why you aren't so I can disagree with you."

Also, I would like to note that Psych research indicates that literally everyone thinks they are smarter than most other people. Asking people to describe their own intelligence is pretty much pointless.

i often feel the opposite, so by that logic i'm a genius. but sometimes i feel really smart then it's proving that i'm not. yet when i feel extremely stupid i do something smart. so really i just need to live in a world of opposites. but negative opposites so everything in reality will be positive.

what's your opinion on being in charge for yourself. do you think you're better at it then other's?

i don't mean answer so i can disprove you, because i don't know maybe you're awesome at it maybe you're not plus i needed to come up with a question

 

[HongDou]

 

[Cygnus]

Why do your Duals apparently hate you?



Why does the Type community treat this phenomenon like it should make a lick of sense in the context of Duality?

 

[EJCC]

Why does the Type community treat this phenomenon like it should make a lick of sense in the context of Duality?

Why shouldn't it?

 

[Cygnus]

Why shouldn't it?

Are Duals supposed to have an initial "spark of conflict" upon first contact? Nothing I've ever seen written about Duality has ever indicated this is supposed to be a thing. All I've seen seems to indicate that you instantly recognize your Dual as "the other side of you" and it's love at first sight or something.


Moreover, why have we yet to see an equivalent shitstorm between ISTP and ENFJ in the same way we've seen associated with INTP and ESFJ?

 

[EJCC]

Are Duals supposed to have an initial "spark of conflict" upon first contact? Nothing I've ever seen written about Duality has ever indicated this is supposed to be a thing. All I've seen seems to indicate that you instantly recognize your Dual as "the other side of you" and it's love at first sight or something.

The general gist in what I've read is that people see their duals as a magnified version of their undeveloped "shadow selves" -- frustratingly immature. Some of that has just been from talking to people on the forum, and having it ring true with my experiences with INFPs (and INFPs' experience with ESTJs, etc.), but I've seen it referenced in Naomi Quenk's work.

One example from "Was That Really Me?":
[INTJ] Recognizing the Inferior Function in INTJ

In effective dominant Extraverted Sensing types, the enjoyment of sensual pleasures is natural, spontaneous, and quite consistent with their focus on the reality of the immediate environment.

In Introverted Intuitive types in the grip of inferior Extraverted Sensing, this quality takes the form of sensual excess rather than sensual pleasure. It is interesting that a number of INTJs and INFJs described themselves as becoming “self-centered” and “self-indulgent” when they are in the grip—a descriptor often projected onto well-functioning Extraverted Sensing types by INTJs and INFJs (and by other types as well).

Moreover, why have we yet to see an equivalent shitstorm between ISTP and ENFJ in the same way we've seen associated with INTP and ESFJ?

I would guess because there aren't as many ISTPs or ENFJs on typology forums -- whereas there are approximately a zillion and a half INTPs. Plus, since there are so few ESFJs relative to INTPs, that allows INTPs to roam free and bitch about ESFJs together, without anyone calling them on it. Same with INFPs complaining about ESTJs. (This forum fell victim to that mindset quite a bit in the first few years of its existence, back when it was "MBTI Central".)

 

[Yama]

Why do your Duals apparently hate you?

I dunno, I get along quite well with my INTP sister almost all of the time.

 

[Showbread]

I dunno, I get along quite well with my INTP sister almost all of the time.

One of my best friends is an INTP and we get a long very well too. I don't think duals have to have conflict.

 

[Bush]

I was looking for an exception, that I may be wrong that ESFJs are the stupidest type. My bad, my bad.
I gave you the chance to prove me wrong and you threw it away like an empty can of soda. You are proving me right if you don't do this.

lol

 

[Redbone]

What would you say is the primary difference between ESFJs and ESTJs? I've noticed that they can vibe similarly to each other, especially when the ESTJ and ESFJ are the same gender. My instinct would be that ESFJs are more focused on consensus, but that seems like a shallow and incomplete answer. So I dunno. Thoughts?

Mostly I'm asking this because I can't tell myself and [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION] apart anymore.

I'll throw in my thoughts here...I think they reveal it mostly through displays of inferior Ti and Fi. I think female ESTJs especially have a kind of awareness of how they come off to others and try to ease up on this. Sometimes a great deal depending on their enneagram and dominant instinctual variant. I have seen this in my supervisor at work. She comes off like an ESFJ but a deeper look and you can see she's nothing but ESTJ. She "works" at putting on an ESFJ suit because it helps her to be an effective supervisor and I think she has some personal values that go off in that direction. I think a lot of ESTJ have a secret core of wanting to be liked and accepted...worthy...perhaps this is their inner INFP speaking?

oh see now...i didn't read all the posts in between but yeah...pretty much in agreement with that. And hell yes, to the sentimental thing in ESTJs...my ESTJ is in the middle of that so bad right now...

 

[á´…eparted]

I don't think duals have to have conflict.

I would agree with this. I've met a number of ISTP's over the years, and while I normally feel no connection and don't know what to do with them or how to act, I never really have tension or conflict issues with them.

 

[Showbread]

What is your relations with ESTJ's and ISTJ's?

My dad is an ESTJ, and I dated an ISTJ. I also get a long with EJCC, at least on the internet. We've never met up in real life. I generally find that I have a lot in common with them, especially if they are close to my age. My ESTJ dad and I struggle because some of our values are pretty different. We run into walls while discussing issues because I'm more concerned with the people involved, and he's more concerned with making sure the answer is just or "correct".

I ran into this wall less frequently with ISTJ ex. He and I were extremely similar in a lot of ways. We had very similar stressors like inconsistency, uncertainty, etc.

What do you value most in people?

Loyalty, consistency, genuineness, and a good sense of humor. I also really appreciate people who are secure enough to be vulnerable. I like to get to know others on a pretty deep level.

 

[DreamBeliever]

When I hear ESFJ one thing that comes to my mind is "popular girl/boy" (at least the younger ones, say high school). I was wondering what you guys think about this stereotype? Does it hold any truth? Was it always easy (having Fe first in your functions stack) for you to make friends?