[NT] Would an NT ever admit (s)he's of average intelligence?

[Ginkgo]

I would really like to see how all NTs score in g (general, inclusive of all intelligences) intelligence.

 

[jimrckhnd]

Odder and odder.


That's not what I meant - I meant "chill" as in being able to cooperate with others and not cause a hold-up in production due to the failure to do so. Or alienating other excellent workers. Last summer I had a new girl there, absolutely brilliant at her job. Well, she was timid and had the "audacity" to suggest a way to approach a client's project. They ended up all cornering her in the conference room, completely attacking her personally and making a total laughingstock out of her and her idea. She ended up in tears inside my office, giving me her 2 week notice.

NTs are rarely that aggresive and while they can be brutal in attacking ideas they find suspect, they rarely get that personal about it. And perhaps the nature of techies has changed since I was in the business - a bunch of tech geeks ganging up on a girl and nobody but you rode to her resucue? Perhaps they were all homosexual or all had girlfriends (about the same odds I'd say). And it is well that you were there to protect her from those savage intellects. No doubt she was grateful. A fortunate thing for all that the client loved the idea but of course that doesn't actually mean it was a good idea. And your sure they are all NTs involved in this incident? Seems... out of character. No doubt you either are an expert at typologies or your company tests all employees. Still this is a statistical abberation.



No, what I meant to imply was the absurdity of their belief (that they'd be totally capable of ruling the world, and heh! Who needs the stupid mortals) when I'm giving them their rent money. They're all older than me, btw. With college degrees. (I'm still in college).

Ah yes. Handing them their rent money and still in college while those poor older saps have degrees. I admire the talent and drive of somebody with out conventional educational credentials that can be made a technical manager over a group of people with more experience and education. Reminds me of the Bill Gates story. And to have control over the money as well (signing those checks!). That has to feel good. I am puzzled however, most organizations have done to direct deposit to reduce costs. Just a thought.



They're smart, but they're not superior to every other human on the planet. That's where the delusion lies.

I'm done with this now. I'm not going to defend my life decisions when all I did was ask a simple yes or no question.


I don't recall anybody suggesting your life decisions needed defending but whatever. And again, most NTs don’t think they are superior to ever other person in every way. They may well regard their intellectual powers highly, but most of them are acutely aware of their deficiencies in other areas. But I will say your organization DOES seem to have alot of problems with its technical employees. I'd say you have a serious management/leadership issue there. As the old saying goes "there are no bad troops, just bad officers".

A more skeptical observer might be get the idea that some/much/most of your tale is a fantasy driven by animus and a little insecurity and but we NTs are famously not great at reading people. But one word of advice – get that sheep skin. It is unlikely that with just as HS diploma you’ll spend your entire career being the supervisor over those with bachelors and masters degrees. Possible - but unlikely.

 

[jimrckhnd]

I said my *employees* were intelligent. Not all of NT humanity.

And I'm out of here. This is a waste of time. Whether you have better things to do than nitpick and overanalyze some stranger on the internet or not, I don't care. Knock yourself out.

I thought you were already out of here? Must have been confused. But of course understanding the various Myers-Briggs typologies and NT in partiuclar as you do - you know that analysis is a large part of WHAT WE DO.

 

[jimrckhnd]

I would really like to see how all NTs score in g (general, inclusive of all intelligences) intelligence.

I think someplace in this thread I found some literature that suggests they do. Assuming that NTs do trend above average in various measures of cognitive abilities (lets stipulate for the sake of arguments) the question that comes to mind is if NT type is an artifact of intelligence. Having a certain set of intellectual skills do they then adapt there personalities to take advantage? Would an NT with average to below average intelligence be at a horrible disadvantage if they didn't have the intellectual horsepower to detect those patterns, use logic, conduct analysis, etc. and thus it is unlikely you'd find NT types with below average intelligence. Depending on how much you think personality is genetic it is possible that the same genes that express NTism occur with genes express above average cognitive abilities. I'm skeptical of genetic determininism but I'm no expert. My sneaking suspicion is that there is a tendency for NTs to use the tools they have and they and the people around them shape there personalities.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I am of average intelligence. After all, there are so many freaking NT's around.

 

[Not_Me]

Last summer I had a new girl there, absolutely brilliant at her job. Well, she was timid and had the "audacity" to suggest a way to approach a client's project. They ended up all cornering her in the conference room, completely attacking her personally and making a total laughingstock out of her and her idea. She ended up in tears inside my office, giving me her 2 week notice.

That's an extremely dysfunctional group, but it's not related to type. They sounded like an insecure bunch who had a need to diminish others in order to preserve their own self perception.

 

[Lex Talionis]

Because you are. (Collective 'you' not necessarily personal)

My job surrounds me with NTs and they constantly sneer at the 'dumb masses' (even the people whose paychecks I sign, lol). And you guys do it online explicitly too.

The only people in my workplace who are even remotely chill are the ESTP, ISFJ and the ENFJ. The other six people are likely NTs and drive me up the fucking wall with their arrogance. Each NT thinks (s)he's smarter than (unbeknownst to him) the other NTs.

It's amusing but fucking annoying. It's not just at work either, but the NTs I befriend in real life are obviously going to be more chill.

I'm not jealous of their delusions. I'm me, and I can only do the best I can.

I was not aware that the ability to sign a paycheck rendered you superior to those whose services (far more valuable than your own) you employ. What, if I may ask, has earned you such a privileged position? Did you initiate the business yourself and as such "own" it? Even if so, it has absolutely no bearing upon the intelligence of your "subordinates."

NTs are, on average, far more inclined toward not simply displaying intellect but possessing genuine intellectual capacity than the other types. This is simply the reality of our existence. You, as an ESFP, fail to provide a cogent argument despite your claims of "high" IQ and economic success. Do you not view this as a contradictory reality? You are fundamentally incapable of debating coherently and yet you are some "success" in life? Remember, our societies do not reward on the basis of talent and let alone intelligence; they reward on the basis of rapacity and pretentiousness.

Furthermore, either your sob story was recounted entirely through the lens of your sentiments or it is incomplete at best.

Furthermore, what you perceive as "arrogance" is often an honest confidence in one's own abilities. I find nothing disagreeable about believing yourself to be intellectually superior to those around you with cause, and most NTs (at least, in a relative sense) are capable of justifying a cause.

If you truly score at a Mensa level IQ, then the validity of IQ tests as a measure of intelligence only recedes in my mind. I cannot even take your writing style seriously. What a joke.

 

[Pride]

Liquid intelligence, above average? Slightly above average? It will have to depend on the test. Crystallized intelligence, however, I think is where an INTP would score highest in. After all, it is in our nature to store away over 9000 arbitrary and unnecessary facts about, well, everything.

 

[wolfy]

NTs seem really into their intellect so probably not. It'd be like getting an SP to admit they had no impact on their environment. I'd never do that to an NT, leave them feeling limp and impotent like that.

 

[Lord Guess]

Every single self-proclaimed NT (and that could be the reason for this) claims that they're gifted/high IQ.

Usually, I'd say "not all NTs claim that", but I haven't seen even ONE NT admit that they were merely of average intellect or below.

"NTs are intrinsically superior" jokes (shitty ones) aside, have you ever heard of an intellectually humble NT?

It's funny you should say that; I know I'm rather intelligent, especially compared to the people I meet in real life, and everyone who knows me tends to agree. However, I'm always suspicious of myself whenever I feel like I'm brilliant; I've learned not to overestimate my intelligence, as I think I have a lot to learn, too. I know I've got cognitive ability, but I don't like getting complacent.

 

[Pride]

I can live with the fact that my natural ability to recognize patterns in logic puzzles or the such may not be as strong as some people. However, the ability to solve visual logic puzzles does not necessitate an ability to accumulate knowledge and information. I think one of the most important aspects to at least an INTP's "intelligence" is his or her ability to observe, analyze, and then crystallize various pieces of information. Ti doesn't just seek information; it hungers for it. Information is also seen by Ti as knowledge; the accumulation of information is the key to making logical connections and frameworks which help us understand the world in what we perceive to be an objective format. Therefore, I do not think it is really possible (unless such an individual has some sort of serious psychological problem) for at least INTPs to be "of lesser intelligence" when the context is information and knowledge. This is how we cope with reality. Without information, we feel.... lost, useless, impotent.

 

[ThatGirl]

If I was sure I was average, of course I would. But as of yet, no one has been able to prove that. And I wont be taking any fancy IQ tests either!

 

[rav3n]

If I was sure I was average, of course I would. But as of yet, no one has been able to prove that. And I wont be taking any fancy IQ tests either!

Doesn't idle curiosity get to you, to not know? It's much like all the linked tests in the subforum. Even though most of the tests can easily be swayed in that subforum, it's kind of fun.

 

[ThatGirl]

Doesn't idle curiosity get to you, to not know? It's much like all the linked tests in the subforum. Even though most of the tests can easily be swayed in that subforum, it's kind of fun.

Not in the least. I grew up thinking I was close to retarded, the dumbest one in my family. I took one test, my entrance exam for college and received a good score. People acted like I was really smart, and put all this possibility in front of me. The test was super easy though, so I think it was exaggerated. Basic reading comprehension, and math knowledge. But I am not going back to being the idiot. I don't wish to be made aware of anything else.

I am pretty sure I am less than genius, I don't need to know by how much.

 

[mrcockburn]

I can live with the fact that my natural ability to recognize patterns in logic puzzles or the such may not be as strong as some people. However, the ability to solve visual logic puzzles does not necessitate an ability to accumulate knowledge and information. I think one of the most important aspects to at least an INTP's "intelligence" is his or her ability to observe, analyze, and then crystallize various pieces of information. Ti doesn't just seek information; it hungers for it. Information is also seen by Ti as knowledge; the accumulation of information is the key to making logical connections and frameworks which help us understand the world in what we perceive to be an objective format. Therefore, I do not think it is really possible (unless such an individual has some sort of serious psychological problem) for at least INTPs to be "of lesser intelligence" when the context is information and knowledge. This is how we cope with reality. Without information, we feel.... lost, useless, impotent.

INTPs have tertiary Si, which means they can actually remember shit. Out of all the NT types, I think INTPs would do the best in accounting or med school.

 

[mrcockburn]

I was not aware that the ability to sign a paycheck rendered you superior to those whose services (far more valuable than your own) you employ. What, if I may ask, has earned you such a privileged position? Did you initiate the business yourself and as such "own" it? Even if so, it has absolutely no bearing upon the intelligence of your "subordinates."

I never said I was more intelligent or valuable than they were. However, there's no proof that I'm less intelligent/valuable - and as long as we're all the best fits for our roles at a given time and are competent at our jobs, we're all valuable (like I said, it's a tiny start-up) and intelligence should be irrelevant altogether. I was expressing concern (and venting, which != the intention to "debate coherently") about the fact that productivity and and morale was being compromised by unwarranted arrogance.

And yes, it's my start-up. It's so small though, that it really relies on everyone being a team-player, otherwise it could easily crumble. I'm taking steps to address that vulnerability though.

NTs are, on average, far more inclined toward not simply displaying intellect but possessing genuine intellectual capacity than the other types. This is simply the reality of our existence. You, as an ESFP, fail to provide a cogent argument despite your claims of "high" IQ and economic success. Do you not view this as a contradictory reality? You are fundamentally incapable of debating coherently and yet you are some "success" in life? Remember, our societies do not reward on the basis of talent and let alone intelligence; they reward on the basis of rapacity and pretentiousness.

Furthermore, either your sob story was recounted entirely through the lens of your sentiments or it is incomplete at best.

Furthermore, what you perceive as "arrogance" is often an honest confidence in one's own abilities. I find nothing disagreeable about believing yourself to be intellectually superior to those around you with cause, and most NTs (at least, in a relative sense) are capable of justifying a cause.

If you truly score at a Mensa level IQ, then the validity of IQ tests as a measure of intelligence only recedes in my mind. I cannot even take your writing style seriously. What a joke.

And that is just a giant brick of ad hominem. This issue is something I was venting about and trying to get to the bottom of - not something to formally debate about.

If I wanted a real debate, I'd do it properly, about something outside my personal life. State the issue, state my argument backed by premises, etc.

But really, unlike you maybe, I'm not on a mission to "prove myself" to strangers on the internet via my posts here, so you can stop interpreting my posts as manifestation of my maximum intelligence level, which it seems you're doing. I wasn't aware that TypC was secretly an ongoing IQ test all along.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I can live with the fact that my natural ability to recognize patterns in logic puzzles or the such may not be as strong as some people. However, the ability to solve visual logic puzzles does not necessitate an ability to accumulate knowledge and information. I think one of the most important aspects to at least an INTP's "intelligence" is his or her ability to observe, analyze, and then crystallize various pieces of information. Ti doesn't just seek information; it hungers for it. Information is also seen by Ti as knowledge; the accumulation of information is the key to making logical connections and frameworks which help us understand the world in what we perceive to be an objective format. Therefore, I do not think it is really possible (unless such an individual has some sort of serious psychological problem) for at least INTPs to be "of lesser intelligence" when the context is information and knowledge. This is how we cope with reality. Without information, we feel.... lost, useless, impotent.

That bolded stuff is more Ne I think. Ti wants to make sense of it all and make it work. best.


And there is always EQ.

 

[Pride]

INTPs have tertiary Si, which means they can actually remember shit. Out of all the NT types, I think INTPs would do the best in accounting or med school.

Medicine, maybe, if the INTP found it interesting enough and was actually passionate for eight straight years during pre-Med, which I don't think is likely (although possible). Regarding accounting, I don't think this will ever apply for me. I've hated accounting and will always hate accounting. I didn't care enough to memorize anything, that's for sure.

 

[Mr. Cat]

No greater elegance than INT elegance.

 

[mrcockburn]

Medicine, maybe, if the INTP found it interesting enough and was actually passionate for eight straight years during pre-Med, which I don't think is likely (although possible). Regarding accounting, I don't think this will ever apply for me. I've hated accounting and will always hate accounting. I didn't care enough to memorize anything, that's for sure.

Indeed, because there's no room for Ne in accounting, whereas in medicine...House MD. Enough said.