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  1. #11


    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    she said they showed lack of depth.

    She also said that he "doesnt understand his own emotions".
    Did she mention these things to you, or with him there? Because if she said them with him there it is really poor form, and she probably needs a new career path.

    Also, his answers are honest and in touch with what he wants. And he's 13, what was she expecting?
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  2. #12
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Oct 2008
    9w1 sx/so


    ^^ agreed.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #13
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Apr 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post

    1) Is this an generic ENFP and INFP thing to do? ie hide that core away?
    2) If so why are we so insecure about letting others see it?
    happy puppy I really like this example you've given. I don't think only (N)FPs do this though. I've noticed that generally when you talk to people and start getting into the personal arena before the person feels they've sufficiently sussed you out they tend to start clamming up or misdirecting. I do that myself. The insecurity is that people don't know how their deeply held beliefs, feelings, or values will be received. If they are ridiculed or mocked that's hurtful. Most people aren't willing to open themselves up to that and rightfully so. It's open heart surgery without anesthesia. I have found it helpful to reveal low-stakes things about myself as a prompt and if the person wants to continue further then go with it. You've really got to feel these things out and I'd think a psychologist would know that, but maybe not.

    You're right he probably didn't trust her with his feelings, but I've also noticed that many adults don't know what they're feeling or why they're feeling it. All they know is they feel it. Sometimes it takes years for a person to figure out why they've felt the way they have over one life episode so it's not surprising that a 13 y.o. doesn't know.

    I would ask your son's counselor what sort of emotional development is typical in boys his age and how is he deviating from that. Then I'd ask what are the standards for deviation, but then she'd probably stop wanting to talk to me after that.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #14
    Senior Member Tiny Army's Avatar
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    Jan 2009


    I agree completely. None of my brothers knew how they felt at 13. Hell most of them still don't know how they feel.

    I believe that my own Fi is broken somehow. It is almost like I feel everything twice as strongly but handle it twice as badly. All my emotions end up twisting up inside me and I crack jokes to ease my anxiety. I used to fuck with the counselors at my secondary school.

    Edit: Not that I'm saying your son's Fi is broken. I just reckoned that most adolescent boys with Fi have no handle on it on account of hormones and that it sucks to be an adolescent boy.

  5. #15
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Nov 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I've noticed that generally when you talk to people and start getting into the personal arena before the person feels they've sufficiently sussed you out they tend to start clamming up or misdirecting.
    This is a very good point: misdirecting. I do it very well in IRL.

    And then I know that people think they know me (because I can tell lots of stuff about myself and my family) but actually they don't know me at all. Deep inside I mean. I think nobody knows it but only few, including me, I think .

  6. #16
    Senior Member IEE623's Avatar
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    Jul 2008


    Hehhhh I like your son

    The teacher just tries to change him to her expectations. From what I see, she's the one showing the lack of depth She deserves a joke.
    "Adversity makes men, and prosperity makes monsters"

  7. #17
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    The psych's first concern was his lack of "depth". For someone of his IQ she expected him to show more intellectual depth. The example was she asked him three wishes. Instead of world peace or ending hunger, he asked for 1) the goldfish to come back to life (we never had a goldfish) 2) the cat to come back to life (car-cat interaction went badly) 3) for it to snow in Texas during the winter. I thought these were hysterically funny myself but she said they showed lack of depth.
    Good grief, he's only 13! Anyway how can it be shallow for 13-year-old to want a beloved cat to come back to life?

    She also said that he "doesnt understand his own emotions". She based this on the observation that whenever she asked him about things that had an emotional context he would make a joke out of them or detour the conversation around the emotional context onto something else.
    As a early teen I would have simply refused to answer the question, not even made any jokes. I would have known how I felt, but exposing it would have felt like a raw nerve and I distrusted others totally. School can be a hard time.

    It is like this person doesn't understand teenagers.

  8. #18
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Oct 2008
    5w4 sx/sp


    What was your impression of the psych, just out of curiousity?
    World peace, blah, blah...text book answers. I'd probably answer like that too, just for a laugh. Maybe the psych lacked the emotional depth to know she was being screwed with?
    I don't know the whole thing just rings of the psych being a little shallow, or unable to bend, and certainly unable to deal with teenagers. It's like she read in a book that's how a person should act when they are this and that, and gets miffed when they don't meet her expectation instantly. I mean it's not like she can take back his IQ score is it?
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.


  9. #19
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Sep 2007


    You know this is so interesting to hear from other ENFPs - do other people also tell you that you are very good at being evasive and sneaky? A very small handful of people in my life (people very close to me or who spend an intensive amount of time with me) have told me this, but most folks in my life don't ever catch on. In fact, it's only gotten me 'in trouble' in romantic relationships where the expectations for intimacy and authenticity is much greater.

    Alcea, I also tell a lot of stories and talk very openly about myself, but I also consider myself to be 'pathologically secretive'. It used to be much, much worse and linked to insecurity and even anxiety but as I've gotten older and better integrated, I still have my secretiveness. Some stuff is just for me and I disclose carefully.

    When I was 10-13 though I was very open. I probably would have given more typical answers in earnest. I didn't get secretive until ths heights of puberty ('cause you know, life gets so much harder then and you have to develop a lot more self-protective mechanisms!)

    When is it safe for Fi to come out?
    As someone who again, used to be extremely protective and actively mistrusful and fearful of the world in regards to my Fi and my 'real self' (in enneatypes, the 6 wing means I'm counter/phobic and basically "vigilant" about the potential dangers in the world) I would say the more core confidence you build about your ability to stand your ground and 'be safe' - the more forthcoming you become.

    So in terms of MBT - maybe the more Te/Ti/Fe you develop, basically the better support your other functions give you, the more you come out of your excellently camoflouged shell. That and experience exposing yourself, for better or worse.

    Some people might call it simple confidence but it's more specific to how well you think you can 1) defend yourself 2) fit in with your kooky Fi and 3) be okay regardless of how others react to your Fi 4) be with the world.

    The last one is a doozy and takes some long term core work and growth depending on how strong your Fi is and how sensitive/protective/fearful you are.

    At least for me!
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux


  10. #20
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
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    Feb 2009


    I hid mine for a very long time.
    I still do.

    I've never encountered the "perfect" situation in which to expose Fi, even among friends and family.

    For all its feelings that "this is right" "this is who I am", Fi is incredibly destructive to the immediate social atmosphere. After an outburst, no matter how right it felt, no matter the beauty and clarity and inspirational-value of my point of view... I end up hating myself for what I caused.

    It's frustrating. Having an eye on the social fabric, being so careful and mindful of other's feelings, dancing around their words and anticipating meaning in order to not hurt them... only to see this tranquil air being totally poisonned by my own actual feelings.

    I know this is my core. I know that it feels right.
    Yet my thinking says "You're not -always- right".
    And I hate it when my intellect is right.

    By the time I snap out of it, it's always too late. The other person is mentally exhausted from having debated me, as a relative once said "debating with you, is like debating all the random imagination in the world. You'll invent some detail and hang on to it".

    I've grown in a rather bizarre way. I've become far less extraverted over the years.
    I work very hard at suppressing myself. To the extent, that yesterday I backstabbed one my friends while being totally conscious of it. Having everything in me screaming "This is wrong! This is so wrong!" was nothing short of brutal. If this was me from 5 years ago, I would have done absolutely everything in my power to avoid this. My -fundamental integrity- was at stake.

    I waited a few hours (horrible couple of hours) after the event, and wow.. more context came in, ultimately freeing me of my charges - and reinforcing my new shiny emotional security system that say "Xel, you're always wrong - don't go with your feelings."

    [ same disclaimer as always: sorry if you can't relate, Xel has a clinical mental illness. ]

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