[Fe] Fe: No cute title...I just don't get it

[Glycerine]

Your mom old enough she's likely got a lot more Te. I know a INFJ whose conflict resolution with family is: Apply Fe like crazy and then avoid them as much as possible. Nothing ever gets solved and family continues to step over boundaries and family also fumes and puzzles why INFJ is so distant. INFJ says cannot face these people with their actions because they don't have capcity to know right from wrong.

I dealt with the same people by finally telling them exactly what had to change or I was breaking contact. They said "We do what we want, when we want, that's just us. We don't care about right and wrong.." So there, they did understand, just don't care. I broke contact guilt-free and breathe easier now! The INFJ still sweating each time phone rings...still gushing Fe like crazy when picks it up and still running away with relief when hangs up.

I think my way was better, I actually asked and got an answer as to why they continued to be disrespectful of boundaries and they got to at least know why I don't warm to them, why they were cut direct. I gave them the chance to at least try to meet me halfway, they got to chose not to do so, but with INFJ they aren't even given a chance to know why the INFJ is distant.

I know there are Fe types who don't avoid conflcts, I am just giving the case where one does use Fe to hide conflicts and to keep on appearing "nice" while really shunning the people they want to view them as "nice."

I don't feel bad for offending people or hurting their feelings, what I feel bad over is if I unfairly hurt them or offended them without just cause.

Haha well, it's usually when my dad (ESFJ) is fuming about something so I just ignore it until he calms down. If I try to calm the situation down, it just makes him more mad and annoyed. I learned that staying calm is the best route to go. I noticed that when my mom tries mediate the tension when my dad gets mad, it usually backfires on her. On another note, I am very conflict avoiding but if something really bothers me, I will end up being blunt about it.

I will definitely admit that your example definiitely definitely clearly shows how Fe is at its worst. Sorry if I was a bit offbase.

 

[wedekit]

Most of my teachers tell a joke or have some funny comment to throw out right before they pass out a test. I think it's just to lighten up the mood. However, I also believe there are times when it is not appropriate to tell a joke, such as during a doctor's appointment. I had a doctor tell me a joke while going over the basic procedures of the colonoscopy I was about to receive (I was having a checkup after having a piece of my stool hardened into concrete and lodged itself in my intestines; I had to get it surgically removed). I wanted to kick him in the face, honestly.

I rarely tell jokes. My humor is defined more by sarcastic remarks than punchlines. I think if someone does tell a joke it should be short and sweet, and not some lengthy story with a mediocre punchline. In the event that I do tell a joke (normally only when me and a group of friends are swapping jokes) I usually tell ones like these:

What does a fish say when it hits a wall? Dam.

If someone doesn't like the joke, I shrug it off.

 

[Lisa73]

Interesting thread. I don't think it's unreasonable for a teacher to want some feedback from students. I understand that as a student you want to just learn, but it is a social environment, so it's important to realize there are other people there with feelings and needs. It's not just about you.
As for doctors and humor, I went to a doctor a few years ago when I was going through a hard time and had a minor complaint that I was very worried about. The doctor examined me in a professional manner, but when I started describing my obsessive worry about a minor ailment, he made a joke and told me I had too much time on my hands.
I swear, that joke did more to cure me than anything else could have done. It made me laugh at myself, and it convinced me that I was worrying over nothing. I'm still grateful to that doctor.

 

[TenebrousReflection]

Hahaha, I never really thought about it but I guess I do this as well. People I don't really wish to create a bond with (usually for good reason; not because of snobbery) just get a "formality Fe" from me. People who push my buttons too much don't receive this luxury.

I think you have touched on one of the negative perceptions I have toward Fe and insincericty with that notion. I'd rather have somoene be cold and distant towrad me than faking being friendly. The somewhat odd thing is, that a lot of the time I see the obvious insincerity of Fe being used by xxTx types and because its so clearly fake, it does not bother me, but when I think someone was being genuinely nice and friendly and later learn that its just a constant mask or instinct for them it bothers me. I think the btoehring me part of it has as much or more to do with me being upset with myself for being fooled by the fakeness than anything else tho.

From Proteanmix's comments on Fe from the perspective of an Fe Dominant, I'm fairly sure a lot of my negative views of Fe are from seeing it misused by non-Fes and mistyping them. From those same comments, I also see times where maybe I use Fe more than I previously realized and do so subconciously (the making of a mental database of things about friends that I later call upon for anything from conversation to gift giving to acting as a mediatior in disputes - maybe its another case of different functions doing the same thing different ways with different motivations (because values are important to me, I extend that to wanting to know whats important to those that are important to me, but I get the impression that Fe does the same thing but approaches it from a different motivation)).

But the part of Fe that baffles me the most, and I'm not sure if it is isolated to Fe or somethign else are those that put the good of the many above the freedom of the individual and put pressure on individuals to adhere to social norms if they think it will make the community better for it (in things that don't involve the individual causing harm to others). My perception in regards to traditionalism is that an ExTJ can still be reasoned with and if a good rational argument is presented they will give it thoughtful evaluation based on their values and goals, but an ExFJ would need to be approached with "social logic" (a structured argement based on if/then/else but tailored to the social aspects of it) to make a case they would consider which can sometimes be difficult or impossible if the ExFJ feels strongly about it. In fairness it's not that different than any other xxFx type, but again it is my perception that ExFJs are more likely to not only refuse to budge on their position, but to also want ot push that oppinion on to others because they see it as "the way things should be" or "the way things have always been". If this is a false perception of Fe, what am I describing (it could be generic unhealthy untypable behavior, but I see it often enough that it makes sense that it should be typable, or maybe a good 25% or more of society is just unhealthy) . I do know people I would type as FJs that that does not apply to (even some ESFJs), but my theory is that its more common among FJs than other types.

 

[heart]

Interesting thread. I don't think it's unreasonable for a teacher to want some feedback from students. I understand that as a student you want to just learn, but it is a social environment, so it's important to realize there are other people there with feelings and needs. It's not just about you.

So cracking jokes and making sure all students laugh at appropriate times is more important than the subject matter? The social aspect is more important than the material? Yes, I realize the world views it this and this is the thing I hated the most about public school.

You totally missed my point by the way. I was merely saying that sometimes it's hard to focus on social aspects when trying to concentrate and not go into Ne too much and get scattered. I was merely saying that one shouldn't always assume that because a student isn't rolling in the aisles over the teacher's jokes that one isn't paying attention. I was fully admitting that the problem is mine. It is hard for me to focus on the ego needs of teachers while trying learn new material.

And I am glad that your doctor cured you with a joke. Mine merely made a stressful and unpleasant appointment more difficult and still got paid $200 fat ones for the pleasure of trying his improv out on a captive audience.

One time I found an INTJ doctor and I loved that so much. Just matter of fact kind and patient and that was that.

 

[Tallulah]

re: needing student feedback

I find I get enough feedback from a handful of students, and that everyone has a different style of learning. I also know from doing theatre for years, that sometimes you think an audience hates your show, when really, they just have a different way of taking it in. Sometimes the quietest audience is getting the most out of the performance, and you won't know until later, and sometimes you'll never know at all.

As far as the prof calling you out on your expression, heart, it seems to me that he's letting his insecurities slip out. It can be a vulnerable thing to be a teacher sometimes, but I always try not to let my insecurities get the better of me. Calling a student out when they're not disrupting class is just stupid, and always works against you.

 

[heart]

As far as the prof calling you out on your expression, heart, it seems to me that he's letting his insecurities slip out. It can be a vulnerable thing to be a teacher sometimes, but I always try not to let my insecurities get the better of me. Calling a student out when they're not disrupting class is just stupid, and always works against you.

It was eons ago now, but I freaked over, I kept wondering what I did that set him off, because I was a very quiet person back then. I'd probably handle it a lot better now. I can extrovert Ne out better now, but back then it was a nightmare...I was totally mortified to be the center of attention like that.

 

[heart]

Folks, don't take me too seriously, I've just been perplexed by Fe type stuff through a lot of my life.

 

[proteanmix]

I think you have touched on one of the negative perceptions I have toward Fe and insincericty with that notion. I'd rather have somoene be cold and distant towrad me than faking being friendly. The somewhat odd thing is, that a lot of the time I see the obvious insincerity of Fe being used by xxTx types and because its so clearly fake, it does not bother me, but when I think someone was being genuinely nice and friendly and later learn that its just a constant mask or instinct for them it bothers me. I think the btoehring me part of it has as much or more to do with me being upset with myself for being fooled by the fakeness than anything else tho.

I still have no clue how people differentiate between fakeness and politeness. There's a woman at my job who I don't particularly care for. If she knows she doesn't let on because whenever I see her she'll smile and say hello to me. I do the same to her. It's basic courtesy to me. I don't do any more associating than that with her. I do notice that my Fi-dominant boss won't even acknowledge people whom she doesn't like. No problem with me, but I also notice she has to work harder (turn up the "fake Fe") to get those in other departments to cooperate with projects. And it's also odder that awful lot of people feel this way towards her. I feel like I'm somewhat able to separate my personal feelings from people and get on with them at least on a professional level rather than letting my dislike of them seep into every interaction. Is this what you mean by fakeness? I call that being civil and professional. And being from DC it's all politics to me. Sometimes you have to work with people you don't like. Are you going to concentrate on disliking them or getting what you need done done? My logic is doing this creates a boundary for the relationship and we know where we're not going to go with each other. If we're not on good terms but we have to be together anyway to me this seems like the best way to navigate the situation.

The only time I'm forced to come into contact with people I don't like is at work or when I was in school. Other than that, I try not to associate with people that I really don't like.

I hate to sound so business-like about it, but in my experience it's better to not let on if you don't care for a person. I AM NOT saying ingratiate yourself towards them despite your feelings or deliberately mislead someone about your true feelings to them. Am I understanding what you're saying correctly though?

From Proteanmix's comments on Fe from the perspective of an Fe Dominant, I'm fairly sure a lot of my negative views of Fe are from seeing it misused by non-Fes and mistyping them. From those same comments, I also see times where maybe I use Fe more than I previously realized and do so subconciously (the making of a mental database of things about friends that I later call upon for anything from conversation to gift giving to acting as a mediatior in disputes - maybe its another case of different functions doing the same thing different ways with different motivations (because values are important to me, I extend that to wanting to know whats important to those that are important to me, but I get the impression that Fe does the same thing but approaches it from a different motivation)).

Yes I totally agree. It's probably one of the most annoying things to me when I see these Fe vs. Fi threads start as if the two type of feelings are competing against each other for which one is the "real" feeling. I view it as different modes of wanting to attain the same ends.

But the part of Fe that baffles me the most, and I'm not sure if it is isolated to Fe or somethign else are those that put the good of the many above the freedom of the individual and put pressure on individuals to adhere to social norms if they think it will make the community better for it (in things that don't involve the individual causing harm to others). My perception in regards to traditionalism is that an ExTJ can still be reasoned with and if a good rational argument is presented they will give it thoughtful evaluation based on their values and goals, but an ExFJ would need to be approached with "social logic" (a structured argement based on if/then/else but tailored to the social aspects of it) to make a case they would consider which can sometimes be difficult or impossible if the ExFJ feels strongly about it. In fairness it's not that different than any other xxFx type, but again it is my perception that ExFJs are more likely to not only refuse to budge on their position, but to also want ot push that oppinion on to others because they see it as "the way things should be" or "the way things have always been". If this is a false perception of Fe, what am I describing (it could be generic unhealthy untypable behavior, but I see it often enough that it makes sense that it should be typable, or maybe a good 25% or more of society is just unhealthy) . I do know people I would type as FJs that that does not apply to (even some ESFJs), but my theory is that its more common among FJs than other types.

Hmm, I wonder if this is an EJ vs IP difference or maybe FP vs. FJ.

Can you give me some examples of what you mean by "the good of the many above the freedom of the individual"? That's a pretty big idea to boil down to an EFJ thing. That's an ideological difference. You'd be hardpressed to get someone to change their minds about such a basic inclination.

 

[TenebrousReflection]

I still have no clue how people differentiate between fakeness and politeness. There's a woman at my job who I don't particularly care for. If she knows she doesn't let on because whenever I see her she'll smile and say hello to me. I do the same to her. It's basic courtesy to me. I don't do any more associating than that with her. I do notice that my Fi-dominant boss won't even acknowledge people whom she doesn't like. No problem with me, but I also notice she has to work harder (turn up the "fake Fe") to get those in other departments to cooperate with projects. And it's also odder that awful lot of people feel this way towards her. I feel like I'm somewhat able to separate my personal feelings from people and get on with them at least on a professional level rather than letting my dislike of them seep into every interaction. Is this what you mean by fakeness? I call that being civil and professional. And being from DC it's all politics to me. Sometimes you have to work with people you don't like. Are you going to concentrate on disliking them or getting what you need done done? My logic is doing this creates a boundary for the relationship and we know where we're not going to go with each other. If we're not on good terms but we have to be together anyway to me this seems like the best way to navigate the situation.

The only time I'm forced to come into contact with people I don't like is at work or when I was in school. Other than that, I try not to associate with people that I really don't like.

I hate to sound so business-like about it, but in my experience it's better to not let on if you don't care for a person. I AM NOT saying ingratiate yourself towards them despite your feelings or deliberately mislead someone about your true feelings to them. Am I understanding what you're saying correctly though?

I think it comes down to more neutral vs nice/outgoing/friendly. Its easy to be sincerely neutral and still be polite, considerate and when needed being diplomatic about things, but doing so in a "just business" sort of way, but some people go out of their way to smile and be cheerful all the time, and for some of the people they are dealing with, thats a sincere expression of how they feel about them, but for others its an unconscious act thats misleading. In an interaction I observed a few months ago, one such nearly-always cheerful person (who I suspect is an ENFJ) asks another person (who I don't know much about but seems like an IxFP of some kind) the simple "haven't seen you around for a while, how have you been?" and the other person goes on to explain their current medical problems etc, and the person that asked the question listens and lets them keep talking for a while, but eventually excuses himself from the conversation. In the end the person that was asked mumbles to themselves in an annoyed tone (after the first person had left), "if he didn't want to know, why did he ask". Its that sort of faked interest/concern that bothers me as well. After I spend several months around someone I can usually tell the level of concern/sincerity/seriousness in their idle conversation like that, but with some people (and people I don't know very well), it seems impossible to differentiate because its an always on thing for them. If I'm nice to someone, its because I find them likable and if I express concern or interest in them its genuine (but even a lot of my friends would probably call me detached and distant a lot of the time ), but if I either have no opinion about someone or even if I dislike them I try to be neutral but civil and polite toward them, but don't try to show interest/concern etc if its not within me.

Hmm, I wonder if this is an EJ vs IP difference or maybe FP vs. FJ.

Can you give me some examples of what you mean by "the good of the many above the freedom of the individual"? That's a pretty big idea to boil down to an EFJ thing. That's an ideological difference. You'd be hardpressed to get someone to change their minds about such a basic inclination.

That may have been a poorly worded sentiment on my part, but pretty much anything that falls in the category of "don't rock the boat" (preserve peace for the collective at the expense of individuality) sort of thinking is what I associate with Fe, but that may be a misconception on my part.

As I tried to think of specfic examples, I can see they don't specifically relate to Fe, but I have the feeling that Fe is a motivating factor in them, but the more I think about it, the more likely it seems that its a tertiary, inferior or sahdow Fe thats causing the influence, but I'd be curious what side of these positions someone with dominant or secondary Fe would take as it might help me see if I'm mistaken on the conenction or not.

One example I had in mind with that thought is the education system and how they keep talking about the importance for kids learnign more math and science for the good of our nations economic future. In my mind, with that attidute, they are wanting to force kids who have no aptitude for those subjects to take more of them without bothing to think that maybe the kid could excel at something else if they could use their time for that instead of being pressured down that road (I beleive fairly strognly that the education system needs to be re-examined and there is a lot of room for improvement, but I'm not happy with the narrow minded approach that seems to be given to the task based on what others percieve as the common good - my gripe is with the one size fits all approach).

Families puttign pressure on their kids to go into some occupation the parrents approve of would be a variation of that (wanting success and prestige for their child (and by extension the family) without bothing to ask if its whats right for the kid). Another variant would be pressure among parents that are religious to get their kids to participate in their religion instead of waiting and seeing if the child expreses interest in that relgion on their own or something else (and creating a fear in the child that they will be judged negativly if they choose a different path).

 

[heart]

I do notice that my Fi-dominant boss won't even acknowledge people whom she doesn't like. No problem with me, but I also notice she has to work harder (turn up the "fake Fe") to get those in other departments to cooperate with projects. And it's also odder that awful lot of people feel this way towards her.

I learned early on, like by 17 that attempting to use a fake form of Fe on my part is the fastest way for me to truly alienate others. But there's a large gap between not using lots of Fe and ignoring others, maybe your boss never learned this, I just don't know.

What has worked best for me as Fi at work to be quietly kind and polite and then whenever possible show kindness through action. Like at work, try to be the patient one who is willing to take a moment to help and to ask when I have time if I can help others. To be kind and patient when things are stressful and going wrong. Be known as the person who is easy to deal with. That's the best way for me to develop valuable friendships at work. Also to be a listener, someone who is willing to truly listen and understand. There's always some aspect of a person that one can feel sympathy for it seems.

 

[Domino]

I've used Fe to overpower difficult people before. It winds up taking on a menacing tone because the emotion behind it is bludgeoning, not friendly. In a weird way, it's just as sincere as when being used for "good".

Example: The scene in Wuthering Heights where Heathcliff has returned all grown up and has dropped in on Catherine, and her ridiculous sister in law believes herself to be in love with Heathcliff. Catherine pins Isabella to her chair and barrages her with a mocking tirade right in front of Heathcliff (who couldn't care less about Isabella and does nothing to stop it). Catherine holds her down until Isabella draws blood from her hands with her fingernails.

I would have, and have, done things like that, when I've lost my patience entirely. Not terribly flattering, but it IS Fe on a tear.

 

[Apollanaut]

Agree with laser. But I am fake with people I don't want to establish a real connection with, obviously. I stick to pretty boring subject with these people so I can chase them off even though I seem very nice. I seem very "smiley face" and there's this kind of void behind it that lets people guess I really really am being insincere and don't give a damn about the conversation, well not all people.

Yeah I do this too! I go all polite and formal with these people, but what I'm thinking inside is: "I wish this person would go away! Can't they tell I'm only talking to them out of politeness?". I don't think I've ever been brave enough to say this out loud. Sometimes I curse my Fe for this, but mostly I love its ability to establish rapport with other people.

 

[H20]

New here, liked "I just don't get it" and especially

I taught a 4-day workshop one time where a third of the participants were dominant Fe's and I'd venture to say all mature people--a perfect fish bowl of what Fe looks like at its best. In subtle ways they were constantly making sure everyone was having as much fun as they were, making sure the coffee stayed fresh and hot, suggesting a bit better arrangement for tables so everyone could see, organizing lunch so no one who wanted to be included was excluded, etc. The whole room was happy all week.

Fe at its best is working toward harmony (not manipulation), recognizing others' needs and acting to meet them when appropriate (not codependency), ensuring a group remains true to its cause (without becoming bossy), and listening and responding (sincerely). Those are the behaviors you see when Fe is making decisions based on stepping into the shoes of others and understanding the impact on each person of various alternatives. Like all types, they're great people when they have mature command of their function and a well-developed auxiliary to keep them grounded...

Fe is my auxiliary. It's never as natural for me to read a room (unless I'm training and then it's my job and the instinct kicks in), note others' needs, speak up with compliments, etc. It always feels like an afterthought. Here's where I have trouble, though, with the 8-function model as I'm not sure Fe is a "thing" as much as "I'm an Introvert who prefers Feeling but has to give myself a jump-start to get out of my Introverted world and act on what the Feeling function just decided..." That delay probably lessens the sincerity meter with others since my reactions are often delayed.

like this post! LOL!!!! I just started laughing when I read this. How true for me

I've been told (test) I'm an INFJ. From what I've read over the years, seems true - until I found this website. How much I don't know! Good gracious, what a lot of reading/exploring, etc. to do.. and while I love taking psychological tests, doing all this research seems like a bit too much work. I visited another site, found via link, which offered a LOT of explanation of 3 different models to compare, contrast and 'refine' your type.... whew... that's a lot of work, lol!

Back to subject... I really got a kick out of edCoaching's post - that's me to a "T", so thank you Ed... now I don't have to go look up/read/try to understand all the FE/FI 'stuff'...... what a relief!

I've bookmarked this site and will go lurk a bit and figure it out from there

Thanks, all!

M

 

[Noel]

Fe for me:

Fe reminds me of a mouse in a person's front pocket. When it pokes its head up from hiding and sees people around food in the distance, making its presence know is suicide. Hence why its learned to eat when I tell it to eat - in a safe and comfortable environment. My friends know of my pet but others do not.

 

[cheap]

i am infj but i can relate more to the infps in this thread. i have social phobia so that's probably why i hold back a lot of my Fe and most people perceive me as aloof.

if i'm having a bad day i'm pretty transparent and will go sit alone. i won't feel guilty for "not accommodating" because i'm causing no harm.

she's energised by being warm, friendly and nurturing with others. her sincere motivations possibly projects that everyone needs affection and to be "cheered up." each type has their own way of communicating caring and sincerity, for the rest..being a calm, good listener is certainly one of them. can't please everyone.

the only thing that could be considered mildly "fake" is i don't normally tell people when they're bothering me unless it's a bigger issue. it doesn't unintentionally lead people to become clingy/dependant like with my enfj friend though because she gives an impression of inclusion and invitation even to those who will eventually feel accepted, thus drive her nuts

I think it comes down to more neutral vs nice/outgoing/friendly. Its easy to be sincerely neutral and still be polite, considerate and when needed being diplomatic about things, but doing so in a "just business" sort of way, but some people go out of their way to smile and be cheerful all the time, and for some of the people they are dealing with, thats a sincere expression of how they feel about them, but for others its an unconscious act thats misleading.
...
If I'm nice to someone, its because I find them likable and if I express concern or interest in them its genuine (but even a lot of my friends would probably call me detached and distant a lot of the time ), but if I either have no opinion about someone or even if I dislike them I try to be neutral but civil and polite toward them, but don't try to show interest/concern etc if its not within me.

yeah, i will try to tolerate them with a formal, reserved front as to not cause conflict that could potentially blow up out of larger proportion the petty irritation i can always recharge from. i would call such formality being civil but not cheerful or potentially sending mixed signals.

my enfj friend more "actively tolerates" as if she's trying hard to erase the irritation through interacting with them, "it's not them, it's my ability to deal...plus they want to interact with me so i'm meeting their needs" (although she brings further irritation on herself..she does have a need to be needed). eventually she needs to recharge too but she can persist with putting others' feelings before her own with greater perseverance than me, gives her more fulfilment to be able to do this.

 

[lorkan]

This is my experience exactly with Fe a lot of the time. I don't see the point of doing the building part if you dismiss the person straight after. It becomes just a social formality. You get someone excited that you care, so you feel like a good person, then kick them back into the gutter and move onto the next. From an Fi point of view it can really feel like the human element of a situation is neglected.

The problem sometime is that P's can get way to nerdy while FJ's feel like: this guy only want to speak want to speak of this and that on his own terms (not wanting to find common ground), and if I don't understand it I'm not smart enough or enough interested, accoarding to FP's. Why doesnt this person give me an introduction or something or try to tell parts that might interest me? The social skills of P's can sometimes be appaulling

 

[Kestrel]

I'm utterly perplexed by how people on this forum describe Fe. Could it be that some people use their functions in a different manner than others? And perhaps Fi and Fe are not so radically different? Or MAYBE one is not better than the other?

Or maybe someone could explain these functions in a way that makes sense. So far it seems to me that all of our "functions" are so deeply entangled and you can't tell your Fi from your Se.

 

[BlueScreen]

The problem sometime is that P's can get way to nerdy while FJ's feel like: this guy only want to speak want to speak of this and that on his own terms (not wanting to find common ground), and if I don't understand it I'm not smart enough or enough interested, accoarding to FP's. Why doesnt this person give me an introduction or something or try to tell parts that might interest me? The social skills of P's can sometimes be appaulling

Sorry, it was a little insulting and poorly expressed, I'd actually considered deleting it. If I can I will. (I got a bit riled up by one or two of the statements I read before it on Fi.)

The point I was agreeing with was to us it can feel like the cause reigns above the people, which in a way is contradictory seeing the aim is helping people. I shouldn't have generalised, and I shouldn't have said it is purely an Fe trait. Maybe I was pointing out a potential blind spot. Maybe it is a flaw in our perception and there is no blind spot. Maybe it is a different focus with the same intentions.

I'm agreeing with the post above as I read more. I think Fe and Fi are two sides of the same coin. They might even be the same function but in a form where they can't recognise eachother and we spend a lot of time kicking our best allies in the head. At this stage I just really want to get to the bottom of the whole INFJ-ENFP thing. And I am starting to realise we both have a talant for wanting to be better and trying to cut out the other. They are essentially feeling functions. We both care, just in different ways which neither sees as good enough. And the conflict has perplexed me since the first time I saw an ENFP mention another NF on their list of types they didn't get on with. It is something that is so out of place that it shouldn't happen. Like mentioned in the other thread, it's like two people yelling at eachother in chinese and english and probably agreeing. You see from our view as little as we see from yours. Your explanations describe as little in our view as ours do in yours. And you insult as much in our realm as we do in yours. I think that is the starting realisation in all this. Maybe we have to bash around till it all gets out in the open and becomes clear... get insulted, be uncertain, reassess ourselves and find a place where the two worlds meet. I have learnt very little from most INFJ posts on the thread though on more than a superficial level, and INFJs will probably learn little from us on more than a superficial level. Because to the other, the things we truly believe in have no appeal.. maybe they are even the things we fight against. It is a reconciling of different languages and different worlds. But one that could be so powerful if it happened, because you have the part that doesn't appeal so we ignore. In a way you complete us.

p.s. I'm sorry again and am going to be consciously careful not to get set off by posts from now on, because it is pretty bad for the forum and destructive to the discussion.

 

[proteanmix]

I think it comes down to more neutral vs nice/outgoing/friendly. Its easy to be sincerely neutral and still be polite, considerate and when needed being diplomatic about things, but doing so in a "just business" sort of way, but some people go out of their way to smile and be cheerful all the time, and for some of the people they are dealing with, thats a sincere expression of how they feel about them, but for others its an unconscious act thats misleading. In an interaction I observed a few months ago, one such nearly-always cheerful person (who I suspect is an ENFJ) asks another person (who I don't know much about but seems like an IxFP of some kind) the simple "haven't seen you around for a while, how have you been?" and the other person goes on to explain their current medical problems etc, and the person that asked the question listens and lets them keep talking for a while, but eventually excuses himself from the conversation. In the end the person that was asked mumbles to themselves in an annoyed tone (after the first person had left), "if he didn't want to know, why did he ask". Its that sort of faked interest/concern that bothers me as well. After I spend several months around someone I can usually tell the level of concern/sincerity/seriousness in their idle conversation like that, but with some people (and people I don't know very well), it seems impossible to differentiate because its an always on thing for them. If I'm nice to someone, its because I find them likable and if I express concern or interest in them its genuine (but even a lot of my friends would probably call me detached and distant a lot of the time ), but if I either have no opinion about someone or even if I dislike them I try to be neutral but civil and polite toward them, but don't try to show interest/concern etc if its not within me.

This is my experience exactly with Fe a lot of the time. I don't see the point of doing the building part if you dismiss the person straight after. It becomes just a social formality. You get someone excited that you care, so you feel like a good person, then kick them back into the gutter and move onto the next. From an Fi point of view it can really feel like the human element of a situation is neglected.

Yeah, people are gonna have to give me some examples here.

I'm hearing people talk about Fe in the abstract being "fake" but it's thin on actual situations. It's almost as if people that decry Fe as fake are never in situations that require some fancy footwork to extricate themselves from. If you all have any pointed I would LOVE to hear them. I'm serious because I could use some new moves.

I'll even give yall one.

This past week we had the dreaded Annual Multicultural Potluck Celebration. That's when people bring in homecooked dishes representing their culture or cultures of their choosing. I HATE IT. I don't trust eating people's food, I don't like pretending I like it, I just hate this thing. This year a friend and I were going to sneak out for lunch before our coworkers we're friends with came looking for us to go the potluck.

I made it to the elevator and the damn thing was taking an eternity to get to my floor. The door opened and here was one of my coworkers going to the kitchen to heat up her food.

"Where are you going?"
"Oh, I'm headed downstairs."
"You're not going to the potluck?"
"Um, I'm going to get lunch downstairs " (Now that I think about it maybe this is where I should've lied!)
"Why are you buying lunch when we have the multicultural luncheon?"
"I love to waste money when I don't need too!"
"Are you at least going to try my [insert dish]?"
"Well you know those burritos fill you up..."
"OK, well I'll save you some!"

By now a couple of other coworkers I'm friendly with have seen me and they're like "where are you going too" Repeat story from above. They all are like "well why don't you just look around and see if there's anything you like." I end up caving and eating food, people asking me if I like and I LIE LIKE HELL.

FPs et al, please tell me what you would've done not appear "fake" still be polite, and come out unscathed. Because I don't know if you know what it's like to have a coven of women hovering around you asking you to try their food and then daring to ask if you like it or not. Do you say "oh the cornbread was a little dry" or "Your pansit has pork in it and I don't eat pork" or "the sweet potatoes taste like vomit." Do you all really say those things flat out to people? You know what the hell I did? I smiled and said each time I was asked "It tastes delicious!" I guess I am fake as hell then.

I'm OK with it though.