.

[Vendrah]

I didn't say that this doesn't exist as social elements. But that everything just don't seem to be as sophisticated, what is easy to relate to loose or unimplemented regulations (what is kinda the same thing).
Yeah, Bolosnaro made some things worse but the point is that in my version this wouldn't happen at all. Also bad schools are also work of bad regulation and the lack of funding.


Your entire system looks generally improvised, what has it's charms but your lack of sophisticating things is eventually killing you (at least some of you). And yes safer upbringing lowers the amount of corrupt people that do frauds. What is kinda my point: education, resources, laws, people ... they all need to be in sync to provide truly good results. Just about every country can say "yeah, we have laws", but that isn't really the point. The point is how well they interact one with another (and that is real regulation). My own country is currently studying how to be good as our partners on the continent and the key is in quality interaction of all elements, not that they are simply there.

Please, please, could you stop referring Brazil as "me" or "you are" as if I am Brazil?
Very few of the things here are done the way I would do it myself.

I don't think I have much more to say, except that there are occasions and occasions for regulations...

 

[Virtual ghost]

Please, please, could you stop referring Brazil as "me" or "you are" as if I am Brazil?
Very few of the things here are done the way I would do it myself.

I don't think I have much more to say, except that there are occasions and occasions for regulations...

Well, you are defending the logic of the place and you live there, so I dare to round up the talking points in order to get more quickly to the bottom line. Which evidently isn't about you or me personally.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Well, you are defending the logic of the place and you live there, so I dare to round up the talking points in order to get more quickly to the bottom line. Which evidently isn't about you or me personally.

It is kinda that I simply can't help myself.

Blue/white

I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order.
I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it.
At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I will re-post this. Especially since I have impression that this is generally correct.

However for me this is the work of regulation which goes far deeper than just trowing rules at people.
In other words you need to teach people how to think and deal with the problems, what is genuine education (and that is also a form of regulation). Plus you have to make rational standards which will make sure that the mechanisms stay in place and that clear majority stays on "lawful side" and is generally productive. What is simply something that doesn't happen on its own, especially not on the current technical level.

 

[Vendrah]

Well, you are defending the logic of the place and you live there, so I dare to round up the talking points in order to get more quickly to the bottom line. Which evidently isn't about you or me personally.

I am not, actually, just look at the discussion with Tellenbach...

It is kinda that I simply can't help myself.

haahhahaah now that is partially okay - partially because I really suffer from that, ya know? I can't even properly speak my own opinions irl because I am surrounded with Js with some few fascist tendencies (not full fascist...yet or again)... but these are mostly on the neolib and market side, basically and what angers me are these pseudo-freedoms and lies...

I will re-post this. Especially since I have impression that this is generally correct.

However for me this is the work of regulation which goes far deeper than just trowing rules at people.
In other words you need to teach people how to think and deal with the problems, what is genuine education (and that is also a form of regulation). Plus you have to make rational standards which will make sure that the mechanisms stay in place and that clear majority stays on "lawful side" and is generally productive. What is simply something that doesn't happen on its own, especially not on the current technical level.

The US is one of the countries that arrests the most yet it still has much crime.
What I mean is that in general you cannot say that a place is more or less regulated by just looking at the homicide/crime rate. You can at best speculate that.

 

[Virtual ghost]

haahhahaah now that is partially okay - partially because I really suffer from that, ya know? I can't even properly speak my own opinions irl because I am surrounded with Js with some few fascist tendencies (not full fascist...yet or again)... but these are mostly on the neolib and market side, basically and what angers me are these pseudo-freedoms and lies...

Ok, just try to remember that not all Js are neolibs.

The US is one of the countries that arrests the most yet it still has much crime.
What I mean is that in general you cannot say that a place is more or less regulated by just looking at the homicide/crime rate. You can at best speculate that.

Not really if you read my thread there are plenty of articles that say that US and EU have large problems of communicating and being on the same side since in EU things are more regulated. What makes systems hard to directly connect, because they are fundamentally different and to some degree they are trying to achieve different things. While for me crime is just the outcome of pilled up problems. Plus I read some books that mention all of this, so this really isn't pure speculation.

 

[Vendrah]

Ok, just try to remember that not all Js are neolibs.

Hhahahah true, actually liberalism per se is very Pish...
I mean, when J get into the fascism thing, when I can't say my opinions and all... =(
Far from being you.

Not really if you read my thread there are plenty of articles that say that US and EU have large problems of communicating and being on the same side since in EU things are more regulated. What makes systems hard to directly connect, because they are fundamentally different and to some degree they are trying to achieve different things. While for me crime is just the outcome of pilled up problems. Plus I read some books that mention all of this, so this really isn't pure speculation.

Well, if we can't have that comparison we have sort of a complicated issue because we are a little bit on the dark here.
I have zero notions of which places are more or less regulated by my own experience and knowledge.
If there are no proper other places and people to tell me that, I will keep clueless. The only thing I know is that it is spread that here is overly bureaucratic and over-regulation, but that could be just a made-up lie (or not).

 

[Virtual ghost]

Well, if we can't have that comparison we have sort of a complicated issue because we are a little bit on the dark here.
I have zero notions of which places are more or less regulated by my own experience and knowledge.
If there are no proper other places and people to tell me that, I will keep clueless. The only thing I know is that it is spread that here is overly bureaucratic and over-regulation, but that could be just a made-up lie (or not).

That is what I am trying to tell you, there is something called "quality of regulations" and "compatibility of regulations". In other words if regulations in their sum create mess they kinda aren't regulations, since they don't regulate but instead they create mess. I mean here there are also people that whine that we are too regulated and the system is still visibly more loose than in some nearby fully developed countries, that are evidently doing better than us. So I really don't take this too seriously. Having things sorted out and being ready for whatever reality throws at you is simply a good strategy. Much better than reactive and panic based behavior when you just land into shit. Real orderliness rarely feels like bureaucracy, since bureaucracy and stress related to it is basically a form of disorder.

 

[Vendrah]

That is what I am trying to tell you, there is something called "quality of regulations" and "compatibility of regulations". In other words if regulations in their sum create mess they kinda aren't regulations, since they don't regulate but instead they create mess. I mean here there are also people that whine that we are too regulated and the system is still visibly more loose than in some nearby fully developed countries, that are evidently doing better than us. So I really don't take this too seriously. Having things sorted out and being ready for whatever reality throws at you is simply a good strategy. Much better than reactive and panic based behavior when you just land into shit. Real orderliness rarely feels like bureaucracy, since bureaucracy and stress related to it is basically a form of disorder.

But saying that if the regulations don't work then they are not regulations would be something more specific than just regulations!
You real orderliness is something way more specific than orderliness.

 

[Virtual ghost]

But saying that if the regulations don't work then they are not regulations would be something more specific than just regulations!
You real orderliness is something way more specific than orderliness.

Well I said "kinda", since I am playing with the terms here. But yeah, this is nitpicking.
However if regulator makes mess then he didn't really regulate things. Perhaps he tried but it didn't work.
The point even isn't so much in written regulation itself as much as that you have clarity in what you should do if x or y happens. However that generally requires that you sort out things in advance.

 

[Lark]

No, the fact that most shoes today are manufactured by corporations makes me think that they're a product of capitalism.

I wouldnt argue, although at any time in history that there's been shoes its not any indication those epochs were capitalist, a lot of the time they where not, so you could say that the economy makes shoes rather than capitalism.

Unless your point was really that capitalism produces corporations? Maybe, maybe so, especially if by corporation you mean a monopoly supplier.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Btw. here we still have public company that makes shoes.
Therefore just if in your country that is fundamentally a private business that doesn't mean that this is the case everywhere and always. However Americans are all risen in a way that they have a hard time telling the difference between capitalism and consumerism. Since public company and consumerism are possible combination. After all my energy supplier is public company and a number of my stuff were made by public companies. Back in a day we even had cars made by public company and we used them to go vacations/beach.

 

[Tellenbach]

Unless your point was really that capitalism produces corporations?

It bugs me that anti-capitalists post shit about capitalism when they reap the benefits of it; it's hypocritical and that's my point. The modern world, especially in Western nations, is built by capitalism. Most roads, buildings, machinery, medicine, music, film, and clothing are the products of capitalism. Basically, most socialists today are phony. They want the full benefits of capitalism; they just don't want to work for it.

Imagine if a vegetarian ate burgers everyday and bitched about killing animals; we'd say they were phony. That's pretty much the state of affairs with socialists.

 

[Tellenbach]

Im sorry, did I miss your post containing the list of the greatest Somalians and Paraguayans?

Are there any? I'm not aware of any recent Somalian contributions to the advancement of humanity. Has Paraguay ever done anything great? I've never seen a Paraguayan film or listened to any of their music. If these 2 nations disappeared all of a sudden, 99% of humanity wouldn't even know it.

 

[Tomb1]

It bugs me that anti-capitalists post shit about capitalism when they reap the benefits of it; it's hypocritical and that's my point. The modern world, especially in Western nations, is built by capitalism. Most roads, buildings, machinery, medicine, music, film, and clothing are the products of capitalism. Basically, most socialists today are phony. They want the full benefits of capitalism; they just don't want to work for it.

Imagine if a vegetarian ate burgers everyday and bitched about killing animals; we'd say they were phony. That's pretty much the state of affairs with socialists.

Ad Hominem

 

[Vendrah]

It bugs me that anti-capitalists post shit about capitalism when they reap the benefits of it; it's hypocritical and that's my point. The modern world, especially in Western nations, is built by capitalism. Most roads, buildings, machinery, medicine, music, film, and clothing are the products of capitalism. Basically, most socialists today are phony. They want the full benefits of capitalism; they just don't want to work for it.

Imagine if a vegetarian ate burgers everyday and bitched about killing animals; we'd say they were phony. That's pretty much the state of affairs with socialists.

(Just tagging [MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION])

Not only Ad Hominem... By here seems that everyone who complains about capitalism is hypocritical (you complain about my sacred market capitalism -> you hypocrite), this sounds really indoctrination; As far as I know, you complain about the state, don't you? All the time. Then, why are you not at Somalia? Not on Paraguay? Actually, if you complain about US being soooo full of state and these "democrats ruining the country", why you mention the US greatness? What about Somalia, huh? Yet you are not going to Somalia to get rid of the state, you are not going to Paraguay for the free cheap market, neither you are coming to Brazil so you can almost pretend COVID doesn't exist like people are doing here. There are lots of Chloroquine here too; And lots of people dying as well.

Are there any? I'm not aware of any recent Somalian contributions to the advancement of humanity. Has Paraguay ever done anything great? I've never seen a Paraguayan film or listened to any of their music. If these 2 nations disappeared all of a sudden, 99% of humanity wouldn't even know it.

Exactly.
There aren't any.
Yet there is no "villainistic state" on these places preventing these people from "achieving their greatness"!

 

[Virtual ghost]

Plus I just have to react since this thread has one serious misinformation in it. Which is that Scandinavia is democratic socialist in its structure. What simply isn't true since they are basically social democracy, what is something else. The difference is that social democracy is much more friendly towards private property, private investments and various civil liberties. Plus it has fully functional stock market. Social democracy is basically regulated capitalism with plenty of welfare programs, while democratic socialism is democratic socialism. However many Americans like to blur all of that since they think in the terms of black and white, due to their own two party system and propaganda. While world is simply much more complex than that.



Who wants they can google "Denmark isn't socialist country" if they want to do their own research. Since this was debate not too long ago where Scandinavian governments openly rebelled against the labels from American right and to some degree American left as well. Which all think in very simplistic definitions. While those countries basically represent something that doesn't really exist in American political terminology.

 

[Tellenbach]

By here seems that everyone who complains about capitalism is hypocritical

Most are. I do respect people like Ed Begley Jr because he actually lives out his convictions, but there are anti-capitalists who own multiple homes (like Bernie Sanders and many Democrat politicians). Basically, if you spend your life accumulating wealth like many "socialists" and then whine about capitalism, you're a fraud.