[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Functions > Preferences - Official Thread

[Dashy CVII]

Functions > Preferences - Official Thread

By preferences, (also known as dichotomies) this thread is referring to the notion that, let's start with an example, the type INFJ is thought to be equally I-N-F-J. This reality however in function theory is wrong. The INFJ is actually: Ni > F > T >> Inferior Sensing. Another instance, the INTP, is Ti > N > S >> Inferior Feeling. So, the point to draw from this is, if you want to grasp a deeper function understanding, it is possible that you may need accurate function descriptions to ensure you're typing people according to the real functions as they naturally occur:

By naturally occurring, I'm referring to the idea that, regardless if someone types as INTJ, as a TiNe they will be able to "figure out" that they're actually TiNe and not NiTe, due to Ti within themselves. They will recognize upon looking closely at themselves, a primary Introverted Logician, and even closer, a relationship more with N/S than with Feeling. I am one of those who thinks MBTI is better at focusing on the deeper cognitive functions to describe the types rather than the dichotomies. For instance, I know some mistyped INTPs who relate much more to the INTJ mind (Ni > T > F > S), and some mistyped INTJs who relate much more to the INTP mind (Ti > N > S > F.) There's a good reason for this. INTJ and INTP are exactly opposite functionally, but only have one letter difference. This 1 letter is too mistakeable, in other words, there's a risk of getting typed the entirely wrong NT than you really are, by missing one letter (the same goes for all types,) and thus it's better to leave J/P entirely out of the type and to focus on the real difference: the opposite function values. J/P instead should only be understood in reference to Judging functions vs Perceiving functions, like it was in the beginning.

I found the following function-focused profiles to be very accurate compared to the preference profiles, because (a) they distinguish between xxxJ and xxxP not by talking about J/P, but by understanding the deep nature of cognitive functions. Between an xxxJ and xxxP, the mental functions are exactly opposite, so a J/P distinguishment won't be the accurate tool to know if one's really that type. (b) I'm sure numerous people might fit another type profile here rather than the one they think they are. For example, someone gets typed INTP but relates more to NiTe (ILI), or someone else gets typed INTJ but relates more to TiNe (LII). I found these profiles from a video on the main page, and they align also in some ways with Lenore Thomson's work.

PLEASE NOTICE: You need to see this in the following links. If you see famous people at the top, it's the wrong version. Reload, until you arrive at the full profile that covers DRIVER, COPILOT functions. These links change somewhat each time you click on them.

INTJ	INFJ	INTP	INFP
ENTJ	ENFJ	ENTP	ENFP
ISTJ	ISFJ	ISTP	ISFP
ESTJ	ESFJ	ESTP	ESFP

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The following is a back-up of just a tiny percent of this text. However, each function description below is incomplete, as it's described differently and more thoroughly for each type in the full profiles above, as well as other sources.

Ni - "Perspectives." A lot like Lenore Thomson's definition, Ni is a way of processing information in which you perspective-shift to understand a problem or situation from all possible angles. You spend a lot of time thinking about various angles to something, and find it intrinsically rewarding to refine ideas and concepts. Perspectives is the process that helps one watch their own minds form patterns, get inside the minds of others and allows them to see implications far in the future.

Ne - "Exploration." A lot like Lenore Thomson's definition, Ne is finding connections between disparate things in the outside world. Pushing buttons and looking for patterns in the outside world. It is about exploring. Imagine there is six foot tall grass and you are there to blaze a trail with your machete. That is Exploration. While it does many things, Exploration loves to ask the question “What if?” By opening up to all possibilities - Exploration is able to create connections between people, ideas, objects, or places that discover new ways of thinking.

Ti - "Accuracy." This is true rationalization, the ability to logic through a subject or concept within one's own understanding, even if it doesn’t match ‘outer world’ data. Accuracy is concerned with what makes sense to the internal world. They are detached from the messiness of relationships and emotions. It asks, What makes sense logically?

Te - "Effectiveness." You ask "what works, logically?" and focus on clear, objective metrics by implementing plans in the outside world. INTJs can be excellent procrastinators and convince themselves that making a plan is the same thing as executing a plan. For ExTJs however, Effectiveness is the part of us that wants to get things done and cross items off the ‘to-do’ list. Metrics become important since they’re the primary tool to determine pass/fail criteria. See more in-depth about Te in the individual type profiles.

Si - "Memory." Memory is about taking in information then post processing. A review process as opposed to in the moment. It is a learning sensing process. It’s about what has been proven to be reliable based on past experiences and post processing information. Absorbing info then figuring out what that info means over time. It involves comparing and contrasting internal and external experiences and creating metrics.

Se - "Sensation." Sensation is about real time kinetics. Real time sensory processing. They move thru the world with their senses wide open. 5 senses plus all the rest. Sensation is a real time interactive experience with the world around you using your senses. All of us have this capacity, but as a driver it means it is super charged. All senses are heightened. In an INxJ this function often looks like sensory overindulgence.

Fi - "Authenticity." Deeply introspective. Recognizes the need for individuality and freedom of expression. You focus on how things are impacting you on an emotional level, and ask "What feels right according to my core principles?" When evaluating any decision – Authenticity asks the question “Does this feel right to me?” It’s a feeling process concerned with how the events in your life impact you on a subjective emotional level.

Fe - "Harmony." Harmony has a sophisticated understanding of the dynamic relationship between people. Harmony is the process that naturally understands relationships, interpersonal dynamics and social systems. At its best it wants to get everyone’s needs met and create win/wins. In INTPs, this process needs emotional connection and a sense of contribution. It can show up as a fear that no one respects you, or in times of real stress is that uncharacteristic emotional blow-up that always feels like 'not you'.

With typology, we're still trying to work out the kinks of what each function really is, how to define them the most inclusively for each type, and attempting through research to even out types by incorporating more mindsets into the rarer types, to realize the common S type is not as common as we thought. We may even be able to better map out the notion of quadras and duality, the notion that you get along better with some types than others. The descriptions in the profiles do a pretty decent job at beginning to focus on a type's general mentality > over too many unrelateable specifics. People argue over all the specifics, but if we can agree on a general mental category for each function, then we can get further. So post more descriptions that you find agreeable to the type functions. Here are some videos from the above website about each type.

 

[natalia93]

I really liked the site you cite here and found it quite useful until I noticed a lot of errors when comparing types. Specifically, when comparing INTJ and INFJ there were parts where they either completely contradicted what I have learned to be true of the type or seemed to be mixing up one with the other. Of course, now that I go to post this (in a relative rush) I am unable to link the specific page I'm referring to...
I'll try to find it later and cite it.

The main point though is that I am having trouble finding descriptions or a site that I trust and seems to be undoubtably accurate. Perhaps this is something that I can't get around, but it is frustrating nonetheless.

I do appreciate your descriptions of the cognitive functions here though. Thanks for that, I do believe it gives some clarity.

EDIT: Idk where tf I saw what I was describing in the first paragraph... Maybe I was overtired when I saw that because I can't even find anywhere on that site that allows you to compare differences and similarities between types. My bad.

 

[LucieCat]

These are very good descriptions. Cognitive functions in general are tricky to narrow down.

A problem with only going by dichotomy for J and P is that Perceivers are not always scatter brained, disorganized, and the way people stereotypically think of them as.

For instance, let's say we have an INFP. They are a perceiver and they use dominant Fi. The dominant Fi can sometimes lead the INFP to act in more of a stereotypical J type fashion as this is what feels good and true to themselves. On the flip side, you also would see this in someone with Ti as a strength who may seem more like a J because their internal system of logic dictates that this is simply the way they should act as it makes more sense to them. Thus, I've noticed many P types think they areJ types or test out as such because the actual inherent, introverted decision making process being used isn't being taken into consideration.

 

[Dashy CVII]

Overall, this OP is simply a piece of data, one that I haven't particularly adhered to, nor of course have I adhered to the main MBTI functions, for a couple of reasons.

(a) Many people I know irl relate strongly to contradictory functions, where MBTI didn't do a good job at discerning the types. I myself relate to numerous contradictory functions that make up a 'contradicted' type according to these and MBTI's definitions. For instance, I find many people relate to both Ti and Fi, mainly because Ti here is just the definition of Ti/Te together, and Fi in MBTI is the definition of everyone. I don't think calling Ni 'perceiving various perspectives' is quite correct, because while its true definition is more like detached imagination, I find that types like INTJ and INFJ are less concerned about "perspectives" and "getting into peoples' minds," and more concerned with thinking about solid truths (Te and Fe). Because Inutition is perception-oriented not judgement oriented, it doesn't converge to a single perspective, but holds an open orientation where nothing has real weight, aside from the universal weight of personal value 'ie. this idea or image is shiny, its situationaly valued.' which has nothing to do with Fi, but complete human nature. Perceiving functions are just open functions of different perceptions coming through, Introverted Intuition is the detached imaginative landscape of the mind unrelated to the situational/momentary perception (Ne), a detailed inner world of idea and image perception which takes T and F (being equal) in tandem with generation. The real difference is, compared to Ne, it has little relation to, putting very little care towards, the extraverted object/situation, it doesn't surface with concrete routes but its direction moves deeper and inward. Unlike Thinking Judgement, it has little to do with convergeant statics. Te on the other hand I don't believe has anything to do with 'effectiveness,' because it is primarily concerned with thinking and reason. Because it is concerned with truth via Rationale, not Sensation, it doesn't forfeit thinking by 'reacting' to what works. This is a giant misconception I find in MBTI. The difference between Te and Ti is thinking of the situation/object, vs inner thinking detached from the situation. Processes we all use, but to different degrees.

(b) There have been so many better ways and methods for defining the functions and types, much more useful ways, that get at the heart of how a function is really manifest in a human. For instance, you can go out and find people who are primarily I/N > T/F > S, study them and you have done more to grasp Ni than you have reading MBTI. Ni I find is a fundamental position in many mistypes, whether INxPs, INxJs, ENxPs or ENxJs. The trick with Ne vs Ni is whether the imaginative perceptions are externally related and based, or not at all, a personal world of ideas and imagery. This is how we've messed up the understanding of Extraversion vs Introversion, but have come back to the roots to fix the problem.

These terms like "perspectives," "effectiveness," "exploration," are mostly useless. All Perception is exploration. In any case, I do adhere to functions and quadras > over preferences.