I am dating a man that is ISTP we also work together throughout the day. I do my job he does his but he often calls me to take care of things for him, and enjoys having lunch with me or maybe he just enjoys the fact I take care of everything for him? He has said he loves me and we've been together for two years known each other for 4. I being a strong ESTJ do things in life for him because I enjoy it and that's how I show my love for him. He on the other hand is living entirely in the present, and I know his personality has difficulty with long-term commitments he also is not good at expressing feelings and emotions nor is he tuned in to what I'm feeling, which I often feel he is being insensitive. I also know he needs his personal space, which I don't invade on purpose. Which leads me to my question... I rent my home, he owns his. We tend to be together all weekend at his place and lately I have been just living there all week ( it just kinda happened). So I asked him what he would like me to do, stop renting my house or just stay on the weekends with him? He made some funny crack and changed the subject; so I moved out. What on earth is he thinking?
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[MBTI General] femaile ESTJ dating ISTP
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ZNP-TBA
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Being an ESTJ you want a clear destination for your relationship. You want to know what the end-game looks like and what methods are going to be used to get there. In other words, you probably prefer a smooth plot from point to point until you get to where you want to be in the relationship.
As far as he goes, like you said, he lives in the present. He might be just enjoying the ride as it's going and puts less weight on the destination. That doesn't mean he doesn't want a future with you but his focus is more focused on the present.
As far as he goes, like you said, he lives in the present. He might be just enjoying the ride as it's going and puts less weight on the destination. That doesn't mean he doesn't want a future with you but his focus is more focused on the present.
I get that about both of us, but how do I communicate that with him? Am I wasting my time with him? Is this ever going to go anywhere, I feel like he is in it for all the benefits, not because he loves me, and I'm not talking about the sex, its that I do things for him that no one ever has in his life. HIs friends all love me and tell him how great I am for him, but I would like to hear that from him.
We farm 3000 acres. He loved working and lives for it. He is had passed relationships that did not enjoy working with him nor did they support him, I do both. I go out of my way to make him feel appreciated since I know he has not had that in his life. We work together well and we play hard together on the weekends. He is hard-working no matter what it is he does whether it's at home or at work. What I don't understand is that I often feel that he can take it or leave it if I'm here it's good if I'm not it's good. Am I taking this too personally and I looking too deep into this? He seems to expect me to be around when he wants to go do something together. If I stayed here never moved out he be good with that and he is good with it that I'm not here. I'm confused and I'm hurt.
ZNP-TBA
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S16M4
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I'm the same way. Quick to move on. Not good at showing emotional intimacy. Showing practical affection is more my style. Maybe he is too? Don't change what you started with him, because that might let him down and give him reason to move on. Unless you want him to. it sounds like he enjoys your company. Once I find someone willing to put up with me, I remain loyal. Just don't show it because it's obvious inside. Ya dig? Just my perspective.
if emotions are absolutely necessary, try turning affection into a habit of his.
That's very helpful. That is also my concern. He will move on if I change the way things are. I don't want to give him a reason to do so. I'm just confused at how to behave , I don't want to be taken advantage of. Can you understand ? Am I making it to easy for him being as giving as I am? Is that a weakness in his eyes or is it appreciated and he just doesn't know how to respond?
ChocolateMoose123
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He's not ready to move in with you.
That is essentially a marriage proposal. Which we don't need but we look at it the same way.
I dated two ESTJ's in LTR's, I have a soft spot for the type but...there are some big hurdles between the types and sometimes it's 99% perfect but the 1% is enough to not make it work. Depends on a lot.
To give you an example, I've been in a LTR for 4 years. He is not an ESTJ. He spends all his time at my place. His lease ended. I never mentioned him moving in and he never asked. Which, was...smart. And ESTJ, it doesn't matter that this would save me money, etc. That is not motivation for giving up freedom and privacy.
I don't know...one day I asked if he found a place and he said not yet. I told him if he wanted to move in with me temporarily until he found another place? He said yes.
Now, is it temporarily? I don't know. To me, I said it and I guess I am okay with it long term. Otherwise, I wouldn't have brought it up. But it's not like I mulled it over before throwing it out there. It just felt right.
But if he pushed the idea? I don't know. I probably would have dug my heels in.
I realize this isn't much of an answer but it's the best I have.
ChocolateMoose123
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I don't know this ISTP so I don't want to comment too much on what he may think, and I re-read my last post and it sounded kind of harsh. Wasn't meant to be but I don't have enough info on your ISTP.
Regarding you: If you are starting to resent doing these things because of a lack of verbal gratitude - that's valid. Talk to him.
If you are doing these things to 'keep' him around, meh. I think you have built the relationship too much around that and not a deeper bond. But this could also be in your head, and not necessarily what is coming from him. Like I said, I don't know where he is in all this.
Why else would you worry it would change the dynamic? That's my thought on that.
Anyway, I can speak for myself, as long as you are there for him? Spend time with him, laugh together, etc. You can back off on some of the things you are doing for him that he can do himself. He did those things before he met you, I take it?
See what happens. Does he notice or care? That may not be what draws him to you and you may be putting more emphasis on those things than he is.
I can see me just thinking "ESTJ does that because she likes to do it." And not thinking that you are going out of your way. Or doing it for him explicitly.
Better question: does he actively seek time with you? If not, I that brings other questions.
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Then your relationship doesn't sound reciprocal which is usually a bad sign. If you think he will move on if you are honest about your feelings and you 'hold back' to keep him in a relationship with you isn't that kind of manipulating him then? I think you just answered your own questions here. In my view it's usually never a great relationship to have to hide things in fear of the relationship failing. Such a relationship has bad foundations from the get-go and no amount of superficial redecorating will fix that problem.
This seems more like a problem with you than him. Why do you feel the need to be in this relationship so badly especially if you think he will dump you if you are honest about your feelings? Why the heck would you allow yourself to be in that kind of relationship especially if you're a hardworking, successful, intelligent, ESTJ woman?
PS: Think about it this way. Why is it that you can openly express these concerns to random people on the internet but not to your partner? Shouldn't your partner be the person you most trust in this world and are most comfortable expressing your deepest sentiments to?
Being an ESTJ you want a clear destination for your relationship. You want to know what the end-game looks like and what methods are going to be used to get there. In other words, you probably prefer a smooth plot from point to point until you get to where you want to be in the relationship.
Pretty much sones if up
Pretty much sones if up
chubber
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I have to wonder about the irony here. The ESTJ that doesn't have a problem with long term thinking, is the one who is renting. He, the ISTP, is "living in the present", but he is the one who owns the property. Sorry, I just find it funny. To be honest he seems to be the one who is the long term thinker, he is secure in his property and not paying somebody else's bond for them, while he gets to save for his future.
But anyway, what is he thinking? Probably his future.
But anyway, what is he thinking? Probably his future.
Cloudpatrol
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You have identified two dilemmas:
1.
2.
Number one (YOUR thoughts and feelings) requires clarity before number two (EXTERNAL person’s thoughts and needs) can be addressed.
Were you co-workers or romantic partner’s first? Was there ever discussion on how working together would impact the personal side of things?
Do you know this or are you interpreting his actions as 'saying' this?
How is it possible to know what is in another’s mind without asking?
I sometimes make jokes to avoid answering if I need to think first. Or to avoid discomfort. Or because I have a dumb sense of humour. Or because I think it will make the other person laugh. Do you KNOW why he cracked wise? That it was dismissive?
You are receiving (good) advice to honor his way of doing things and communicating.
First: what do you want and need? Are you gut-satisfied with the level of communication and affirmation you are currently receiving?
This sounds positive…like your economic needs and external social needs are being met.
Still, you are
Give thought to what - in impartial terms - you want a relationship to look like.
Even write down the things you ideally would desire or seek out. Then decide what aspects are deal-breakers and what you could compromise on.
Only then, compare your relationship to what you have written down.
-You sound invested and he sounds like someone who has good qualities and is deserving of support. So, what part do you play in ‘being taken advantage of’? Does he expect you to do the things you do or did you offer them from a place of love and now they have become a ‘new normal’? How are you training him to treat/view you?
I would take seriously the advice to honor his thinking and style. At the same time, don’t discount the suggestion for open communication.
-You don’t have to be accusing when you tell him how you are feeling. There is a difference between sharing feelings OR issuing ultimatums/making someone jump to your time-line expectations.
He can’t fill your needs capably unless 1) You help him to be aware of them and 2) you are clear on them yourself. What you will and won’t accept. Bottling your feelings up and simmering in resentment or hurt won’t bode well for long-term success.
1.
2.
Number one (YOUR thoughts and feelings) requires clarity before number two (EXTERNAL person’s thoughts and needs) can be addressed.
Were you co-workers or romantic partner’s first? Was there ever discussion on how working together would impact the personal side of things?
Do you know this or are you interpreting his actions as 'saying' this?
How is it possible to know what is in another’s mind without asking?
I sometimes make jokes to avoid answering if I need to think first. Or to avoid discomfort. Or because I have a dumb sense of humour. Or because I think it will make the other person laugh. Do you KNOW why he cracked wise? That it was dismissive?
You are receiving (good) advice to honor his way of doing things and communicating.
First: what do you want and need? Are you gut-satisfied with the level of communication and affirmation you are currently receiving?
This sounds positive…like your economic needs and external social needs are being met.
Still, you are
Give thought to what - in impartial terms - you want a relationship to look like.
Even write down the things you ideally would desire or seek out. Then decide what aspects are deal-breakers and what you could compromise on.
Only then, compare your relationship to what you have written down.
-You sound invested and he sounds like someone who has good qualities and is deserving of support. So, what part do you play in ‘being taken advantage of’? Does he expect you to do the things you do or did you offer them from a place of love and now they have become a ‘new normal’? How are you training him to treat/view you?
I would take seriously the advice to honor his thinking and style. At the same time, don’t discount the suggestion for open communication.
-You don’t have to be accusing when you tell him how you are feeling. There is a difference between sharing feelings OR issuing ultimatums/making someone jump to your time-line expectations.
He can’t fill your needs capably unless 1) You help him to be aware of them and 2) you are clear on them yourself. What you will and won’t accept. Bottling your feelings up and simmering in resentment or hurt won’t bode well for long-term success.
You have identified two dilemmas:
1.
2.
Number one (YOUR thoughts and feelings) requires clarity before number two (EXTERNAL person’s thoughts and needs) can be addressed.
Were you co-workers or romantic partner’s first? Was there ever discussion on how working together would impact the personal side of things? WE WERE CO WORKERS FIRST AND NEVER HAVE DISCUSSED WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE
Do you know this or are you interpreting his actions as 'saying' this?
I'm INTERPRETING
How is it possible to know what is in another’s mind without asking?
I sometimes make jokes to avoid answering if I need to think first. Or to avoid discomfort. Or because I have a dumb sense of humour. Or because I think it will make the other person laugh. Do you KNOW why he cracked wise? That it was dismissive?
I ASKED HIM ABOUT MAKING A JOKE AND AGAIN HE AVOIDED IT
You are receiving (good) advice to honor his way of doing things and communicating.
I'm TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HIM AND BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE IN HIS LANGUAGE.
First: what do you want and need? Are you gut-satisfied with the level of communication and affirmation you are currently receiving?
NO, I DON'T GET ANY AFFIRMATION AND I ASSUME IT BECAUSE OF HIS PERSONALITY TRAITS. IT WOULD BE NICE BUT HE SEES NO REASON TO GIVE ANY UNLESS YOU ARE LACKING CONFIDENCE HE SAYS. I ALSO AM STRUGGLING IN COMMUNICATING ANYTHING ON A PERSONAL LEVEL. WE TALK NONE STOP BUT NOT ABOUT FEELINGS!
This sounds positive…like your economic needs and external social needs are being met.
Still, you are
Give thought to what - in impartial terms - you want a relationship to look like.
Even write down the things you ideally would desire or seek out. Then decide what aspects are deal-breakers and what you could compromise on.
Only then, compare your relationship to what you have written down.
I WILL DO THAT, THANK YOU FOR THE IDEA
-You sound invested and he sounds like someone who has good qualities and is deserving of support. So, what part do you play in ‘being taken advantage of’? Does he expect you to do the things you do or did you offer them from a place of love and now they have become a ‘new normal’? How are you training him to treat/view you?
I GUESS I'VE TRAIN HIM WRONG LOL. THIS IS HOW I SHOW LOVE SO I GUESS I CAN'T SAY HE'S TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ME AND IF I DON'T TELL HIM WHAT I NEED HOW CAN I EXPECT HIM TO DO IT.
I would take seriously the advice to honor his thinking and style. At the same time, don’t discount the suggestion for open communication.
-You don’t have to be accusing when you tell him how you are feeling. There is a difference between sharing feelings OR issuing ultimatums/making someone jump to your time-line expectations.
AGREE
He can’t fill your needs capably unless 1) You help him to be aware of them and 2) you are clear on them yourself. What you will and won’t accept. Bottling your feelings up and simmering in resentment or hurt won’t bode well for long-term success.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND I WILL CERTAINLY TAKE IT TO HEART
