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[Fe] The abyss of inferior Ti

á´…eparted

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Inferior Fi is often referenced as a particularly important development point for Te doms, and a frequent source of non-productive pain. I often saw parallels to my own experiences in this, but not the same.

Inferior Ti in Fe doms is seldom talked about, to the point where it really isn't well understood. I know I experience it, and it can be immensely painful. It has taken until about now to begin to grasp at what it is, what it does, and what is like to fall into that abyss. When I have time I will write it out, but I first want to start the discussion.

For Fe doms, what do you make of it? For non Fe doms, how would you describe it or think would be hallmarks of its experience.

Discuss. Please tag known Fe doms because I am blanking on all but [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION] right now.
 

Yama

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I'm not an Fe dom, and I'm still pretty young so my tertiary and inferior functions still have some developing to do, but I'll still give my 2 cents because why not. :)

When I think of Ti, I imagine it's something like "wanting to know how/why things work", whatever said "things" may be. Usually in my case, I don't really care how they work. I just care that it does (or doesn't) work. I find in times of stress when I am unsure what kind of decision to make, I can be easily influenced by Ti. People will give me advice and I'll think "Oh, that makes sense, maybe I should do that."

That being said, I think I used to be in an Si-Ti loop. Around the time I graduated from high school and started college, my depression reached some extremes it had never seen before (because everything was changing so fast!). This, I think, is part of the reason I was so wary to accept if I was an Fe-user or not.

I think there is a lot about Ti that I don't quite yet understand, so I will be watching this thread very carefully. I'm eager to see what others have to say. :D
 

Cellmold

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I mark it as the moment I go inwards after so much outer existence. It's not done voluntarily and is disarming.

Suddenly I'm inadequate, irritable and moody. I'm projecting this onto others and most obviously clash with stronger Ti types, there is evidence on here and certainly has been on vent, though perhaps people may not have noticed except those directly involved. Lots of criticism thrown out about others but without any of the considered and impersonal quality of a balanced Ti type.

A mild obsession with logical consistency, but often with tons of holes and personal bias. Lots of poor speculating about others and their motivations (everyone is against me paranoia). If adhered to without using it as an opportunity to learn it can turn into a huge and childish outburst for me resulting in a non-literal form of self destruction of what I once was in identity.

Takes quite a while to recover after this and I retreat into existentialism and looking for some magical outward object that will solve all my problems. But no such object exists and I eventually realise I need to examine myself when before I had been avoiding it.

Then I learn a form of understanding which is a coping mechanism to diffuse my negative approach to the abyss. A cognitive protection such as is employed by any human to survive in comparative sanity.

Then I try to absorb the trigger and understand it for next time, to be more prepared for it.
 

Yama

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^I can actually relate to a lot of this as well.
 

Showbread

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Ooh, this is a fun thread. I won't have time tonight, but I promise to revisit tomorrow. [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION], remind me if I forget!
 

Poki

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I am interested to see my dom function as inferior and it's manifestation from someone with same functions
 

Forever

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Well I own her book so I don't feel bad about copypasta:

Recognizing the Inferior Function in ESFJ's and ENFJ's:

 

Forever

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Here's Part 2:
 

SearchingforPeace

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Here's Part 2:

Ugh, I recognize a lot of myself in that description. You got that INFJ there, too? I plan to buy her book, but now I am more confused about which NFJ I am.....
 

Forever

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Ugh, I recognize a lot of myself in that description. You got that INFJ there, too? I plan to buy her book, but now I am more confused about which NFJ I am.....

Yeah not for this thread though. :)
 

Poki

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I know when dealing with my ex the most frustrating thing for myself, a dom Ti, is her inconsistent lack of logic to get her way. She will use logical reasoning only to at a later point turn it around and do what she was against because all of a sudden her situation changed. So the logic used against me no longer applies. Her reasoning and logic is very goal driven as opposed to big picture driven. It almost like it's an attempt to control external logic. With certain types they are very good and it works, but dom Ti can see through it. The only thing is that I swear she believes this logic and not quite as manipulative as it sounds. Almost like a combination of F and T cause the logic to become what she believes. I don't know. Just a bit of what I see.

I am just speaking from my experience with ENFJ. She always said I was her voice of reason because she had to much of a fight or speak before thinking.

I am purely speaking through info only. No emotions or anything behind it. I am curious to see how it is from inside a dom Fe. I still have to deal with my ex because of my son and I am always looking for better ways to communicate because ours is very hit or miss. It's like tossing marbles into a field of land mines. Both ways, not just her blowing up. We just blow up in different ways.
 

Kheledon

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I, an ENFJ, have been stuck in my inferior function (Ti) for over a year at this point, and the two "spoilers" posted by Forever nail my current behavior on the head.

Well done, and thank you. :scream:
 

á´…eparted

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I, an ENFJ, have been stuck in my inferior function (Ti) for over a year at this point, and the two "spoilers" posted by Forever nail my current behavior on the head.

Well done, and thank you. :scream:

Just taking a moment to say I am estatic to see someone who is the same mbti type AND enneagram type as myself! Never thought I'd see it :D.
 

Kheledon

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Kind of sad, in its own way, but it happens. Male ENFJs are rare enough--just 1% of the population, but Enneagram Type 1 ENFJ males are incredibly rare.

Nice to meet you! :cheese:
 

á´…eparted

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Kind of sad, in its own way, but it happens. Male ENFJs are rare enough--just 1% of the population, but Enneagram Type 1 ENFJ males are incredibly rare.

Nice to meet you! :cheese:

Nah I don't think we're all that rare TBH. I mean think about it, Even if we are 1% of the population (I'd argue it's at least 4 times higher), that's still 70 million people; quite a bit. Though while ENFJ-1 is uncommon, it's more common than ENFJ- 5 and 9 for sure. The rest it'd be hard to tell. The most common combos are easily ENFJ 2 and 3.
 

Bush

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Hi, I'm jscrothers, and I'm a complete buzzkill. In part because I'm not exactly a strong believer in JCF in the first place. I was tagged and I'm also somewhat related to the topic, so I'm gonna say my thing

I'm trying to tease out what exactly can be attributed to some inferior Ti.

Seems like Quenk is saying that Fe types are sent into a deep, dark hole of Ti when they're overly criticized, not well-understood, or placed in an environment rife with conflict. And further that, when they're there, they become stoic, overly analytical, critical of others, glaringly illogical, and robbed of self-worth. Sure, I could see it.

But the majority of people don't like excessive criticism or being misunderstood. A majority also become critical, illogical (especially when they're lashing out and overly-emotional), and robbed of self-worth when they've been pushed over. That seems really, really common.

... well, I'm not a complete buzzkill.

There are many coping mechanisms out there. Stoicism and criticizing outwardly? That's just "putting up a wall," and it's a phenomenon that we have all heard of before. But I wonder how many people tend toward that particular coping mechanism. After all, some lash out. Some become aggressive toward the outside world and also look for things in the outside world that they could see as aggressors, so as to justify how they feel.

I know that, at my lowest of lows, I'm virtually always stoic, uncaring, disengaged, and blanked-out. "Putting up a wall" is the thing that I do. That's how I feel, and it's how others perceive me as well. If the majority doesn't put up a wall, then this may point to what "inferior Ti" looks like.

(I could address the rest of Quenk etc., but that's probably outside of our scope. There's a lot of stuff that I know isn't true for me.)
 

á´…eparted

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Hi, I'm jscrothers, and I'm a complete buzzkill. In part because I'm not exactly a strong believer in JCF in the first place. I was tagged and I'm also somewhat related to the topic, so I'm gonna say my thing

I'm trying to tease out what exactly can be attributed to some inferior Ti.

Seems like Quenk is saying that Fe types are sent into a deep, dark hole of Ti when they're overly criticized, not well-understood, or placed in an environment rife with conflict. And further that, when they're there, they become stoic, overly analytical, critical of others, glaringly illogical, and robbed of self-worth. Sure, I could see it.

But the majority of people don't like excessive criticism or being misunderstood. A majority also become critical, illogical (especially when they're lashing out and overly-emotional), and robbed of self-worth when they've been pushed over. That seems really, really common.

... well, I'm not a complete buzzkill.

There are many coping mechanisms out there. Stoicism and criticizing outwardly? That's just "putting up a wall," and it's a phenomenon that we have all heard of before. But I wonder how many people tend toward that particular coping mechanism. After all, some lash out. Some become aggressive toward the outside world and also look for things in the outside world that they could see as aggressors, so as to justify how they feel.

I know that, at my lowest of lows, I'm virtually always stoic, uncaring, disengaged, and blanked-out. "Putting up a wall" is the thing that I do. That's how I feel, and it's how others perceive me as well. If the majority doesn't put up a wall, then this may point to what "inferior Ti" looks like.

(I could address the rest of Quenk etc., but that's probably outside of our scope. There's a lot of stuff that I know isn't true for me.)

I need to wait until I have a long sitdown moment to write out a reply to my own OP (I should be working right now too...), but this hits on a point I was going bring up in regards to [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION]'s article quote. While I definitely definitely relate a ton to what's written for what happens when in the inferior in a bad way, it strikes me as kinda... generic? It fits but lacks a ton of nuance. I feel like it could apply to many people (though not all). I have the book as well (read parts of it earlier this year) and honestly I found most of it to be written too much to fit the forer effect. Not "wrong" but not very impactful either. How I am supposed to fall to the inferior I don't really relate to at all. I kinda do a little bit, but it's a stretch, but it is largely because I don't relate to "classic" descrptions of ENFJ's (they're much to flowery/kind/alutristic).
 

SearchingforPeace

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Yeah not for this thread though. :)

Well, I am interested, because on my second read of your posted material, it seemed to be extreme versions of my Ti, not anything I jump into. Even during my long years of repressing emotions, I was usually still a sunny, happy person externally. I definitely relate to the parts of it here and there.....or a lot of parts..... indulging in sensation activities tends to get me out my mind over thinking.....

I don't ever feel my logic is ever "twisted".... But I could be wrong....
 

á´…eparted

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I know when dealing with my ex the most frustrating thing for myself, a dom Ti, is her inconsistent lack of logic to get her way. She will use logical reasoning only to at a later point turn it around and do what she was against because all of a sudden her situation changed. So the logic used against me no longer applies. Her reasoning and logic is very goal driven as opposed to big picture driven. It almost like it's an attempt to control external logic. With certain types they are very good and it works, but dom Ti can see through it. The only thing is that I swear she believes this logic and not quite as manipulative as it sounds. Almost like a combination of F and T cause the logic to become what she believes. I don't know. Just a bit of what I see.

I am just speaking from my experience with ENFJ. She always said I was her voice of reason because she had to much of a fight or speak before thinking.

I am purely speaking through info only. No emotions or anything behind it. I am curious to see how it is from inside a dom Fe. I still have to deal with my ex because of my son and I am always looking for better ways to communicate because ours is very hit or miss. It's like tossing marbles into a field of land mines. Both ways, not just her blowing up. We just blow up in different ways.

Well, your ex certainly sounds like myself and my experiences with others at times. Even my mother (an INFJ 9w8) would occasionally find me illogical when I am in the grip of something (though 90% of the time I am more logical than her and we both agree on this). Often citing "you're being so black and white!", a huge core source of broken inferior-Ti logic. Effectively, Ti become desparate to distill everything town into a binary, easy to follow logic system; "if you do this, this will happen, and if you do that, that will happen. Those lead to this and that and THAT IS HOW IT IS." and there absolutely zero wiggle room left for it. I'll purposefully remove wiggle room in a "logical" manner so it's easy to follow. I will be absolutely convinced and resolute that I am right, and will do everything in my power to prove it or make it so. I also have a tendancy to take logic "case by case" and each case gets it's own custom fit logic. The thing is, in the day to day this works amazingly well and is a huge way for how I navigate the world, but it doesn't work everywhere. When a Ti dom comes along and tries to poke it (successful or not) it can be enraging, because we do NOT want it poked. At all. We want it to work, see the system as sound, and therefore it's an axiom not to be questioned.

ENFJ's are super super goal driven, and when the chips are down, we still don't let go, and will drag even the most terrible hodge-podge hobgoblin over the finishline, and pity the fool who tries to touch it. Once the line is crossed though, we tend to relent (or turn into a crying puddle on the floor).
 
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