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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    This sounds reasonable, and I’m inclined to agree but everyone I know who has ( or claims to have) trauma issues has at least one therapist, a social worker and God-knows how many support groups.

    Do you think it’s that while treatment is available, it is just not effective? Do they use too much of a “ standard-issue” one -size fits all” approach”? Or, do you think it’s more that the ones who really need help don’t ask and aren’t offered it? .
    Oh boy I am opening that can of worms I prob should reconsider.

    I think sometimes, in certain areas, you find this problem more than others. Idaho (the state I reside in) has one of the highest suicide rates of any state and after walking through a trip into Idaho mental health treatment I can see why. A majority of people working in the mental health offices are social workers, there are also few of them that actually really care and read negative signs that are going to lead to an outburst. I saw someone's signs, asked one of them to check up, they said she'd be fine. she punched a wall and broke her hand. FANTASTIC, I DON'T EVEN HAVE A DEGREE AND I WAS DOING A BETTER JOB. WOOT. My favorite session was when they asked us all our coping mechanisms, and considering every damn one of us was there for substance abuse, self harm, or a suicide attempt, I am sure we're the absolute BEST people to ask about GOOD COPING MECHANISMS. Maybe remove the word "good" and go "so to get started, how are you coping now, if at all?" Oh my god take a communication class. and you know the fact two girls started personally attacking the self harmers in a group therapy session and all that happened after was me and the other girl trying to make it stop got a pat on the back saying you were so open good job! as if you know, it was okay they did not try and explain it or shut it down more so people weren't being negatively insulted IN A FUCKING SUPPORT GROUP.

    Outpatient was a little better since, you know, you choose your therapist. I do feel sometimes, particularly here, I was with two different therapists before my tenure was over for now. It did kind of feel like both used the same techniques, same words, although I consistently told them some of the anti-anxiety regimes they were giving me were not working that well, they continued to push them on me. I realize it is a retraining of the thoughts but when some of them give me more anxiety than reduce it, I think you should listen to your patient.

    Now something since I've lived a bit more I wasn't aware of much before is different kinds of therapy existing. As in, I perhaps need a therapist with a different therapy theory than the ones I was using. Even then, I think a psychologist should try and be familiar with many of the theories so in different times and different patients they can utilize ideas.

    I also would like to point out, at least here, and I know of an online friend in Minnesota who needs to see a therapist twice a week, there is very little coverage for mental health. And many of the mental health things in my state, at the time particularly, were support groups. And after experience A I am sure I ever wanted to step foot in a full on support group again.

    Weirdest for me though, I found some of the people there to be better therapists to me than the actual therapists, who rarely took the time to actually sit and talk to us 1x1 like they were supposed to. I think Idaho is understaffed for the mental health crisis we have and it pays a huge price, involving lives that could be saved. Many of those girls had been there 2, 3, even 5 times. And people kept sending them back to abusive homes, without proper treatment. I was happy they sent the one girl to state finally, because her father emotionally abused her to the point she was bulimic.

    Yea. It varies.
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  2. #22
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Alice Miller in "For Your Own Good" writes brilliantly about trauma and empathy, click on http://playpen.icomtek.csir.co.za/~a...licemiller.pdf

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hummingbird Spirit View Post
    Oh boy I am opening that can of worms I prob should reconsider.

    I think sometimes, in certain areas, you find this problem more than others. Idaho (the state I reside in) has one of the highest suicide rates of any state and after walking through a trip into Idaho mental health treatment I can see why. A majority of people working in the mental health offices are social workers, there are also few of them that actually really care and read negative signs that are going to lead to an outburst. I saw someone's signs, asked one of them to check up, they said she'd be fine. she punched a wall and broke her hand. FANTASTIC, I DON'T EVEN HAVE A DEGREE AND I WAS DOING A BETTER JOB. WOOT. My favorite session was when they asked us all our coping mechanisms, and considering every damn one of us was there for substance abuse, self harm, or a suicide attempt, I am sure we're the absolute BEST people to ask about GOOD COPING MECHANISMS. Maybe remove the word "good" and go "so to get started, how are you coping now, if at all?" Oh my god take a communication class. and you know the fact two girls started personally attacking the self harmers in a group therapy session and all that happened after was me and the other girl trying to make it stop got a pat on the back saying you were so open good job! as if you know, it was okay they did not try and explain it or shut it down more so people weren't being negatively insulted IN A FUCKING SUPPORT GROUP.

    Outpatient was a little better since, you know, you choose your therapist. I do feel sometimes, particularly here, I was with two different therapists before my tenure was over for now. It did kind of feel like both used the same techniques, same words, although I consistently told them some of the anti-anxiety regimes they were giving me were not working that well, they continued to push them on me. I realize it is a retraining of the thoughts but when some of them give me more anxiety than reduce it, I think you should listen to your patient.

    Now something since I've lived a bit more I wasn't aware of much before is different kinds of therapy existing. As in, I perhaps need a therapist with a different therapy theory than the ones I was using. Even then, I think a psychologist should try and be familiar with many of the theories so in different times and different patients they can utilize ideas.

    I also would like to point out, at least here, and I know of an online friend in Minnesota who needs to see a therapist twice a week, there is very little coverage for mental health. And many of the mental health things in my state, at the time particularly, were support groups. And after experience A I am sure I ever wanted to step foot in a full on support group again.

    Weirdest for me though, I found some of the people there to be better therapists to me than the actual therapists, who rarely took the time to actually sit and talk to us 1x1 like they were supposed to. I think Idaho is understaffed for the mental health crisis we have and it pays a huge price, involving lives that could be saved. Many of those girls had been there 2, 3, even 5 times. And people kept sending them back to abusive homes, without proper treatment. I was happy they sent the one girl to state finally, because her father emotionally abused her to the point she was bulimic.

    Yea. It varies.
    Ick.
    I know something about social workers and support groups. I would absolutley not reccomend either.
    " Do something, even if it's wrong."

    " I don't wanna have to but I will, if that's what I'm supposed to do
    We don't wanna set up for the kill, but that's what I'm 'bout to do."
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  4. #24
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I was going to write out something similar to ceecee's post^. I think it only increases empathy when the trauma is effectively emotionally processed. (And more often than not, trauma is not effectively emotionally processed). When it's not, it causes background preoccupation with the self - and when there's some kind of pain/suffering causing a preoccupation with the self, others become little more than extensions of our own reality (instead of being able to view others as others in their own right, taking responsibility for how our actions effect them).

    Or something.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    Ick.
    I know something about social workers and support groups. I would absolutley not reccomend either.
    I'll fight you to the death

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellmold View Post
    This is a well thought out cartoon.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'll fight you to the death

    [COLOR="silver"]- - - Updated - - -[/COLOR.
    That’s what they said. And I’m still around to type this.
    " Do something, even if it's wrong."

    " I don't wanna have to but I will, if that's what I'm supposed to do
    We don't wanna set up for the kill, but that's what I'm 'bout to do."

  7. #27
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    Depends on the person

  8. #28
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    Ick.
    I know something about social workers and support groups. I would absolutley not reccomend either.
    I would not recommend support groups either, based on my own experiences with them. Social workers, most I know are very dedicated people that lack much of the resource tools to do their job. But that is how things function in this country - underfund and underfund so that something barely works. Then voters will be more likely to support privatizing/for profit since anything is better than what currently exists.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    That’s what they said. And I’m still around to type this.
    I can understand your view of them then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    Depends on the person
    Yeah, I do think there are a lot of variables at stake, constitutional and character factors no doubt play a big part.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I would not recommend support groups either, based on my own experiences with them. Social workers, most I know are very dedicated people that lack much of the resource tools to do their job. But that is how things function in this country - underfund and underfund so that something barely works. Then voters will be more likely to support privatizing/for profit since anything is better than what currently exists.
    That's what's happening to the health service in this country, social services and other care services are all managed under the same umbrella as part of the one service administered by a series of Trusts. In the rest of the UK I think there may be divisions between the social services and care services, managed by local authorities, and the health service, managed by Trusts. The tactic is the same though.

    I thought that US had a more pluralistic system, like adoption services, foster services, even some hospitals and medical services being provided by churches, I know the RCC used to own and manage some hospitals at least, even if they are largely secularised now. I'm not saying its any better, I know that a lot of conservatives here in the UK see it as a desirable alternative to system we have and imagine that it will materialise, somehow, I dont know how to be honest, if they simply privatise or simply stop delivering services at tax payer expense.

    I've even spoken to some conservatives who've said that they think professions like social work are pointless anyway, either something that should be delivered by charities or which is a kind of revival of the poor law anyway, working with people in crisis being something akin to unpicking a large rope and then binding it up again to be unpicked the next day. That sort of thinking really bugs me but it does endure and is very strong among certain constituencies and they always vote.

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