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[Type 1] what really is enneagram 1?

yeghor

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8-9-1 are ENVIRONMENT-CONTROL-SEEKERS
I think this includes 9 as well. If you say "Action" center, again, 9s are hard to see there; but with my shorthand, I think it captures the theme of the 3 of them: they all want to control they environment by controlling boundaries:
8 assert (their id) and enforce boundaries outwardly
1 comply (to the superego) and enforce boundaries inwardly
9 withdraw (their ego) and get stuck enforcing boundaries both outwardly and inwardly

In this clip, Shinji is piloting an articial giant humanoid called EVA, that ran out of power in the middle of the fight and has become immobile. He is located inside a womb like chamber filled with some substance similar to amniotic fluid.

His unit somehow awakens and begins to operate on its own, and it becomes raw "id", and toward the end of the clip starts dismantling the armor plates placed on it. We then learn that those plates (superego) were placed to subjugate EVA's beastly "id" nature and make it controllable by the pilot (ego). It's a good representation of what happens when superego and ego collapses or are weak relative to id.

EVA 01 Berserk
 

mancino

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Nice debate, @yeghor ! I'm very attracted to E1 issues as I was born and raised in a heavy E1 environment, both at home (E1 mother), at school, at church and in general values and attitudes. So I can speak from experience as well.
However, to be quicker I'd like to quote some more stuff from more authoritative sources than myself:
This is Claudio Naranjo from "Character and Neurosis", in the Chapter about E1, opening section:

Yes, there is anger in the heart, mostly in the form of resentment, yet not so prominently as anger may be experienced by the lusty, the envious, or the cowardly. As for verbal behavior, it is most characteristic of the anger type to be controlled in the expression of anger, in any of its explicit forms: we are in the presence of a well-behaved, civilized type, not a spontaneous one. In regard to action, ennea-type I individuals do express anger, yet mostlyunconsciously, not only to themselves but to others, for they do so in a way that is typically rationalized; in fact, much of this personality may be understood as a reaction formation against anger; a denial of destructiveness through a deliberate, well-intentioned attitude.

Oscar Ichazo’s definition of anger as a “standing against reality” has the merit of addressing a more basic issue than the feeling or expression of emotion. Still, it may be useful to point out at the outset that the label “anger type” is scarcely evocative of the typical psychological characteristics of the personality style in question—which is critical and demanding rather than consciously hateful or rude. Ichazo called the ennea-type “ego-resent,” which seems a psychologically more exact portrayal of the emotional disposition involved: one of protest and assertive claims rather than mere irritability. In my own teaching experience, I started out calling the character’s fixation “intentional goodness”; later I shifted to labeling it “perfectionism.” This seems appropriate to designate a rejection of what is in terms of what is felt and believed should be.

So: anger but not like a reactive type (4-6-8), because it is CONTROLLED (inward control). Reaction formation against anger: displaying the opposite of what's felt. This is inner control.
However, normal behavior is "deliberate, well-intentioned attitude" aka moralism. Not real morals per se: the Intellectual Formula that's been mentioned: Te. Of course, Te is paired with either Si or Ni by necessity.
"Protest and assertive" claims is quite compatible with E. Actually, E is basically high energy and receptiveness towards rewards in the environment, so quite action oriented (J). J is the core of this type.

From the list of traits:

Dominance

Though already implicit in intellectual criticism, which would be without force if not in a context of moral or intellectual authority, and implicit also in the controlling-demanding-disciplinarian characteristic (for how would that be effective without authority), it seems appropriate to regard dominance as a relatively independent trait, comprising such descriptors as an autocratic style, a self-confident and dignified assertiveness, an aristocratic self-concept and a superior, haughty, disdainful and perhaps condescending and patronizing demeanor. Dominance, too, may be regarded as an implicit expression or a transformation of anger, yet this orientation towards a position of power entails subordinate strategies as the above and also a sense of entitlement on the basis of high standards, diligence, cultural and family background, intelligence, and so on.
Hardly the description of an introvert. Assertiveness, dominance, patronising,.. actually I wouldn't see a very strong I being compatible!

Over-Control

What dominance—a transformation of anger—is to others, self-control is to perfectionism. Excessive control over one’s behaviors goes hand-in-hand with a characteristic rigidity, a sense of awkwardness, a lack of spontaneity with the consequent difficulty to function in non-structured situations and whenever improvisation is required. To others the over-control may result in boringness. Excessive control over one’s self extends, beyond outer behaviors to psychological functioning in general, so that thinking becomes excessively rule bound, i.e. logical and methodical, with loss of creativity and leaps of intuition. Control over feeling, on the other hand, leads not only to the blocking of emotional expression but even to alienation from emotional experience.
I put this quote too because IMHO it argues my usual claim that real, true Intuition / Openness to experience is incompatible with this type. E1 is really, truly an STJ at the core.
I know there are a lot of famous INTJ E1 (Batman) or INFJ (Ghandi), but they are the exception, not the rule.

If one is sure about being E1 and types as either F or N, I would strongly suggest they question their MBTI preferences. They can be right, or not.
 

mancino

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Actually Naranjo typed Ghandi as sp 6... there you have it!
 

yeghor

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Nice debate, @yeghor ! I'm very attracted to E1 issues as I was born and raised in a heavy E1 environment, both at home (E1 mother), at school, at church and in general values and attitudes. So I can speak from experience as well.
However, to be quicker I'd like to quote some more stuff from more authoritative sources than myself:
This is Claudio Naranjo from "Character and Neurosis", in the Chapter about E1, opening section:
I don't know what Naranjo is basing his deductions on, maybe he has observed people he deemed or typed to be E1, and as I said due to inaccuracies in the test, maybe some types who do not actually fit the E1 demeanor (E6s for instance) were included in the E1 lot, thereby distorting his observations towards and xSTJ-like personality. I associate E6 with Te by the way, E6 being a part of the Head triad.

Here's some other definition of E1:
Being part of the gut/body triad on the enneagram, the type 1 structure is built upon asserting one’s own existence, and for 1’s that means existing correctly. The anger of the gut triad that stands up to the world saying “I’m here! I exist!” is not dulled like with 9 nor indulged like with 8, but rather humanized. The superego takes control of the gut impulse, and so all of the gut reaction and anger gets filtered through the superego sieve. A person who is constantly bottlenecking their anger into appropriate filtered outputs will end up holding a certain kind of rigidity in the body and mind.

The gut types all have a way of using their own “body knowledge.” Heart types feel based on the environment; head types use mental processes to spin and weave thoughts; gut types already know. With type 1, that means already knowing what’s right and wrong or correct vs. incorrect in the realm of “doing/action” or Body Centre. There’s a contrast here with type 6 which can also be moralizing. 6’s always seek some kind of external support for their assertions. 1’s, as David Gray put it, “already know everything God knows.” This isn’t to suggest some kind of religious blasphemy, but to illustrate the idea that 1’s internally feel that they are the authority already without needing to justify why. Priests/Popes and Kings/Queens are good metaphors for the energy of 1 because these people in essence are supposed to be the catalyst between God himself and mankind. They are the incarnate gods on earth. Again this is metaphorically speaking to illustrate the gut knowing quality of 1 vs. the superego head processing of 6 or the image creation style of superego type 2.

This rigidity creates frustration over the fact that things around them—people, objects, situations—are not correct or at their best.
And if only others were as sensible as they, we’d be better off. This attention goes mostly to their primary instinct, either the environment/logistics, people/connections, or attraction. Some 1’s are more outwardly angry than others. Some are stiff and coiled up while others seem to have no problem lashing out. But in general, anger is directed towards what’s right or wrong and expressed in a manner that’s often morally righteous. 1’s can draw upon socially accepted rules, but can also be entirely subjective in the sense that they already just feel in their gut that they are the moral authority.

1’s do not necessarily hold being a “nice person” as an ultimate value. 6’s can have trouble being unfriendly and even when counterphobic will try to be somehow inclusive or likeable subconsciously to avoid too much separation from people. 1’s are more concerned with following their instincts on how things are supposed to be whether that upsets people or not.
They can be vengeful in the sense of “putting people in their place” in whatever way necessary. 1w2’s can be more intrusive but more friendly, whereas 1w9’s can be more detached and philosophically idealistic.

1’s value self-control in themselves and others. This can cause them to be critical of others, but more secretly very hard on themselves. They pride themselves on practising what they preach and will point out the hypocrisy of others. They generally avoid vanity because puffing oneself up that much would be inaccurate or unfair, however they can be extremely self-assured about what they feel is right. This self-control seeps down into the gut sending the message that our most indulgent desires are wrong, and it’s not okay to let loose. 1’s definitely can have a fun side, but letting their hair down is still often in controlled or appropriate circumstances. Of course every 1 will have a different idea of what that means due to cultural influences, gender, upbringing, etc. At more unhealthy levels, since 1’s value their own self-control, they will observe their own desires as wrong and then fall down a rabbit hole of seeing themselves as hypocrites and becoming even more rigid as compensation.
It's not only about controlling anger, the inward cover and control covers any type of "id" or "ego" (i.e. selfish, self-serving) impulse, such as lying, cheating, violence or any other violation of others' rights. E1 consults with their "superego" to make sure they are not acting in such a way, in other words they try to act moral/ethical, which doesn't need to come from or aling with a religious text but with their own internal sense of impartiality and fairness.

The reason I chose this way is that I do not have the physical or mental constitution to go after my "id" or "ego" impulses and get away with it, I'd probably get beat up or caught or maybe was beat up and caught/shamed as a kid, which means I am not daring enough, so I must've adapted this method of survival of tempering my impulses so I would survive.

If I had a good physique and brawling skills, I would probably wouldn't care to reign in my "id" impulses and then become a happy-go-lucky E8. I can't guess why or how E9 choose to dull their impulses. Maybe due to religious upbringing they were conditioned to "ignore" their "id" impulses rather than regulating them like an "E1".
 

yeghor

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A nice compendium:

They basically all agree, though

This lady in the E1 video below, is certainly not an xSTJ.

I can identify most of what she says, and she says she has learnt to disregard the inner critical voice (meaning she has developed enough ego strength to counter her superego) and she looks in her late 20s at most.

That took me my late 30s to be able to suppress or temper my inner critic, and she looks quite comfortable, has high self-esteem and is not that much self-conscious in the video so I suspect she might be an extravert and hence an ENFJ, which in my own understanding would mean her highest score is E3 (charisma) followed by E1 (inner critic/rules).

I guess she were able to do that earlier than I did because she is better looking, which must've given her positive feedback from the external world enough to strengthen her ego against her superego (inner critic). In E1s, inner critic remains the strongest component for quite longer than that.

At 9:45 note that she says people ask her how she is so aesthetic, which reinforces the possibility that she is an F-dom.

E1 example - Emma Green

Doesn't she look like this lady from the Tv Series IT Crowd, whom I believe is an ENFJ?

Have you heard guided by voices - Jen - IT Crowd
 

mancino

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Maybe you'll also find this interesting:
 

yeghor

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Maybe you'll also find this interesting:

This perfectionism thing is a misnomer. Sounds as it E1s are pompous types who are trying hard to have the best look or clothes or something. It is rather a desire for optimization of ones mind, body and living conditions. I don't feel the need to be perfect anymore, I just need to be better in areas that I am lacking to the point that I am capable of, and to my satisfaction.

I don't need to be better than others either. I don't need to outdo them, I just need to outdo myself. I won't feel bad if I didn't come in the firstplace in a race, I will feel good if I gave my all to the effort and finished it close to my predicted time.

If I make a mistake, I'll try to find the root cause and try to make sure I don't repeat it. That is what optimization is. Not perfectionism.

Because superego demolishes all ego defenses, E1s, having an overdeveloped ego, cannot deceive themselves and cut themselves a slack. That's why, I can't help but noticing when other people are also deceiving themselves, which to me indicates a lack of self-awareness cause you cannot be self-aware and deceive yourself or hide things from yourself at the same time.

So I have a habit of trying to make people around me self-conscious so that they can also become aware of their deficiencies and improve themselves and become less aggressive and volatile for other people's sake. I believe the root cause of all the conflicts and problems and suffering in the world is due to individuals' lack of awareness. Only by raising individuals' self-awareness the world can turn into a more peaceful and sustainable place.

I usually do that by reminding them about the proper way to act if it is very obvious or just by asking certain questions to them to make them ponder on so that they can develop the habit to question themselves and their actions. However, some people are so accustomed to hiding behind their walls and deceiving themselves, they simply do not want to become self aware, get offended or outright become hostile.

Still, I don't know how these people are writing these descriptions and based on what observations, they keep defining SJs. If the descriptions are based on their observing people they incorrectly deemed or typed as E1, they would of course be skewed. The problem is personality systems are so loosely defined and reliant on subjective interpretation it is impossible to verify accuracy of someone's typing, short of scanning people's brain and then devising a way to associate the scans with the personality types.
 

draon9

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Enneagram
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Instinctual Variant
so
ones are basically not moralist stereotypically
 

yeghor

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ones are basically not moralist stereotypically
More like advocates of self-awareness. Morality/ethics then comes as a consequence of it when an individual works on and develop their self-awareness.

It thrn becomes not an externally enforced but an internally generated morality.
 

mancino

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@yeghor , thanks for sharing how it feels like to be an E1. It's quite insightful. I can feel you had to work on yourself a lot to find both self-awareness and peace.
It's infrequent to find such a clear E1 inner monologue here on TC.

This perfectionism thing is a misnomer. Sounds as it E1s are pompous types who are trying hard to have the best look or clothes or something. It is rather a desire for optimization of ones mind, body and living conditions. I don't feel the need to be perfect anymore, I just need to be better in areas that I am lacking to the point that I am capable of, and to my satisfaction.
"Perfectionism" is ambiguous, yes.
"I just need need to be perfect and to do my best" is pretty much "The need to be good, to avoid mistakes" which is the core desire for E1 in pretty much all sources

Not really. Read some description and you'll see. For example, 1s are said to not be capable of promoting themselves (one main difference from E3). So quite image unconscious.

If I make a mistake, I'll try to find the root cause and try to make sure I don't repeat it. That is what optimization is. Not perfectionism.
Again, avoiding mistakes (especially moral ones) is straightforward E1. I don't see any contradiction with Riso-Hudson, Chestnut or Naranjo, nor typical web sources (oceanmoonshine, typology triad)

So I have a habit of trying to make people around me self-conscious so that they can also become aware of their deficiencies and improve themselves and become less aggressive and volatile for other people's sake
"Reformer" comes to mind.

From the link to the compendium I shared:

Reformer, Diligence... Richard Rohr says "Principles"... all facets of the same fixation.
Of course Ego-Resent or Angry Virtue are less flattering, but Ichazo and Naranjo are harsh with everybody.

some people are so accustomed to hiding behind their walls and deceiving themselves, they simply do not want to become self aware, get offended or outright become hostile.
Again, stereotypical issue in E1 lives.


I can just add a suggestion: remember, the Enneagram is not about finding your type, is about TRANSCENDING it.
If you haven't (but maybe you already did), read either "The Wisdom of the Enneagram" by R&H or "The Complete Enneagram" by Chestnut: they all offer practical suggestions to overcome one's fixation, for any type, because we're all compulsive in a way.
 

mancino

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More like advocates of self-awareness. Morality/ethics then comes as a consequence of it when an individual works on and develop their self-awareness.

It thrn becomes not an externally enforced but an internally generated morality.
More than a matter of semantics, it depends on the person's level of health. Most people are not very healthy: that's true for any type, and it's not me saying it either. Most spiritual schools agree that we go about life half-asleep.

These are R&H about level of health for E1: see how labels change according to a changing spiritual development. Some are quite nasty - again, it's the same for every type. IMHO it really captures the full spectrum. Surely the E1 I know IRL fit perfectly.

TYPE 1: LEVELS OF DEVELOPMENT


HEALTHY LEVELS
Level 1:
Key Terms: Accepting, Wise
Ones let go of the belief that they are in a position to judge anything objectively and are able to approach life without emotionally reacting to it. They also paradoxically achieve their Basic Desire—to have integrity and to be good. As a result of their self-actualization, they become wise, discerning, accepting, hopeful, and often noble.
Level 2:
Key Terms: Evaluating, Reasonable
Ones focus on the dictates of their superegos to guide them in life and defend them from the “disordered” parts of themselves. Self-image: “I am sensible, moderate, and objective.”
Level 3:
Key Terms: Principled, Responsible
Ones reinforce their self-image by trying to live their lives in accordance with their consciences and with reason. They are highly ethical and self-disciplined and possess a strong sense of purpose and conviction. Truthful and articulate, they teach by example, putting aside personal desires for the greater good.

AVERAGE LEVELS
Level 4:
Key Terms: Obligated, Striving
Ones begin to fear that others are indifferent to their principles, so they want to convince others of the rightness of their viewpoint. They become serious and driven, debating others and remedying problems, while evaluating their world and pointing out what is wrong with things.
Level 5:
Key Terms: Self-Controlled, Orderly
Ones worry that others will condemn them for any deviation from their ideals. Having argued their point of view, Ones are now obliged to live up to it at all times, so they try to rigorously organize themselves and their world. They are punctual and methodical but also irritable and tense.
Level 6:
Key Terms: Judgmental, Critical
Ones are afraid that others will mess up the order and balance that they have achieved and they are angry that others do not take their ideals as seriously. They react by reproaching and correcting others for not living up to their own standards. They are perfectionistic, opinionated, and sarcastic.

UNHEALTHY LEVELS
Level 7:
Key Terms: Self-Righteous, Inflexible
Ones fear that their ideals may actually be wrong, which may be true. To save their self-image, they attempt to justify themselves and silence criticism. They are closed-minded and allow no compromises or negotiations in their positions. They are bitter, misanthropic, and highly self-righteous.
Level 8:
Key Terms: Obsessive, Contradictory
Ones are so desperate to defend themselves from their irrational desires and impulses that they become obsessed with the very parts of themselves they want to control. They begin to act out all of their repressed desires while publicly continuing to condemn them. They cannot stop themselves.
Level 9:
Key Terms: Condemnatory, Punitive
The realization that they have lost control of themselves and are doing the very things they cannot tolerate in others is too much for unhealthy Ones. They try to rid themselves of the apparent cause of their obsessions in themselves, others, or the environment, possibly resulting in self-mutilation, murder, or suicide.
 

yeghor

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I can just add a suggestion: remember, the Enneagram is not about finding your type, is about TRANSCENDING it.
If you haven't (but maybe you already did), read either "The Wisdom of the Enneagram" by R&H or "The Complete Enneagram" by Chestnut: they all offer practical suggestions to overcome one's fixation, for any type, because we're all compulsive in a way.

I associate E1 with Ni and E7 with Ne. The model suggests E1 goes to E7 when relaxed, meaning Ni-dom becomes goofy and cheerful like an Ne-dom when happy/relaxed. In other words E1 coming out of its shell. I see Ni as suppressed/withdrawn/submerged Ne.

I sometimes choose to do the wrong thing or not make amends for my mistakes, and act selfishly and suppress my inner critic and try to be content with it. The experience then gives me more insight into people who act like that regularly, their motivations and self-justifications. It also makes me a bit more wiser to their methods.

As for health levels, I think I fluctuate beet level 4 and 6 depending on my mood.

Thanks for the suggestions, I found a long youtube video by Beatrice Chestnut, will look into it.
 

mancino

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Yeah, the E1-E7 connection is so true, although mind boggling at first.
I do have my E1-side, and when stressed can even look like one to a casual observer. I believe it can explain my difficulties finding my true J/P preference. Remember: I had an E1 upbringing.

But make no mistake: I'm all in for the mental stimulation of it! (even right here, right now). I don't have stable moral principles that rule my life; I'm a nice guy, yes, but I recognize myself in most of the stereotypical E7 traits at the core, the good, the bad and the ugly.
When E7 doesn't do the job (I mean, get me what I want) then I use different strategies, and E1 is definitely one of them, although it can easily be explained like an E6 wing, with sp instinct (warmth: repress anger) or social (duty: rational and dutiful)... but the core is always to be free to do what I want and pursue "happiness", whatever that is.

You can watch Richard Rohr, tons of videos of him on YouTube: he's an Enneagram teacher, self-proclaimed 1 and shows a lot this E7 connection, "laughing at the silliness of it all" I believe he says.
 

yeghor

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You can watch Richard Rohr, tons of videos of him on YouTube: he's an Enneagram teacher, self-proclaimed 1 and shows a lot this E7 connection, "laughing at the silliness of it all" I believe he says.

I am watching on youtube "Contemplative Vision: Presentation One, Richard Rohr", I am 7 minutes into the video and I notice that his focus is not on himself but on the audience. I think he is an ExFJ, probably an ENFJ.

This preachiness to spread the awareness to help people feels more like an enneagram 3w2 demeanor, he probably also has a strong enneagram 1 demeanor, making him explore other scriptures and works outside of Christianity to formulate a more universal sense of internalized spirituality, morality and ethics.

I'll comment some more when I've finished the video.
 

mancino

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Part 1 of a 4-part 6-hour workshop.

I agree ENFJ, the born Teacher.
1w2 though, I'd trust him on himself!
 

yeghor

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Part 1 of a 4-part 6-hour workshop.

I agree ENFJ, the born Teacher.
1w2 though, I'd trust him on himself!
That video is too long so I won't be able to watch it.

However, I finished watching "Contemplative Vision: Presentation One, Richard Rohr". I am now inclined more towards ESFJ and enneagram 3w2 or 2w3 for him cause his understanding of morality and spirituality is too fixated on christian scripture and is anecdotal/literal though he is trying to expand on it but he still keeps coming back to it, which constrains his understanding. I also was a bit put off by how he sometimes knocks on the table to make a point, there's some veiled aggression/tension in his body language and in his gaze, he has a harsh/piercing gaze.

An ENFJ is closer to someone like Alan Watts who started as a Christian preacher but then moved on to eastern spirituality and tried to form a universal spirituality by trying to distill the essential components of both. Still I think Watts wasn't an E1 either but some other type with a high E1 preference.

To me an E1 spritiuality/morality is much more concerned with universal/essential values/components of spritiuality/morality regardless of any tradition or scripture or circumstance. I can relate much more to the belowgiven modes of spiritiuality for instance:

Carl Sagan: We Humans Are Capable Of Greatness

Contact (movie) Jodie Foster Speech at Final Hearing

Contact (movie 1997) - The pursuit of truth (E1s want to find out the true essence of things)
 

mancino

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Well, ESFJ could be too.

But E1 Is almost a given: I mean, do we really think we know better than the guy himself about his own type? Come on...
 

mancino

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I also was a bit put off by how he sometimes knocks on the table to make a point, there's some veiled aggression/tension in his body language and in his gaze, he has a harsh/piercing gaze.
stereotypically E1
 

mancino

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To me an E1 spritiuality/morality is much more concerned with universal/essential values/components of spritiuality/morality regardless of any tradition or scripture or circumstance
That's your vision, which is totally fine of course! But you shouldn't limit your view on E1 as a type with your own experience of E1 as your own core. Any type is an Archetype; any individual is a specific, idiosyncratic incarnation of the type, with traits outside of type.
As an example, what spirituality/morality is for a E1 can be, at the core, different from person to person, and one can be on the fringes of the type.
This is the case, for example, if you type as a E1 with MBTI "Feeling" in an otherwise majority of MBTI "thinking" E1s.
 
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