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[Traditional Enneagram] You know you're a type 9 when...

hecait

New member
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
23
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w1
I always used to test as type 5, 6, and sometimes 4.

I'm very mild-mannered and indecisive, but have a quiet will of iron. Emotional outbursts or any form of confrontation make me very uncomfortable and I go mute, since I prefer to quietly adapt to whatever situation or person I am dealing with. But, since socializing is exhausting for me, I tend to keep to myself anyway.
 

Noll

New member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
705
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp
When you really don't know.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,044
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
[MENTION=24321]DreamBeliever[/MENTION], you sound a little like an empath. Do E9s tend to be quite empathetic? The only thing on your list that I'm not sure fits me is 'becoming different people around others'. I communicate differently depending on the person and get a different feeling in my gut, but there is also a way I cannot fundamentally change for anyone. I do feel like a ghost most of my life that sees what is inside more clearly than the outside. The feeling people give me in my gut isn't always a reflection of their communication style, like there are a few very dominant people I know with narcisstic tendencies who are hypersensitive to self, but rather numb to others, and they make me go blank inside, even when they are being aggressive.

I can identify with a lot of what you have on the list. E9 and E4 are the two that feel the closest to me. I really cannot tolerate conflict.
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
5,517
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
953
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
When you know you're not indecisive, despite others seeing you that way. You just need everything sorted straight in your head, all options reviewed and mulled over before making a heavy decision

I would argue that that is a Ti/Fi trait, not a 9 trait.
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,924
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
When something bad happens and you just keep waiting for the emotional bomb to drop, and then being glad when it never really does.

And driving everyone crazy with the tense, on edge, even if nothing more happens you're going to make the situation worse anyway, expectation. That's what my ENFJ 9 has a tendency to do.

200_s.gif
 

Frosty

Poking the poodle
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
12,663
Instinctual Variant
sp
And driving everyone crazy with the tense, on edge, even if nothing more happens you're going to make the situation worse anyway, expectation. That's what my ENFJ 9 has a tendency to do.

200_s.gif

Hm for me its more like the thought of any conflict is viewed as a sort of uncomfortable intrustion. I want to repress the idea of what could happen, but reality repeatedly comes knocking and I cannot fully ignore it, especially if consequences are inevitable. But I so do not want to engage in conflict, so I put it into sort of a limbo. I'll pussyfoot around it, hoping to connect enough to solve the issue without causing what I believe to be unneccesary drama. But yeah that pisses people off.

I've heard it called evasive and sneaky, as it is sort of unintentionally passive aggressive. Must be difficult for the other person to always have to initiate and look like the bad guy. As a general rule though I do not try to do this often, only when it seems as if the consequences for the conflict are out of my hands and I know that it cannot be avoided.
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,924
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Hm for me its more like the thought of any conflict is viewed as a sort of uncomfortable intrustion. I want to repress the idea of what could happen, but reality repeatedly comes knocking and I cannot fully ignore it, especially if consequences are inevitable. But I so do not want to engage in conflict, so I put it into sort of a limbo. I'll pussyfoot around it, hoping to connect enough to solve the issue without causing what I believe to be unneccesary drama. But yeah that pisses people off.

I've heard it called evasive and sneaky, as it is sort of unintentionally passive aggressive. Must be difficult for the other person to always have to initiate and look like the bad guy. As a general rule though I do not try to do this often, only when it seems as if the consequences for the conflict are out of my hands and I know that it cannot be avoided.

My policy is generally to get things out on the table and not let things build up. I can't pretend I understand this conflict avoidance because I don't see getting issues out and talking about them as conflict. I'm sure you can see how it would get old to always have to be the person who starts the conversations that have conflict possibility because others won't or can't. And I don't really know if conflict avoidant people see how much conflict they actually cause by putting so much energy into wiggling out of what they don't want to deal with.
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
5,517
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
953
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
My policy is generally to get things out on the table and not let things build up. I can't pretend I understand this conflict avoidance because I don't see getting issues out and talking about them as conflict. I'm sure you can see how it would get old to always have to be the person who starts the conversations that have conflict possibility because others won't or can't. And I don't really know if conflict avoidant people see how much conflict they actually cause by putting so much energy into wiggling out of what they don't want to deal with.

What I think happens with us e9s is that we unconsciously learn early on that "getting things out in the open" is unhelpful. That isn't true, of course, but that's what Enneagram is about: the stupid lessons that we learned based on very early experiences. Those lessons are so ingrained, we often are unaware that they're being applied in the here and now.

As an INTJ e9, the e9 side gets reinforced even in the present day. Always and everywhere, people object to my more INTJ-ish observations, because those observations completely contradict what they "know" to be true. People don't react well to that, at all, and will inform me that the problem is, of course, with me, since they find no value in my observations. So there is a constant message to INTJs that we shouldn't speak up, and while e8 and e1 INTJs will instinctively reject such messages, those with an e9 fix will tend to absorb them.

What makes a difference is how much experience I have in dealing with such things. In work situations, early on I was easily intimidated, but with experience I figured out how to be forceful (very forceful) in a very gentle e9 way. Being aware that facts can offend people, phrasing them in such a way that they lose their emotional impact and aren't used as a rhetorical hammer actually makes them more forceful, as then the readers/listeners will absorb them without attaching the personal meanings to them that make them easy to reject.

In personal relationships, this is much more difficult, as I don't have as much personal experience in that regard, and removing the personal elements is essentially impossible. Therefore, if I cannot figure out how to phrase things in such a way as to get those with whom I am intimate to listen, I'm stuck. If I say something, I might end a relationship that is otherwise quite strong: there are some things not worth fighting over. But as you've already noted, that's a real problem: if I cannot say something and be heard by the other person, is that really a good relationship?

This isn't to provide excuses as to why e9s do it. You are clearly correct and facing things head on (without going overboard as an e8 or e1 might) is the correct path. Rather it is to point out the unconscious reasoning behind e9 behavior: in our early experiences, arguments and confrontation rarely concluded with favorable results.
 

Frosty

Poking the poodle
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
12,663
Instinctual Variant
sp
I don't really like being a type 9 all that much. I never really feel as if I am really as awake as everyone else is, as there. I can be in the middle of a conversation with someone and just have none of it register at all, I can be thinking of an idea and have trouble rounding out all the specifics that I would like to, and development of anything is hard.

Other people seem to at least know what they want, have deep set personalities and passions, while I just feel like running water. Convenient and flexible, can take on many shapes and forms, but nothing much really there-at the end of the day nothing distinguishing.

98% of the time I am in a conversation with someone I am really of in my own head-and the flow of what I would like to say just gets jumbled. It doesn't translate how I would like it to, so I just end up not speaking at all.
 

indra

is
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
1,413
MBTI Type
jedi
Enneagram
8
I don't really like being a type 9 all that much. I never really feel as if I am really as awake as everyone else is, as there. I can be in the middle of a conversation with someone and just have none of it register at all, I can be thinking of an idea and have trouble rounding out all the specifics that I would like to, and development of anything is hard.

Other people seem to at least know what they want, have deep set personalities and passions, while I just feel like running water. Convenient and flexible, can take on many shapes and forms, but nothing much really there-at the end of the day nothing distinguishing.

98% of the time I am in a conversation with someone I am really of in my own head-and the flow of what I would like to say just gets jumbled. It doesn't translate how I would like it to, so I just end up not speaking at all.

Is any of this really a problem?

Asking as someone who relates.
 

Frosty

Poking the poodle
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
12,663
Instinctual Variant
sp
Is any of this really a problem?

Asking as someone who relates.


I mean generally no, but occasionally yes. While it is certainly easier for me to flow through life generally unaffected, sometimes a certain amount of passion would not necessarily be amiss. It adds a certain amount of...flavor, that occasionally I think I might be missing out on.

But no, I dont really hate being a 9. It is my general state of being, and I don't know... Hating what is natural just seems like a waste unless you are doing so to achieve some sort of foreward personal development.

But yeah sometimes it is odd to almost feel as if you are watching a scene that you are participating in, in sort of a 3rd person perspective. Like you are dividing your attention between what is actually going on, what you are thinking and dissecting about what is going on, and whatever unrelated/semi-related interest that might be trying to make it's presence known. It might be nice to be as fully present in something as I would like to be-to not always be at the will of whatever in showing any sort of capability.
 

Haven

Blind Guardian
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
1,075
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
2w3
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
When suffering through it looks a lot more appealing than doing something about it.

If you feel like you're a lot closer to people than you actually are
 

Piercie

New member
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
39
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Holy shit, I was convinced I was a 3w4, but I am now totally considering 9w8... I fit perfectly... I also fit with 3w4 VERY well... How can I tell?
 

Lady Lazarus

Permabanned
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
2,147
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Emptiness, the grief that lovers feel.
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Most 9 descriptiond have a w1 bias. And most self identified 9s are also w1s.

9w8s just dont belong in those descriptions.

Yes! I'm tired of being accused of not being a darn 9 because I have a backbone. People seem to be threatened at the concept of a 9w8. We aren't going to be spineless and still next to the 8s, it's ridiculous.
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Important Announcement: All these supposed 9w1s that don't feel angry are integrated 6s. The 9w1's secondary vice is wrath and they are very aware of it.
 

Mind Maverick

ENTP 8w7 845 Sp/Sx
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,770
Your roomates steal your food and you don't even get angry, just go get yourself something else to eat and change the storage location of future food (hide your shit) because it's more preferable than actually asserting yourself since it would probably create conflict or tension--or when you do speak up about it, you do it in a way that is smiling, too passive, and making some pretty assholeish jokes...then you get alone and you are bothered by your own ridiculousness, and eventually you get sick of everything and become aggressive, then feel bad about that and revert to being passive.

...or alternatively, you just calmly and politely say something and hope to god they fucking respond to the gentle method and you don't have to go any further.



If you feel like you're a lot closer to people than you actually are
x2


You tell someone "hold on" and then never actually return to the conversation because you don't want to, but also don't want to say no.


You see yourself as too aggressive when even the person it was directed towards tells you that you were perfectly justified or fair.


When you were growing up your parent(s) criticized you for only standing up for yourself when you're angry (or rather, doing it through anger and thus with excessive and unnecessary force by the time you do), and lectured you about what a faulty approach this is in life.

When you were growing up your parent(s) criticized you for holding everything in, building up, things accumulating, til you finally explode...as opposed to simply asserting or communicating in a calm, sensible, rational, and logical manner...that it's like a can under pressure, eventually it pops, but communicating and asserting things lets out some of the pressure and prevents the explosion.



You reframe things that happen so that you won't become bothered by them, sometimes even down to the most ridiculous things like examining the pros of [Option B] and cons of [Option A] so that you won't become annoyed that you have to go with it despite preferring [Option A] originally (but now you don't really care because you reframed it and either one is fine, you have no preference any longer) as long as the inner waters aren't stirred then it's all good, nothing matters.
However, that's probably something you do if you're a T9, since Ts make their decisions / weigh things according to pros and cons more, while Fs do it according to subjective preferences or values.

But either way...




You become dissociated and dysfunctional, but play songs like this to help you face the bullshit you've been paralyzed from and unable to face for months...or maybe it's years...

 

Mind Maverick

ENTP 8w7 845 Sp/Sx
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,770
Important Announcement: All these supposed 9w1s that don't feel angry are integrated 6s. The 9w1's secondary vice is wrath and they are very aware of it.
Is this actually a joke I'm not getting? Because it's false. One of 9's core defining traits is a lack of awareness of their anger, with 9w8s being more aware than 9w1s generally.
 
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